How Strong Does Big Mig start up .061 run

I am thinking about buying a Norvel .061 Big Mig Start up engine. Does anyone own one that can tell me how strong they run? Do they turn a 7-3 prop how fast will the turn a 6-3 or a 7-3 prop. does anyone know. For that matter any size prop and the RPM. How do they compare to a cox sure start .049 engine

I have not tried that large a prop but from what I've read from those who did, the fuel draw suffers greatly. These engines like to rev and a 6x3 is as large as I've used. Many prefer a 6x2 or 5.5x3.
If you use a 7" prop on the Cox, you might want to use the Texaco head.
When you get it up on the power curve, the Big Mig .061 is more powerful than ANY Cox .049. Remember you are comparing an .061 to an .049 also.

Good luck.
George

When you get it up on the power curve, the Big Mig .061 is
>more powerful than ANY Cox .049. Remember you are comparing
>an .061 to an .049 also.
>
>Good luck.
>George

Ron B.
F4Fguy

The Big Mig .049 is more powerful than any reed valve C*X.

I have tried a 6x3 prop on my engine. It is very fast and about twice the speed of a cox .049 engine. Most people fly a cox .049 on 35 ft lines this is not a good plan for a Norvel engine it will do 75 MPH and screw you into the ground on 35 ft lines. I have flown my airplane on 50 ft lines and 60 ft lines too. I tried a 3 blade prop 5x3 it slowed the airplane down a little but not much. Sense 3 pitch is 75 mph I am guessing a prop with a pitch of 2 would slow it down to about 50 mph. Try a 6x2 or 7x2 prop.

It is a great engine, break it in properly.
Mine has over 250 flights on it.
15%N/20%oil-70Syn-30Castor or 80S/20C.
I use a 6x2 APC, let it rev, they dont "lug"
Galbraeth Head/Nelson plug, 2 head shims, launches at 23,000+. 121/2 oz Baby Pathfinder flies 3.9 sec laps using 46' eye to eye .012 lines and a L. Renger handle (great for 1/2A flying).
Had a 1/2A Stilletto with a Cox .051 and it was "doggy", changed to the Norvel and it was a new plane. It is a great combo with the 1/2A Pathfinder. Will fly engine on a Bob Baron barecat when the hurricanes leave our area.

The Big Mig 061 is a powerful engine. Mine was so tight with cylinder taper that it wouldn't turn over out of the box. What to do?
I heated the cylinder with a hair dryer and when it was good and hot it would turn over. So I started it while still hot from the hair dryer. After a few runs, the fit was perfect and cold starting was easy.

Floyd,

RE: tight fit BigMig 06... An interesting note:-- Break-in instructions for the Brodak 40 urge NOT turning it through top dead center cold, particularly when NIB! (Of course, the B40 is AAC -- aluminum sleeve and piston, sleeve chromed.)

Instead, recommendation is to prime and start it on a bench or in a plane. Running it so it heats rapidly to intended running temperatures allows the deliberate taper to 'polish-in' its correct fit at designed clearances.

Whatever the material the NorVel sleeve is made from, the built-in taper is there to give design clearances at running temperatures. The Brodak's aluminum sleeve may be more susceptible to 'galling' (a nasty thing that aluminum pieces do to each other under load and pressure) than NorVel's black ceramic, but the piston is still an aluminum alloy.

As you note, the BigMig's fit seems to free up after a few runs. And as the others commented, let this one really wind up. It's built for that...

> Mine was so tight
>with cylinder taper that it wouldn't turn over out of the
>box.
>
>Floyd

These engines will not turn over unless you put fuel in the cylinder. Even with fuel in the cylinder you can not turn it over if you turn the propeller slow by hand. You have to turn the propeller fast and it will turn over easy. The piston diameter is larger than the cylinder bore. If you turn the propeller slow the luberication squishes out and you have metal piston rubbing against the metal cylinder wall and it will lock up. If you turn the propeller fast the lubercation does not have time to squish out and it will turn very easy.

Thanks for the input. I have always owned reed valve .049 engines or Mc Coy .049's, when I fly them they never seem to have enough power to do stunts. I have always had to use short lines say 25' = 30' to be able to hold any tention on the lines. With the big Mig .061 Start Up, with 40' = 50' lines is there enough tention to control plane properly?

Read the instructions if you get one new. Or check out the web site.
It says if new to put a heavy oil in the bore, and flip it 100 times before you ever try to start it.

I had a Cox .049 on a very heavy Stunt Chimp. I got the engine tank that Norvel makes for a .061 and it bolts up in the same holes as a Cox .049. The plane will now take off and goes straight up into a wing over if I want.
It is now teaching me how to do loops.

Like someone said .049 vs .061.

Thanks
Paul

With the big Mig .061 Start Up, with 40' = 50'
>lines is there enough tention to control plane properly?

One of our guys does overhead eights and the cloverleaf easily with a Sig Skyray, BigMig 061, and 42' .008 lines. Quite a sight.

I'm very interested in the responses to this thread, too. I have a pair of AME .061s (one is a RevLite) and an AME .049. I've only tried to start one AME .061 (on the HexDrome with which it came), and with a total lack of success.

With the starter, it just "motors". By hand, it actually pops but doesn't fire. Never has run out a prime. Stock plug; PowerMaster GMA 10/22 fuel; Tornado 7-4 prop (instructions were quite specific about sticking with that prop, although it seems the plane will be really, really fast!).

Frustrating! Maybe I need to try break-in without the muffler, ala Brodak .40 instructions . . .

I like my Norvels. I have a .061 in a brodak flite streak. I tried an old grish 7x3 on the .061 a while back and it "tamed" the engine down a little and slowed the plane down. But I like a 6x3 better because I just like how the streak flies with it, FAST and like a combat plane. Its an awesome plane to fly. The .049 is made better for flying a better speed stunt pattern. I use 42' line on all my 1/2A's
I'm building a baby pathfinder right now and putting a new .061 in it when its done.
Ryan

>I like my Norvels. I have a .061 in a brodak flite streak. I
>tried an old grish 7x3 on the .061 a while back and it
>"tamed" the engine down a little and slowed the plane down.
>But I like a 6x3 better because I just like how the streak
>flies with it, FAST and like a combat plane. Its an awesome
>plane to fly. The .049 is made better for flying a better
>speed stunt pattern. I use 42' line on all my 1/2A's
>I'm building a baby pathfinder right now and putting a new
>.061 in it when its done.
>Ryan

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Ryan:

For stunt,try a 5.75" or 6" D x 2P. You'll get more power,more thrust, and slower lap times. The 7 x 3 is too much diameter to allow the engine to develop it's full power.If you want to go faster, drop the diameter to 5" or 5.5" and use more pitch, say 3" or 4".

I'm very interested in the responses to this thread, too. I have a pair of AME .061s (one is a RevLite) and an AME .049. I've only tried to start one AME .061 (on the HexDrome with which it came), and with a total lack of success.
If you have an early "pre-Revlite" you may have a 2.0V glow plug. Norvel switched to the "Freedom" plug because many were having problems. Try the plug from the Revlite engine, OR, use a strong booster.
Remember the head on the Revlite won't conduct electricity well. You need an appropriate clip that just hooks to the glow plug.

...Tornado 7-4 prop (instructions were quite specific about sticking with that prop, although it seems the plane will be really, really fast!).
Check that you aren't using .074 instructions. My .074 calls tor a maximum 7x4 and average performance figures were with an APC 7x3.

> Remember the head on the Revlite won't conduct electricity
>well. You need an appropriate clip that just hooks to the
>glow plug.

*** This is really interesting. The AME (on the Hexdrome) works just fine with alligator clips - center post and muffler clip! The RevLite demands a plug-only connector, but fortunately will accept a Tower Quick-Connect type connector (which won't fit on the AME)! A Dubro Clip won't work on the Revlite. What in the world can the cylinder be made of that it won't conduct electricity ??!

>
> ...Tornado 7-4 prop (instructions were quite specific
>about sticking with that prop, although it seems the plane
>will be really, really fast!).
> Check that you aren't using .074 instructions. My .074
>calls tor a maximum 7x4 and average performance figures were
>with an APC 7x3.

** Using PowerMaster 10-22 both the AME and RevLite .061s turn the Tornado 7-4 at around 16K+ with muffler. I hope to fly both later today. Results posted later, too.

A Dubro Clip won't work on the
>Revlite. What in the world can the cylinder be made of that
>it won't conduct electricity ??!

The "Revlite" system is A/A/AL2O3-aluminum piston,aluminum cylinder,aluminum oxide (anodized) coating. Aluminum oxide is a non-conductor.

>** Using PowerMaster 10-22 both the AME and RevLite .061s
>turn the Tornado 7-4 at around 16K+ with muffler. I hope to
>fly both later today. Results posted later, too.

Calibrate your tachometer! In any case that's too much prop diameter for either engine, especially the AME.The Big Mig should turn about 17,200 with a 6-3 and 18-20,000 with a 5.75 or 6.0-2,depending on nitro content of the fuel. Also,the AME should be run on pressure,and the Big Mig will run better on muffler pressure.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Ralph,

>A Dubro Clip won't work on the
>Revlite. What in the world can the cylinder be made of that
>it won't conduct electricity ??!

The "revlite" cylinders are coated completely inside and outside with
a non-conductive coating which may be a type of anodising. This is both the running surface of the liner and the outside cylinder coating. We use cox type plug connectors, and R/C car glow connectors quite successfully.

This is really interesting. The AME (on the Hexdrome) works just fine with alligator clips - center post and muffler clip! The RevLite demands a plug-only connector, but fortunately will accept a Tower Quick-Connect type connector (which won't fit on the AME)! A Dubro Clip won't work on the Revlite. What in the world can the cylinder be made of that it won't conduct electricity ??!

The Revlite questions have been answered. As for the AME on the Hexdrome, it does not have the aluminum oxide so the cylinder is conductive. The early plugs required more power to operate. When Norvel switched to the "Freedom" plug, they made the element to start with a standard booster AND they made a new head that would accept a glow driver. The Freedom plug requires the new head. I would suggest you get a Freedom plug and the appropriate head if you want to use the plug-on glow driver.
As mentiioned previously, the Cox connector fits both.

Good luck,
George

Thanks for the explanations, everyone! This has been a real "learning experience". I'm impressed with the performance of the NorVel engines! No one has reported a truly negative opinion/experience. These are really neat powerplants.

Couldn't fly today because of wind/rain and generally wierd weather, but I'm looking forward to flying these things.

We have one on a Ron B scratch built Spitfire and it flys like wild fire!!!
We have a few Cox .049's and I would not compare them to a Norvel.
The Norvel I have is not even broken in yet and it will fly circles around a Cox.
We hand launch the Spitfire and once you let it go it will take the Spitfire up and over the top in a jiffy.
It swings a 6x3, but I need to find a 5.75 size prop.

Paul

Paul,

what's the story on this Spitfire for the Norvel? Are the plans available? Sounds like a good project.

Yes, I got the plans from Ron Burns. PM me your address and I will send you a copy via snail mail.
Nice plane and good plans.
Ron Burns is a real nice guy. If you have any questions I can't answer I am sure he will.
Here are a few pics of ours.

Thanks
Paul

Hey Rootbeard,
Do you think that I might be able to get a copy of those plans, also. That looks like something fun to build and fly.

Thanks very much.

Sure. PM your address.
But please know that this is not my design.
Ron Burns is Da-Man.

I will have to get some copies of the plans made. It might take me a few days to get them copied.

Paul

First off nice looking 1/2A plane I too would be interested in the plans, I wanted to just mention I have owned the Norvel engines I think basically since they first appeared on the market, the very first ones they brought out were not quite as good as what they make now, one thing maybe someone will contest me on this if you just buy the start up with the spring starter, it will turn the engine fast enough usually to get it started on the break in with them, sounds crazy but it has worked for me. I will say I tried a big mig .061 with my tach, I live at 7,032 feet in elevation, a 6x3 comp nylon prop did about 18,000 on average, now that is pretty decent at the elevation I am at here, this was with Norvel 25% nitro fuel, I have used Norvel fuel in them since for one is a good price for 1/2 A fuel. Cox quality is downhill I think, if they would have kept up the TD was a very nice engine and I still use them to this day, also of course everyone has mentioned size and a .049 cannot match a .061 and also another thing to consider is that cox used the ball and socket type wrist pin this I beleive if I remember will not allow the engine to rev as well as a real wrist pin, overall the Norvel will serve everyone well I am shure, I feel Cox still has its place in history though and today.

Colnago
If you will PM me your address I will gladly send you a copy of the plans.
Thats a total of 3 folks, anyone one else? I just want to make one trip to the print shop. Let me know by Friday please.

Thanks
Paul

After about 15 1-2 minute runs, both the AME and RevLite .061s are achieving around 17,000 rpm with a Tornado 7-4 prop and PowerMaster 10-22. This at Sea Level, on a (rare) 80° day.

And they don't "click" at TDC anymore.