Cardinlarf and Saito 40?

Anyone have a reading on what kind of combo the Cardinal ARF and the Saito 40 might make? I am thinking it might be great for Profile 40 competition if there is enough power.

Although by AMA standards the .56 is officially a .33 equivalent, in Profile 40 a 40 is a 40 is a 40. Diesel, glow, ignition, 4s all the same.

I guess my question boils down to what size ships have been successfully flown with the Saito 40?

Larry,

My buddy, Pat Johston, used a Saito 40 on his 525 square inch profile in P-40. Had plenty of power. That engine is now in Dee Rice's Oriental Plus and I'm told is pulling it around with authority.

Larry....
I believe that Neal the Fireman has flown a Cardinal with one....if not, he will....and know that Z-man raves about both...

See Ya

I posted the exact same question on the 4 stroke forum today. Although my question was for the Cardinal kit. I convinced Lee Strickland to purchase a Saito 40A awhile back, and when I went to his shop, he was almost finished with his Cardinal kit. I don't know whether he actually flew it or not. I was emailing him tips on Saito setups.

Saito setup. Bolt it on airplane. Hook up to tank. Use an OS "F" plug. A propeller and fuel would be a nice addition. Use a rubberband to hold the carb open.

What else is there?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-04 AT 07:50 PM (CDT)
 
>> Use a rubberband to hold the carb open.
>
Ahh, but precisely what type of rubberband! That is the key question. LOL

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-04 AT 08:08 PM (CDT)
 
That, of course is my secret, and I would have to have you "offed" if I told you.

At the Hi Johnson meet Lee said he was afraid to fly the Saito. We got to lean on that boy!!!

Larry,

Pat used some sort of aluminum plug. He took the barrel out of the carb, inserted the plug that was drilled to the proscribed venturi size. Used the original needle assembly. Ran great.

>Larry,
>
>Pat used some sort of aluminum plug. He took the barrel out
>of the carb, inserted the plug that was drilled to the
>proscribed venturi size. Used the original needle assembly.
>Ran great.

Pat sent me an e-mail describing the mod which is done and working in my Saito 40. You turn up a piece of ali stock to sliding fit in carb (mine is 0.346in.dia. I made it 5/8in long
I went for 11/64 venturi size or 0.203 which is crossdrilled 0.25in from inside end. Bore a 3/32in hole from this end to meet venturi hole - this takes the existing brass spraybar. Push assy in and when in place mark through the existing set screw hole in rear of carb body. Remove plug, drill shallow 5/64in. hole where you've marked it and locate the set screw in this 'dimple' to hold plug in place. Works a treat! If you make the plug too snug a fit you won't get it out easily so plenty of oil - if in trouble blow it out with compressed air! Pat used 0.1875 venturi initially but opened it out to 0.203 With these dimensions mine has plenty of go and could even be smaller. Hope it helps. I've got a turbocad drawing somewhere if useful
Adrian

>That, of course is my secret, and I would have to have you
>"offed" if I told you.
>
>At the Hi Johnson meet Lee said he was afraid to fly the
>Saito. We got to lean on that boy!!!

Brand new Saito 72, never been flown by anyone. Brand new Backfire I-first prototype - 86 oz. First time ever flying a plane that heavy. Never owned a 4 stroke motor before. Simi Valley school yard - alone. Wind blowing like like crazy. Engine screaming with a 14x6.
Stooge release is in my left hand. In the next couple of seconds, as far as model aviation is concerned, I am about to find out what I am really all about. Talk about fear.

The 4 Stroke Forum is at [email protected] Bob has been running the forum for a number of years. You will most certainly be a welcome addition.

[email protected] seems to be an email address, not a website.

Larry - you're correct. It's an e-mail address. Instead of a forum, it's an information exchange service. People send me info on their experiences with 4S engines and I simply pass it on to the other "Strokers". There are over 100 subcribers at this time. No cost, no password, no obligation. Once your name is on the list, you will get information as I receive it. If at any time, you decide it's not for you, just tell me and I remove your name - simple as that.
Rules are minimal - no politics, no religion, and, as on SSW, keep it clean. Occasionally, I get a message that deals with human interest, patriotism or just some non-4S related topic. I reserve the right to pass it on or dump it.
I was amazed at just how much good information has come through - many useful hints on these most impressive powerplants.
Anyone is welcome!!! Share your experience.
You can also, at your option, keep the message private - If you do not want it passed on, just let me know.
Bob Z.

>What else is there?

Well, although I still haven't run the engine, I did purchase the Intake Manifold/Venturi/NV Assembly from Steve Moon. Pretty work. Got a Cardinal ARC, too. That, also, is very pretty . . .

Where is this 4-stroke forum?

Saito setup. Bolt it on airplane. Hook up to tank. Use an OS "F" plug. A propeller and fuel would be a nice addition. Use a rubberband to hold the carb open.
What else is there?

Larry Renger
think S.M.A.L.L.

What else? Lose the carb. You're a smart guy, you'll know why an air-bleed carb is bad news for our application.

Or get ready for it to "mysteriously" quit. While inverted, no doubt.

Actually, on the carburetors I have seen, the airbleed is shut with the carb open, and I have been flying this way for several years with no problem. Currently, I am flying the Magnum 30 with a non pressurized balloon tank 3" behind the engine (inside the wing). It has a bit more lean-out in maneuvers than I like, but the runs are reliable.

Hi, Larry - I did not reply yesterday as I did not have a proper answer. So, I mounted a new, just broken in SAITO .40 on the Cardinal ARF prototype to generate some answers for you.

First, let me state that of the SIX different engines that have flown the plane, the SAITO is far and above the best - hands down no question and every person who saw it fly agreed.

The engine was broken in according to the SAITO directions and then installed with the clamp system.

I ran it with the stock glow plug.
Carb wired open with the factory setting - nothing touched.
11-5 APC prop.
5 ounce tank, muffler pressure, non-uniflow.
Powermaster GMA 10/22.
63 foot e.t.e. x .015 lines, Hot-Rock handle

The first flight indicated a need for handle and tank adjustment - even so, we were able to do almost two patterns on one filling. After adjustments, all subsequent flights were perfect. We flew it till dark and it never missed a beat. All but one flight was a first-flip start. Choke it, pull it through to feel the bump and flip. GLOVE, PLEASE!!

Between my two .30s and the two .40s, I have well over 600 flights on these SAITOs all with the stock carb and plug.
Each engine (except the above mentioned new .40) had one valve adjustment just after break-in and was never again adjusted.
All the engines used the same Powermaster fuel.
I have NEVER had a plug fail. I have no idea what plug is supplied with the engine but it works so I do not touch it.

If you're curious about what planes to mount the .40 on, so far, I've had mine on "The Plane" (a large 52 ounce profile test plane), the Brodak Nobler (43 ounces), P-40 ARC (49 ounces) and Cardinal ARF (45 ounces). Dee Rice is having wonderful results with one on his Oriental Plus.

Sorry if I seem to ramble a bit but plain and simple, the .30 and .40 are my all-time favorite engines.

Hope this helps!
Bob Z.

ps - per Dee's suggestion, I will try the YS 20/20 fuel. He is very pleased with it.

>>ps - per Dee's suggestion, I will try the YS 20/20 fuel. He is very pleased with it.<<

Just a note on recent experiences. I run a Saito 56 and was having some trouble with somewhat uneven runs. The engine would pickup and lose a couple hundred rpm in level flight and I couldn't get a consistent needle. One run would be perfect, then one would be just a little off. Nothing big, but enough to irritate me. I switched from a clunk tank to a chambered chicken hopper sort of setup and while the run was generally better overall, the problem persisted. Again, not a big deal, but an irritating one.

I use YS 20/20 fuel and I started thinking that while I liked the addtional power it supplies, the weird runs never happened when I was using Wildcatr 10/23 fuel in it. So, just for the heck of it, I added some castor to the YS20/20 bringing it up to 23% oil and the problems have now gone away and I'm back to dead even runs again. Could be the plane jsut needs a bit more cooling, but I'll take the fix.

Anyone else experience this?

Randy,

That is very interesting. Give me a call on my e-mail, I would like to discuss this with you.

[email protected]

Thanks, Dee

Great information, guys! Thanks.