Harter speed pan

I recently acquired an old rat racer that has a real nice Harters speed pan on it. I'm sure the pan is pretty old as Harter was bought out by Midwest many years ago. The old plane just needs a little work to get it flying again but I'm wondering if I should risk damage to the old speedpan. I have only seen a few over the years and thought this forum would be a good place to get an opinion. Should this old racer be a hanger queen or should I put it back in the air? Let me know what you think.

>I recently acquired an old rat racer that has a real nice
>Harters speed pan on it. I'm sure the pan is pretty old as
>Harter was bought out by Midwest many years ago. The old
>plane just needs a little work to get it flying again but
>I'm wondering if I should risk damage to the old speedpan.
>I have only seen a few over the years and thought this forum
>would be a good place to get an opinion. Should this old
>racer be a hanger queen or should I put it back in the air?
>Let me know what you think.

Dear Just*, Do you want to have a Great Experience flying the model?
Or, would you rather grow old....then die, just looking at what might
have been?
Tony

>>I recently acquired an old rat racer that has a real nice
>>Harters speed pan on it. I'm sure the pan is pretty old as
>>Harter was bought out by Midwest many years ago. The old
>>plane just needs a little work to get it flying again but
>>I'm wondering if I should risk damage to the old speedpan.
>>I have only seen a few over the years and thought this forum
>>would be a good place to get an opinion. Should this old
>>racer be a hanger queen or should I put it back in the air?
>>Let me know what you think.
>
>Dear Just*, Do you want to have a Great Experience flying
>the model?
>Or, would you rather grow old....then die, just looking at
>what might have been?
>Tony

And I take the other view. There are "users" and there are "collectables". There are many antique chairs that are proudly displayed by their owners that have a sign in them saying, "please do not sit." There are many antique cars that their owners have spent countless hours or dollars in meticulous restoration that will never be driven again on a road anywhere. Their owners have a beautiful piece of history and do not wish to risk it to irreparable damage.

There is the joy of flying, and there is the joy of ownership. If you have a valuable collectable, will that collectable give you any more enjoyment in flying than a different plane? Will the experience of flying the ancient plane outweigh its value if it were lost or damaged?

Ask yourself, would flying Aldrich's original (now rebuilt and restored) Nobler, or Palmer's Thunderbird (now residing in the AMA museum) or Don Still's original Stuka (proudly displayed in his hobby shop) be any more gratifying than flying a copy? And, should it be lost or damaged in flight, would a copy sitting somewhere be more or less valuable than having had the original to display?

I am sure Don Still would prefer to have his original to display than my copy in his hobby shop, And my copy will give the same experience for me as flying his original.

I vote to restore it and proudly display it as the irreplacable antique and piece of modeling history that it is.

Fly the thing. By the way, I am hawking a couple of Harter's kits at you know where right now. Those pans are beautiful.

>>>I recently acquired an old rat racer that has a real nice
>>>Harters speed pan on it. I'm sure the pan is pretty old as
>>>Harter was bought out by Midwest many years ago. The old
>>>plane just needs a little work to get it flying again but
>>>I'm wondering if I should risk damage to the old speedpan.
>>>I have only seen a few over the years and thought this forum
>>>would be a good place to get an opinion. Should this old
>>>racer be a hanger queen or should I put it back in the air?
>>>Let me know what you think.
>>
>>Dear Just*, Do you want to have a Great Experience flying
>>the model?
>>Or, would you rather grow old....then die, just looking at
>>what might have been?
>>Tony
>
>And I take the other view. There are "users" and there are
>"collectables". There are many antique chairs that are
>proudly displayed by their owners that have a sign in them
>saying, "please do not sit." There are many antique cars
>that their owners have spent countless hours or dollars in
>meticulous restoration that will never be driven again on a
>road anywhere. Their owners have a beautiful piece of
>history and do not wish to risk it to irreparable damage.
>
>There is the joy of flying, and there is the joy of
>ownership. If you have a valuable collectable, will that
>collectable give you any more enjoyment in flying than a
>different plane? Will the experience of flying the ancient
>plane outweigh its value if it were lost or damaged?
>
>Ask yourself, would flying Aldrich's original (now rebuilt
>and restored) Nobler, or Palmer's Thunderbird (now residing
>in the AMA museum) or Don Still's original Stuka (proudly
>displayed in his hobby shop) be any more gratifying than
>flying a copy? And, should it be lost or damaged in flight,
>would a copy sitting somewhere be more or less valuable than
>having had the original to display?
>
>I am sure Don Still would prefer to have his original to
>display than my copy in his hobby shop, And my copy will
>give the same experience for me as flying his original.
>
>I vote to restore it and proudly display it as the
>irreplacable antique and piece of modeling history that it
>is.

I agree, for whtever that's worth...besides, flying a Rat by itself isn't a great thrill. All you can do is just go round and round, round and round, flat and level, pretty fast...Now, put 4 of 'em up at once, and you'll have thrills like you never experienced before.
(Anyone remember the fad of 5000 lap races around KC, many decades ago? I think a minimum of 40 pit stops...maybe it was 50?)
--Ray

Thanks for the input everyone. I think I will go with the restoration and preservation philosophy. Ray makes a good point in that it is a round and round flyer that won't be all that much of a thrill to fly. And Leonard, I don't think there is any way that experiencing a flight would ease the disappointment of having crashed the plane. I guess it just won't be worth the risk to me. I do have several other control liners that I would be more comfortable flying.

Thanks again,
Tom

Hey!

If the plane is in flyable condition (Look carefully!) AND if you are advanced enough in your skills to be reasonaly assured that you won't crash a nice plane, you can sorta have things both ways.

Set the plane up and fly it for an afternoon. Maye even let a couple of buddies in on the thrill by giving them a turn. Then, at the end of the day, clean the plane up and take it home to your shop for a complete resto.

Then, at leaste you can say that you flew it!

If you doubt your ability to bring it home in one piece, don't fly it. No sense ending the models life with a crash!

Build a copy of the original airplane and fly it that way you do not risk damage to the original. The original speed pan for the HellRazor 1949 was carved from pine, not sure about your airplane.

It sounds like a Royal Rodent.Is that the name? I have one new in the box. Some one want to trade for it.It is in my long term storage right next to the Ranrod 250.I need a ladder to get to it.
Ed

Not sure what kit it is. It is a magnesium pan with Harters pat. pend. printed on the inside. Ed, what would you like in trade for your Royal Rodent? I don't know anything about that kit. Can you give me a description?

I have thougt of using this pan to make a fiberglass mold. If I do I'll post a picture of one I get off the mold.

Come to think of it I will post a picture of what I have tomorrow so you can see what I'm worried about tearing up.

Time to go.

Just to bring back a few memories, an old friend gave me a Royal Rodent kit a few years ago. The pan is purple with a sheet metal LG, not sure if those are original. The rest is still a kit in the box.
He also gave me a class "A" Kansas Twister. It has an original pan (aluminum, I think) and an extra Harters magnesium pan. The magnesium was a bit corroded, but cleaned up well.

As to the Ramrod 250, I have always wanted to build one ever since Ron St Jean published it. Never had a place with enough space considering my lack of FF skills. ...Perhaps someday.

My Royal Rodent has the magnesium pan and the wire gear is installed.All that I have ever seen have had a wire gear. The gear bends forward so the plane will not nose over.I would fly the plane you have as there is nothing to break on it by flying it.The tank is very small and the flight will be very short if the tank even still works.My pan is drilled for a Johnson motor.The pan is about 15 inches long.I built a lot of Ramrod's many years ago.We didn't build the kits with the push through ribs we built them like a I-beam with cap ribs.The 600 was the one I built the most. I used K&B green head .19,.201 and .23s on them.I am going to be away for a week so I will not see any reply after today. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO TRADE?
Ed

Tom, In one of your responses you stated that round and round flying wouldn't be much of a thrill. Having been a speed flyer from the late 40s to the 60s I can assure you that speed flying is or was a thrill.
Having built speed models, tuned engines, spent many hours developing fuel mixtures and props and then hanging on the lines with a D ship doing 160 plus or a B ship going 140 or so, that's a thrill!! There's much more to it than the average stunt flyer realizes, however it's whatever appeals to one. With virtually no speed flying around these days I am learning the pattern after having been away from the sport for over 40 years and enjoying every minute of it. If you decide to take the 61 apart, take the advise of an earlier response; be very careful. The needle point bearings on the connecting rod are not easy to reinstall.By the way, one of my speed models from the 50s is in the museam in Muncie. Also held records with 61s and 29s. AMA does not keep records back beyond 1972 so you won't have any luck getting info there. The only proof that I have is the certificates. In my case they are signed by "Kieth Story", president of AMA during that period of time. Regards, Sonny

Tom, Sorry, I confused your Harter pan with an earlier post pertaining to a Hell Razor pan with a Dooling 61. Sorry

You can get more info on just about any speed kit from Mike Hazel. The Harter kits are not that collectible "yet". I would have some fun with it. I sold a Royal Rodent for $30, a little cheap but I didn't think that much of the kit. Mike's email is [email protected] Jim J

Thats o.k. Sonny. I think I know the Hell Razor you are typing about. I have been watching the listing on you know what bay. It got a little pricey for me to bid but it is a good listing worth looking at. The seller put parts of a forum thread regarding the Dooling 61 in his description.

You know Sonny I didn't think of the high speed these plane reach when I said that about the round and round flying. Having never experienced it I should think before I type! Guess it is about time I do. I am about to get a project off the bench and am now planing on a good beginners speedster for my next project. Any suggestions on what model. How about your Rodent, Ed. Need any engines. I have some good old Fox cl engines, a .19 and a .29. How about an old Guillows Rat Racer in the old sleave type box. It is in excellent shape. Or would that be a good starter plane. Oh, I have a built one already that needs just a little work to get it going.

Can anyone tell me how to post a picture here?

Sure have enjoyed the response to this my first ever forum posting of any kind.

Thanks everyone,
Tom