Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 32 of 32 known posts recovered
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
I don't think so. And there's no provision for a DQ no matter what you do.
Brett
AH You say IF I lost a part of my plane during a offical flight that's not a DQ?
Scott Riese
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
Indeed it IS NOT a DQ. It's an attempt.
Brett
AS for NO DQ....You must go to the AMA Rule Book about Safety. ALL events are subject to AMA RULES
Scott Riese
And that's exactly what the AMA rules say. In fact, it came up at the 2003 NATs.
Dropping parts is a *foul*. A foul results in recording of an attempt. It's in the "general" section. It came up when Howard knocked off his tail wheel during landing. Even though the stunt rules the flight is official when you turn inverted in the wingover, the General rules override that. We were all quite surprised at this interpretation, but it seems to be correct.
There were a few prior threads on this topic.
Brett
Thanks, Brett!
Bill <><
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
There is Nothing saying LANDING gear should be per plans Including tail wheel.
I can adapt to contest site and conditions....IF I HAVE REMOVABLE GEAR
AGAIN RULE 4 on Fidelity is the Spirit of the event. Foam Wings loose points. Carbon Fiber Gear loose points, (at some contests).
Interior structor is not an ISSUE with Classic, OTS, PA, SPORT.
OH BTW I have the rules here.
AS for NO DQ....You must go to the AMA Rule Book about Safety. ALL events are subject to AMA RULES.
Scott Riese
This is a good question.
Where can one get an actual hard or e-copy of the OTS, Classic, and Vintage stunt rules. Including manouver and airplane lists?
There might be a contest in town this millenium and I'm considering gettin' legal.
8836 Utah
Livonia MI 48150
fax: 734-266-7273
email: [email protected]
Don't be sour. 
The Shoestring I built last year had a carbon gear. But I made the gear as an exact duplicate of the original with fairings. And it was removable. Don't know if that takes a fidelity hit or not. The "appearence" was the same.
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
If the executive committee decides to place them on the site, it would be easy enough to do. I just sell these items for PAMPA Products cause thats the way its always been done. not much revenue really, just covers the copy cost mostly.
Did you every see any official measuring a classic plane at an event?
Curt
Hi Curt,
Didn't realize it would have to be an EC decision, but I guess it would be. No problem.
I didn't think there would be a massive shortage of your copies due to excessive demand! hahahaha I also believe that posting them on site wouldn't drastically affect the sales of said documents. But I don't want to start an argument over that!
>Did you every see any official measuring a classic plane at
>an event?
>Curt
Never, nor do I ever expect to. In fact, I have only attended one contest that actually has a fidelity points space on the score sheet, that is KOI. As I said before, an exact replica (even paint scheme and lettering) of a Spacehound, except for a painted canopy and engine (I have never SEEN a '64 MVVS stunt engine), scored 14. Which was the same score as my appearance points. Well worn. Didn't bother me at all.
I just don't want/need to hear any comments about a plane that I intend to build for fun and competition.
Thanks for the comments, I will be at Huntersville, looking for you!
Just take it easy on me, I haven't flown in a couple months!
Bill <><
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
No problem. Probably not necessary, but given the current environment.....
Brett
No problem. > Probably not necessary, but given the current
>environment.....
> Brett
Brett, I agree.
Bill <><
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
>I had a 5% *rule* on outline dimesions told to me by a guy I trust.
>Did you every see any official measuring a classic plane at an event?
Are we talking about sizes distorted by 5%?
FWIW, I think that a 5% difference in wingspan, for instance, would be visible to the experienced eye. For a 52" span, that would be .05 x 52.0" = 2.6", which seems beyond the spirit and letter of the rules. An inch or more in tail moment would change performance markedly. I haven't yet seen a ruler applied in classic though, but I'm relatively "new".
SK
Serge Krauss
I was just being the deveils advocate on that.
Curt
, better than I am. So I want to build a plane that I thought was neat when they were "new" or some obscure, as far as people flying them now, design.
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
I'm virtually certain that there is no measurement requirement. And I am certain that there is no provision to exclude any airplane for "design change" reasons. It's perfectly legal to take your Impact to a contest run under PAMPA rules, say it's an Ares, and fly it. And if your classic contest doesn't include Fidelity Points, there's no penalty.
It would also be pointless and you would not make a lot of friends, since it defeats the purpose of the event.
Brett
Great point. Classic is supposed to be a fun event in which we are able to fly some cool old designs. In that spirit, you build the plane as it is on the plans (or as close a you can). I'm sure if you took my new classic plane and compared it closely to the original plane built in the 60s, it would be out of compliance. But not by much. a 1/16" here, an 1/32" there. Heck, I doubt I could build two plane identically. Close, possibly very close, but not exact. Just the way it is.
In this case, it is the thought that counts.
I built a Skylark the next year and whipped it together, not spending near the time on it that I did on the Olympic, finish and all, and garnering more appearance points. I used a well known Tigre 46, but still used a lot of period equipment. I figured out then that not many people notice or appreciate your old spinners or wheels, but will find fault with some other feature. With the Skylark it was the canopy postion. The funny part was that the model used a top block and canopy from the Sterling kit!
The next year I showed up with the Skylark and had put all light weight accessories on it to try and make it balance. The wheels, spinner, muffler, landing gear, and prop were all modern PA stuff. Everybody liked the model now! Craziest thing I had ever seen. Banner wheels gone, no Veco spinner. Eather prop, and now it's a good VSC ship? Nuts. (It flew so well I crashed it twice to keep myself from doing very well in the competition).
So, my advice is build the model of your dreams, and paint it like you like, and use the accessories you are most comfortable with and have fun. It is the luck of the draw as to what the outcome of the contest will be, so if you like what your doing you won't be disappointed.
Chris...
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
Randy, it is in the spirit of the event that I ask, since you are aware of how I consider the Classic event.
Guys, I hope to get a Vulcan (1956 design) ready for Huntersville on the weekend of the 23rd. Geez, it was DESIGNED in 1956!! And built EXACTLY by the original designer's plans.
If I can get it out the weekend before and make sure it will fly, I might fly it in PAMPA as well as Classic.
It seems that I am being taken as wanting to start another arguement. (??) I ain't!
Bill <><
When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb
It would also be pointless and you would not make a lot of friends, since it defeats the purpose of the event.
Brett
Rats! I've been holding back on this one, but locally have been making the same point: Enter your Impact in Classic, claim it is an Oriental, no penalty whatsoever is possible unless the judges are using Classic-specific score sheets, these including a section for fidelity points. In that case you're pretty much zeroed out on the 20 points possible, but even here in the NW fidelity points are not judged/awarded at all contests.
Of course, peer pressure would preclude any but the totally insane from pulling above trick, but that's the way our Classic rules read, like it or not.
As to dropping parts during flight, it was very surprising to see how completely incorrect was common knowledge. We even had a fellow DQ'd from an event in late 2003 for his muffler falling off during a flight where he had already taken an attempt and was merely screwing around. One of our very best judges made the call. Although I knew the full story as it relates to Howard, I'm not much of a fan of flying mufflers, high-speed touch-and-goes, latter leading to former, so I put a lot of extra attention into prepping for my own flight.
Shameful conduct toward a really good friend, but there it is. I did help look for errant muffler, however. What a guy...
Dan
I think there is a legitimate point to me made on the "dropping parts" = "attempt" rule needing a change. I may propose the next rules cycle that this be changed in regards to stunt. Clearly, the "flight becomes official..." rule in stunt, and the "foul" rule in the general section are not in sync.
I would propose a "foul" prior to flight becoming official is an attempt, and "foul" post flight becoming official is an official flight with a score of 0. Or some such. DQ should mean something else.
Brett
Scaling is not approved in either OTS or Classic stunt. Either you build exact dimensions, or you don't enter. I try to reproduce planes exactly per the plane. Of course, one does not have access to Banner wheels or Froom spinners, but these things only have value if you want a trophy for some "Spirit of....". Small deviations cannot be detected at the field, but those of us who strive to be authentic would not think of changing a landing gear position, a tail moment, or an airfoil to improve performance.
Let the games begin!...
Dr. Spark