Operational Oriental ARF !

LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-04 AT 09:14 PM (CDT)
 
This post may be more suitable for Product Reviews, But I am going to post it here anyway. I have seven flights on the Oriental ARF, and it seems promising so far. All I have done to it is tweek the flaps, and add a bit more tip weight. It has a lot of line tension, and really tracks well, both upright and inverted. It does have a problem with vertical eights, in that it gets very loose at the transition from the upper outside loop to the lower inside, in fact , the last one I tried, I almost lost the airplane. Since I don't really know what is causing this problem, any tips would be appreciated. This airplane flies nothing like the Nobler ARF, but I guess it is not supposed to. The Nobler is more responsive, but the Oriental flies smoother (slower controls?). My Oriental has a Brodak .40 for power, and runs nicely with the reccomended 4 oz. tank. This engine is really economical, and gets plenty of flight time on 4 oz. of fuel. I am using muffler pressure, and have tried both 10-5 and 11-5 props. I haven't settled on a prop yet. Though not really difficult, the Oriental is, I think, harder to assemble than the Nobler. One thing they have in common, is the hardware package, most of which must be replaced! I actually, think the Nobler's hardware package was a little bit better. The Oriental leadouts are better than the Noblers, but were'nt good enough for me. I replaced them with bushed Brodak .027's. It has 2/56 clevises which must be replaced. I used an arrow shaft pushrod with 4/40 Pylon Golden Clevises. I know I will be condemned here for using them, but Tom Morris offers the Golden Clevises for use with his threaded rods, so they are probably OK. The control horns may need to be bushed depending on what type of control rod ends you use. I replaced the CA hinges with DuBro pinned barrel type hinges, and installed larger tires for use on my grass field. I thought the fuselage bottom looked a bit weak at the main gear attach point, so I beefed that up a bit. The color on the cowling was totally different from the covering color, so I repainted mine with Missle Red Lustercote which is a pretty good match. After the plane was assembled, I used a tiny paint brush, and touched up the glue joints with the Missle Red paint. This will really improve the appearance of your Oriental! One other thing I did, was to make and install a painted balsa canopy. I just could'nt figure out a really good way to attach the supplied plastic canopy. I simply glued the balsa one on like the rest of the airplane is assembled. By the way, the airplane balanced perfectly as it was built, and weighs right at 45oz. If anyone has anything to add to this, please do!

Hi Don

Thanks for the 'review' of the Oriental.

Mine arrived last week and I am wondering about the leadouts—the braided cable running on the nylon bellcrank.

Am I correct to assume you cut the leadouts and make new ends after feeding the wire through the wing? And how do you thread the new leadout cable thrpough the covered wing?

I am very new to this level of model, especially ARF. I have not had trouble installing leadouts in uncovered wings—even get them close to the same length but a precovered wing...

Regards, Geoff

Geoff,

The Oriental leadouts are without doubt better than the Noblers, and probably OK, but the stock wire seemed too flexible and "soft" to me.
The crimping method also left something to be desired. There are a number of ways to replace the leadouts, but I used what I call the "Big D" method that I learned from Dick Byron. You will have to put a small hole in the center section below the Bellcrank screw for screwdriver access,remove the nut from thre bellcrank screw, cut off the leadout ends, and pull bellcrank and all from the wing. Now a long section of 1/16" brass tubing is inserted through the leadout guides into the wing. After the bellcrank and new leadouts are assembled, the free end of each leadout wire is inserted into the end of the brass tubing and drawn back out the leadout guides. Since Brodak bellcranks are different top and bottom, you must be sure to note the top and bottom of the bellcrank, and not put it back in the plane upside down! Now finish out your leadout ends and you are ready to go! One note, the leadout guides must be enlarged a small amount to allow the 1/16" brass tubing to pass through. It took longer for me to hunt and peck this post than it did to actually replace the leadouts! As I said earlier, there are other ways to do this. With a little bit of effort, you could just feed the new wires into the wing then attach them to the bellcrank, or CA a piece of string or wire to the old leadouts and pull that through as you take out the bellcrank and leadouts, then attach the wire or string to your new leadouts and pull them back in place.

Review Comments.

I actually started out doing a review of the ARF Oriental and found too many problems with the instructions to continue. The problems are being corrected and I'll get a new kit/instructions when they are complete and we can then give an honestly positive review.

I'm new to CL, but I've been modeling for 36+ years. I've done probably 50 reviews of different products in most of the popular modeling magazines. Here's what I found:

If you are an experienced control line flyer, you can toss the instructions in the trash and assemble the model the way you would finish any model. In fact, there wasn't even a CG noted in the instructions! This is a major fault.

I used everything in the parts bag. I had been told that there has to be some slop in a CL controls or the plane will hunt all the time. So the large hole in the control horns and the small pins of the clevises was thought to be designed in. After sleeping on it, I started asking questions and found out the clevis should have been in a 1/16" hole for the 1/16" pin. I had to cut 3 holes in the plane to get to the forward and aft ends of the elevator pushrod, install bushings to fit and recover the holes. I was able to solder the elevator control horn bushing, but the flap bushing isn't.

Knowing what I know now, I would have changed the pushrod system completely.

I used the leadouts just like they came. One shouldn't have to re-engineer an airplane to make it flyable. The RC plane reviews I've done don't and the CL kits shouldn't either. I know we all have personal preferrence and that's fine, but the basic system should be safe for a reasonable length of time.

Since my fuse was black, the cowl matched perfectly. Of course in the hot sun, the covering softens and I have to tighten it up when I get home.

I used an LA 40 and needed 2 ounces in the tail to get the balance close. It's going to need a little more to be perfect but we need some more flying time on it. I started at 1 3/4" back from the LE. That's a very safe starting point. I'd start at 2" if I were to build another one. With a Dubro spinner and 2 ounces in the tail, I'm at 44 ounces. I'm expecting to need an additional 1/4 to 1/2 ounce in the tail for a 'perfect' CG. That makes shelby554's weight and mine nearly identical.

I used the CA hinges and thought they were too stiff...I was right. My instructor made me change them. I changed pin hinges too. I think the kit should include the correct hinges or no hinges at all.

We haven't flown it since the hinge change, but it's made a huge difference in the way the control system feels. It's fast or quick, where the CA hinges made it sluggish. My instructor was able to do the full pattern with the CA hinges, but he was pulling out early due to control stiffness. With the new hinges, it'll be fine.

Now it's time for me to learn the pattern. Inverted flying is up next. 'Should be interesting! gv

Gavoss,

I think I am like many CL enthusiasts,in that I like to tinker. To me it is fun to take something that is perfectly fine, and "improve"it , if you know what I mean. I like this new ARF breed of CL airplane, but adding a personal touch is satisfying, and some of this stuff really does need some re-engineering. Concerning the C/G, the Brodak website says it should be 17/8" behind the leading edge. If you can figure out a way to replace the pushrod and clevises, it would be good. A little rework might save you from a crash repair.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-04 AT 11:06 AM (CDT)
 
Gavoss,

You could cut a pretty good sized access hole in the top of the fuselage, under the canopy area. It might be large enough to work in a new pushrod assy. Afterwards, patch the hole, paint the canopy black or silver on the inside, and you would never see the repair. Then, on the other hand, if you are going to use this plane to learn inverted flight, it might not make any difference anyway LOL. I (idiot) attempted to learn to fly upside down with a beautiful antique scratch built PT22. The inverted flight and the PT22 lasted about 15 more seconds. The engine, fuel tank bellcrank and wheels are all that were left. A simple profile ship would have probably been better to learn that maneuver.

With all the modifications that these arf's seem to need. Replacing all the hardware, hinges,leadouts, painting, etc.. I am left wandering, whats the point here? I have'nt purchased one yet and from what I am hearing I probably wont.

Henry—is that what you like to be called?

All the criticisms are valid but there is a huge amount of work already done.

In the total scheme of things, the rework/replace time that is considered mandatory is very small compared to building a model from a full laser cut kit—even if you measure it in days rather than the rulebook's minutes.

Mine weighs 29.1 oz without engine or tank. I think that will bring the completed model in at about 10oz per sq foot which I think is pretty good.

I have only ever used dope and simple paints in the past—never plastic film. I expect to ask a few seemingly dumb questions before the model flies. I hope you will be patient.

However, I like what I received. I think John B has done a great job. There are a few warts but, nothing insurmountable.

The things that I do not like are:
1 The braided leadouts running on the nylon bellcrank
2 The flap to elevator pushrod and the tiny clevises
3 The amount of slop in the unbushed horns
4 The hinges
5 The landing gear screwed into 2mm, or 3/32 balsa with wood screws

None of this is difficult to change or expensive.

Given my stage of development, I doubt that the model will last long enough to prove whether the leadouts and bellcrank are right or wrong. All teh rest are a no brainer to change.

Geoff,
You Sir are correct! The The Brodak ARF's cost only slightly more than the raw kit! The covering looks pretty good, and much better than I could do. You just need maybe less than $10.00 worth of replacement parts and one additional hours work to do the mods. In the end you have only about eight hours labor (pleasure/fun), and about half the dollar investment. I think both the Brodak and Topflite ARF planes are exceptional products, just not perfect! I may go the ARC route when the Smoothie's become available.