Solace

I have a new design.

Based on Bob Baron's Avanti 60 inboard foam wing panel, Doug Moon's Nats Boltin Bear, John Miller's (Joebellcrank) Dr. Majik (tail profile), and the rest is me. I plan on starting the plane as soon as I get with the laser cutter. I already spoke to Dixon about the foam cores.

I will be using Ozcover on most of the plane and Dixon's "kept foam method". Should build and finish very fast and light.

PDF of first version available here.

Http://www.egpworld.com/ultrahobby/download/solace.pdf

>I have a new design.

I haven't calculated anything, but just an observation - looks to have the CLA pretty far forward.

>>I have a new design.
>
>
> I haven't calculated anything, but just an observation -
>looks to have the CLA pretty far forward.
>
> Brett

CLA? Help?

>>>I have a new design.
>>
>>
>> I haven't calculated anything, but just an observation -
>>looks to have the CLA pretty far forward.
>>
>> Brett
>
>CLA? Help?

Center of lateral area - i.e. the CP in the side view. It's probably fine, but that much area in front of the CG may not provide a lot of yaw restoring force/low yaw bandwith. Of course, I don't know what you are shooting for in terms of that, or the prop/engine. .015 or .o14 solids should be far enough away, but .018, I don't know.

Of course this is all eyeballed from the picture and based on previous cut-and-try, so it's not exactly rocket science.

>>>>I have a new design.
>>>
>>>
>>> I haven't calculated anything, but just an observation -
>>>looks to have the CLA pretty far forward.
>>>
>>> Brett
>>
>>CLA? Help?
>
> Center of lateral area - i.e. the CP in the side view.
>It's probably fine, but that much area in front of the CG
>may not provide a lot of yaw restoring force/low yaw
>bandwith. Of course, I don't know what you are shooting for
>in terms of that, or the prop/engine. .015 or .o14 solids
>should be far enough away, but .018, I don't know.

The side area is based on Doug's plane. I have seen that plane fly in 25 MPH winds going nearly 6.0 laps and do a Top 5 pattern.

What do you use for your center when calculating lateral area?

'zilla,

Take if from me, listen to Brett on this.

I have posted some pictures of my foam wing cutting activity. I don't have all of the pictures of the Kept Wing Process because, Jose's got most of my stuff. But, I cut my own wings, use mostly Dixon's "Kept Foam Wing" process, and use Oracover or what was Carl Goldberg's brand of film, which I believe was the same thing.
There is a flyer here in Socal that owns Tom's Dixon's Avanti, and I have seen it fly a number of times. Needless to say, the late Bob Baron knew what he was doing, and the Avanti wing should make for a good wing from which to build a competitve platform around.
As to the rest of the plane, I have seen Brett Buck's "Infinity" in action. Do whatever he says!!

>As to the rest of the plane, I have seen Brett Buck's
>"Infinity" in action. Do whatever he says!!

I am trying.

I was wondering if the wing being forward changes the CLA?

Plane looks good.

Where did you get that CAD drawing of the motor?

Also how do you do your lettering and arrows on your plans? What commands.

>
>Plane looks good.
>
>Where did you get that CAD drawing of the motor?

Larry Cunningham posted it on the PAMPA web site I think. I drew the pipe and header. It matches yours.

>Also how do you do your lettering and arrows on your plans?
>What commands.

Leader command.

Also type "toolbar" and turn on the dimension toolbar. It is very useful. I keep it on the right side of my screen all the time. The leader command button looks like a leader.

To find the center of lateral area, simply cut out a thin cardboard profile of the entire model, put on two landing gear covers and wheels since there are two of them, same with twin rudders if they are used etc. and then balance it on a pin to find the CLA. This was considered a semi critical item when designing free flight models. One could influence spiral stability greatly with this. An old Charles H. Grant theory. Only thing is I can't tell you where you might want it on a control line model.

Don (ex free flighter)

>To find the center of lateral area, simply cut out a thin
>cardboard profile of the entire model, put on two landing
>gear covers and wheels since there are two of them, same
>with twin rudders if they are used etc. and then balance it
>on a pin to find the CLA.

Only thing is I can't tell you where you
>might want it on a control line model.

I can find the center of area quickly with CAD.

I too do not know where the center should be located for "proven performance". In this case I rely on other designs.

While it may appear the side area is great in the front of the wing compared to aft of the wing, one must remeber the nose length is not the standard 10" that is so common in 2 stroke stunt designs. The final nose moment for the low aspect version will be 8.75".

Currently Doug's Nats plane runs the CG at about 29%. The large tail surface easily supports the extremely aft CG, and I believe this aft CG is one of the main reasons the airplane is so capable of hard controlled turns even in hard winds (right Ted?). The design CG of the Solace is 27%.

HI Brad

Bob Baron told me his 60 Avanti , was just a Pattern master with a new rudder \ canopy. Mike Rodgers told me that also. Maybe it would help to just build the PM with your canopy and rudder? It would assure you of not having to reinvent and re fiqure. Or at least use the same formulas and percentages for the matrix of your new ship . Food for thought?

Regards

>HI Brad
>
>Bob Baron told me his 60 Avanti , was just a Pattern
>master with a new rudder \ canopy. Mike Rodgers told me that
>also.

It is not a PM. I have the plans. The wing is similar.

The PM is larger and has a higher aspect ratio.

The Time Machine is a 90% PM.

I do not stray to far from the base PM. I think there is no need for such a large wing.

These designs are now becoming my own. Trim and setup are different than the original ships, as they are not set up to work best with the high pitch ST 60.

I'm wondering why you don't move the hinge points on the flaps to the points where the angled 'ribs' meet at the leading edge of the flap. Or vice versa.

Seems to me it would just make sense to put the hinge tab into a slot in the flap core where there was the most meat. And also have those 'ribs' pivit about their leading edge connections.

Hard to explain but some things just seem to feel sensible in my mind when visualizing stresses runnning through a structure.