Fishing swivels

I buried a plane this weekend, lost up and down.
Can fishing swivels eliminate twisted lines? Some people say no, some maybe. What do the Pros say.
Thanks,
BobM

Unless there is something else going on, lines are still ok after a dozen loops--all the same way. My guess is something else locked up the controls.

Most here will tell you fishing swivels are a definite NO!

ANY extra pieces in the chain are potential failure points no matter how strong they may be. They also will not untwist a set of twisted lines.

Always make sure lines are CLEAN--some guys wipe with a chamois or equal as they go out to the handle, EVERY flight.

Any other signs of failure during the post-mortem?

>I buried a plane this weekend,
>lost up and down.
>Can fishing swivels eliminate twisted
>lines? Some people say no,
>some maybe. What do the
>Pros say.
>Thanks,
>BobM

I am not a pro, but I will tell you, "Absolutely not." The lines twist around themselves. Swivels won't help. In fact, they are unsafe and should not be used. Several things may be at fault here:

1. - If your lines have developed any kinks, these could bind and help lock them up (in addition to being a weak spot where the lines could break). So, if they get kinked, replace them.

2. - Your lines, also, need to be kept clean. Dirty lines will drag against one another and not only reduce your ability to control the airplane, but, also, allow them to lock up sooner. Clean them periodically. If you don't do it before every flight, do it at least every several sessions.

3. - And last, you cannot continue to twist them in one directon only or any set of lines will lock up. If you look at the way the pattern is devised, you will notice inside loops are followed by outside loops so that you should never have more than (maybe) 5 twists in your lines at any time (depends on how your turn in several maneuvers). So make sure you "undo" any twists you put in the lines while flying by doing as many outsides as insides. If you haven't yet learned to fly inverted or to do outside loops, then limit the number of insides you put on your plane in any one individual flight, and practice to learn the other maneuvers. Remember doing "eights" never adds twists to the lines. Doing loops always adds twists.

Another thing. If you are using "solids" single strand lines instead of cables , or "multi-strand" lines, you MUST thoroughly clean and wipe them down EVERY flight or they will bind up even without ANY twists in them, especially in damp or high humidity conditions.
Bigiron

The loss of up and down is very likely to be caused by dirty lines. I was mystified by the lack of movement in my lines until I noticed that they were stuck together with the castor residue from what I regarded as a minor fuel spill in my flight box. A little fuel went a long way.

Thankfully I noticed the problem in the pre-flight control check. Clean lines are the answer. I now keep a clean lint free cloth and some methanol in my flight box to wipe the lines with before my first flight of the day.

>I buried a plane this weekend,
>lost up and down.
>Can fishing swivels eliminate twisted
>lines? Some people say no,
>some maybe. What do the
>Pros say.

Swivels will not help with twists in lines. They would only correct twists in an individual line, not two lines twisted together.

Moreover, fishing swivels will not take the load for long, from either wear or fatigue. They are also not permitted in competition for this reason. DO NOT use them, unless you issue hard-hats and body armor to every spectator.

If the lines are locking together from twists, they are either damaged or dirty. Lines are cheap, replace them frequently. Most competitors, myself included, clean our lines with a *clean* paper towel and lacquer thinner or acetone before every flight. If it leaves a gray or black streak, keep redoing it until it doesn't. This is a performance issue with stranded lines, and a mandatory act with solids.

Unless you are competing, and have a really good reason, I strongly advise that you forget solid lines. They have very good control response, but they are extremely prone to sticking together unless you use extreme care. I have used them, but finally decided that I was better off on average with cables.

I once asked Larry Svarinzi, after watching him put what I had considered an inordinent number of loops in a flight, how many caused lack of control.

We counted the extra loops that he had made with a 100+ combat critter and came up with 30 complete loops! He said that there was no noticable slowness in the system.

Larry admonishes that lines be wiped with alcohol EVERY FLIGHT (Larry, still having his original dollar, uses napkins from McDonalds). He points out that the napkins also find little kinks and gnarls early.

Keep-em clean and wind them up correctly (a large line reel helped me a bunch in this area!) and lines will last a long time!

See Ya

I wipe my lines with a dry clean paper towel before every flight and after the last flight of the day. I always see black lines on the paper towel. I'll try it with alcohol and see if I can get them really clean. I've seen a friend's lines that were dirty enough to be about .030 diameter. Yuck!

We have often cleaned our lines with a paper towel and Windex (or whatever cleaner was currently being used to clean the plane.) Alcohol works good. Brake cleaner works extremely good. You want something that can penetrate between the strands and get any oil and/or dirt out. that is where a good, non-oily solvent works best.

One of the biggest contributors to dirty, sticky lines is running your oil soaked hands down the lines to make sure they are straight, and then setting the lines down on the dirt or asphalt. It is no wonder those towels get black when we start cleaning the lines!

>I wipe my lines with a
>dry clean paper towel before
>every flight and after the
>last flight of the day.
> I always see black
>lines on the paper towel.
> I'll try it with
>alcohol and see if I
>can get them really clean.

I think acetone or something similar is a better choice, Alcohol tends to carry and attract water, and you don't want water either. On solids, even one drop of any liquid in the wrong place will lock them up so hard you couldn't break them loose with both hands. Despite some suggestions to this effect, any sort of lubricant, like oil, tends to either lock it up, or make it feel like the controls are buried in silly putty.

Stranded lines degrade gracefully when wet.

I carry the thinner in a plastic squeze bottle. If it's really dirty, just squirt a bunch of thinner into the towel, enough to flood the lines, and this will really get down in the cracks.

Another possibility is to use Rain-X, which sort of works. But the entire purpose is to leave behind some silicone, and I'm more -or-less convinved you don't want to leave anything on the lines.

One thing I haven't tried, and might actually work, is to wipe down the lines with spray-can teflon mold release compound. Keith Trostle uses graphite powder, but my guess is that it doesn't stick around very long one you take off.