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K&B 45/Shark 45 Question

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 10 of 10 known posts recovered

Bill Groman · Oct 04, 2004 08:43 PM

#0 source
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-04 AT 10:01 PM (CDT)
 
For Currell or any others that may recall the late 1950's stunt era, which version of the K&B 45 was used by Lew in the Shark 45? I believe that was near the end of the green-head production period, but I am not sure. I'm also not sure if the control-line 45 shared the same case with the RC version, or which version Lew used. Also, did he modify his engines?

I know I could reach Lew by mail to ask him, but I've got a short deadline to get the info. I'm looking at a couple of engines Wednesday for a Shark 45 restoration project and want to be sure I've got the right version for the late '50s-early '60s era.

As always, you guys are the greatest resource, and thanks in advance for helping.

Bill Groman

"There is no such thing as the wrong way to enjoy a hobby"

Currell · Oct 04, 2004 10:47 PM

#1 source
It looks like the same case to me.

I have a Peter Chinn engine review of the Greenhead 45 someplace. The big design difference is the counterbalance rotor in the back.

These are barking, rorty torty, manly motors. And thank K & B for at least trying to minimize the shakin'. Lord only knows what they would be like without the balance thingie.

When you compare a Greenhead 45 to a modern ABC (like an FP 40), it is like night and day.

Currell

LeagueCityRalph · Oct 04, 2004 11:19 PM

#2 source
I grew up (as much as I ever intend to) in Lexington, KY. And Lew used a C/L version of the K&B .45 Greenhead. He actually preferred the Veco .45, which is probably where I developed my predilection for BB engines.

There was also a Fox .59 version which never saw the light of day . . .

You don't even have to depend on USPS; Lew is in the PAMPA "yellow pages" and is very approachable! Just call him (allow for the time zone difference).

Ralph Wenzel

Dallas Hanna · Oct 05, 2004 01:42 AM

#3 source
Just wondering.......... When did Lew change the name to "Shark" from "Humbler"? Were the two the same planform? I think there was a 35 version as well. Anyone over there up on this bit of trivia?

DH

gcb · Oct 06, 2004 09:12 AM

#5 source
I THINK it was when he published it. I seem to remember that he still has "Humbler" somewhere on the first one.
Perhaps Ralph has more details.

George

LeagueCityRalph · Oct 13, 2004 08:45 AM

#9 source
You're correct, George. The first Shark still says "Humbler" on the radio fairing behind the pilot's head.

Lew enjoys word games; his "Ruffy" was a counterpoint to Palmer's "Smoothie"; "Humbler" was a counter to GMAs "Nobler". Not sure where "Dolphin" came from; possibly a derivative "Shark", although it did appear about the same time as the Ford "Mustang" . . .

Ralph Wenzel

Bill Little · Oct 06, 2004 12:53 PM

#6 source
>I think there was a 35 version as well. Anyone over there up
>on this bit of trivia?
>
>DH

Hi Dallas,
There is a 35 version. Bob Whitely has been flying one (he calls it the Mini Mako) in Classic for several years now. I'm pretty sure he won Classic at the NATS with it.
Tom Dixon said this summer that he was coming out with a kit (maybe a "short" kit) for the Shark 35.
Bill <><


When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

Bill Groman · Oct 05, 2004 10:53 PM

#4 source
OK, thanks for the input. I had a chance today to pick up an RC K&B GH 45 in great condition for a fair price, so I did. Rather than wait to find a CL version in as good condition I'll just try to find or make a venturi for this one. It will be fun to fly the restored Shark with the original engine type.

As far as vibration is concerned, I wonder if the 45's were commonly modified to run smoother?

Bill Groman

"There is no such thing as the wrong way to enjoy a hobby"

rjbob · Oct 13, 2004 02:43 AM

#7 source
I have a NIB Veco 45 Stunt. I was thinking of putting it in a Shark 45 which I'm planning to build in the future (I have 2 kits), but with the great modern engines on the market, it would probably be better to use an FP or a Magnum instead.

Has anyone flown a Shark with a blue OS .46 LA?

Cheers,
Bob Edison
Anchorage, Alaska

Warhawk · Oct 13, 2004 08:21 AM

#8 source
Johnny Brodbeck of K&B Allyn talked me into putting a K&B 45 in my P40N Warhawk while he was Contest Director for USAF Model Airplane Championships in 1960. He had just introduced the 45 as smooth running RC engine.

He had his son John Junior bring one to the Dallas Nats. In the mean time I removed the Fox 35 and retro fitted a K&B 35 in my P40N, which had the same mounting holes and crankshaft length as the 45.

Mr Brodbeck convinced me, sight unseen, that the 45 would hold a solid, unchanging 4 cycle run and would easily haul my 47 ounce, 57 inch wing span model through the pattern with ease. Fortunately John Junior had the engine broken in for me.

The engine fit perfectly in place of the K&B 35. One big short coming of the engine was that it needed more fuel than the Fox 35 to run at a steady four stroke, which was what I was used to. It ran out of fuel in the middle of the clover leaf ever time I flew it, using 70 foot lines eyelet to eyelet. I shortened the lines to 65 feet eyelet to eyelet, but that did not help the fuel problem. It just made lap times faster.

I had mounted the tank permanently as was the custom back in 1950s and digging it out of the model and installing a bigger tank was not an option.

Being on the Air Force Team, I had a bunch of events that I had to fly for team points. I knew I was not going to be allowed to spend a lot of time with the Stunt event. So I put in my two officials, setting the engine just breaking off four cycle. The 45 would lean out in each maneuver and with a Top Flite 12 X 6 paddle blade prop it was like a rocket, much like a Torp 35 Combat Special engine.

It ran out of fuel in the middle of the Clover Leaf on both official flights. Of course that cost me pattern points, landing points and only minimum points for the clover leaf.

1960 Nats George Aldrich was the Event Director and due to so many entrants he had set up the multiple circles and eliminations down to a final top 10 qualifiers from each circle. I managed to be in the top ten in my circle but I did not fly anymore because I knew the 45 was not going to get any better gas mileage and I was being pressed to get hopping on my other events.

Lew MacFarland was not on the Air Force Team that year. He did fly in competition and if I remember correctly, he would have won had he not left out the triangle loops on his final official flight. He was flying his Ruffy. I would suspect Johnny Brodbeck probably gave Lew his K&B 45 for his Shark at that Nationals. You will have to ask Lew about all of that. My 69 year old memory tends to falter lately.

I later put a 5 ounce tank in the P40N and with the K&B 45 went on to win a few more contests. It was great to fly on 67 foot lines and run it on a dead four cycle with 6 second lap times. It was a good engine but like the green head 35s the piston and liner wore out rather fast.

Johnny said he the engine he gave me was timed for Controlled Line Stunt flying. He never revealed any technical details. It had a ventura insert with a standard K&B needle valve assembly.

I have a like new RC version if anyone wants to buy cheap. I am getting too old to build let alone fly anymore. Like some of the other old timers, I fall when I have to look up and walk at the same time.

Hawk
Hoyt D. Hawkins
34 Arledge Drive
Attalla, Alabama 35954
256-538-0110