Veco Smoothie vs Brodak Smoothie

I am restoring my Dad's old '67 Nats airplane and wondered about the wings airfoil thickness. Dad's Veco Smoothie kit has a very sharp leading edged, thin section airfoil, and this Brodak kit is some quantum leap thicker and more blunt.

Am I to understand that the Brodak kit is a copy of some obscure, one off prototype that Bob Palmer built with a thick wing?

Chris:
Yes, that's what Bob explained at the roll-out of the kit.....and a funny thing...he had one of those tee's that said "the older I get, the better I used to fly".

Sorta makes the GSCB/Miske rules a bit more realistic?

See Ya

Well the Miske rules seemed to eliminate a few legit airplanes but most of all they didn't allow you any leeway. Not good for me.

It seems that the Brodak airplane should almost need a different name, because the Smoothie is most noted for it's thin wing. Well, maybe not anymore!

Just an impression.

Don't know if this will help but here goes. My original VSC (2000) was a Veco Smoothie. I met Mr. Palmer there and over the next two years built two of his Hurricanes. In the many conversations I had with him, he told me many times that Veco changed his design for the Smoothie as well as the Hurricane. Primarily this was in the Airfoil section although there were some minor "appearance" changes also. The Thunderbird was also messed with some but not to the same degree. So although Veco made the Smoothie and T-bird very popular, neither of these was truly the "Original". Just as an aside, quoting Mr. Palmer: "...the Hurricane was the best flying plane I ever designed but not nearly as commercially successful. Just wasn't sexy enough". Mr. Palmer actually attempted to get Veco to correct the Smoothie changes but was unable to achieve this.

Fast forward: When John Brodak and Mr. Palmer reached agreement for Brodak to do the Smoothie, Mr. Palmer insisted that it be the original version. John agreed to this and Mr. Palmer worked with the design team and approved the final plans.

The actual prototype or "original" versions of the three planes mentioned above were never accurately kitted by Veco. I don't know about all the other designs Mr. Palmer did because we only discussed the Smoothie and Hurricane in detail and the remark about the T-bird was just a comment about the situation with Veco. By the way, Mr. Palmer still has the prototype Hurricane. I don't know what happened to the Smoothie or the T-bird. Pictures (Hurricane) are in the SN issue that covered the 2003 VSC.

This was typical of most kitted stunt designs back then. Most of the popular ones I can think of were changed from the original design for basically one simple reason....... to fit in a standard box. Most airplanes were reduced in size, airfoils changed to get more ribs out of a standard piece of balsa. The polywog airfoil on several designs is a perfect example.
Dan McEntee

Amen! I promise that the Sterling version of Lew's "Ruffy" only approximated the true design. The actual airplane was built quite differently! I have old sepia drawings from the 60s, and the Sterling kit was an aberration! The kitted Shark45 was far worse! (I can't even use that word here!)

Interesting John,
Having known your Hurricanes I am under the impression that it is a very sexy model!
My wife often speaks of you after our conversation at VSC a couple of years ago she thinks you are a great gentleman, and loves your Veco Hurricanes too.

Sounds as if the Veco Smoothie was a victim of a similar thing that happened to the Sterling Skylark.

Maurice Doyle of Ireland had the misfortune to break the up line at our Nats this year, on his Hurricane. I was always surprised at what a great flying airplane this was, since it had a much heavier than original ST46 in it. Even with the attendant forward cg or weight in the tail, (don't know which), it really impressed.

>Mr. Palmer...told me many times that Veco changed his design for the Smoothie as well as
>the Hurricane. Primarily this was in the Airfoil section...

I'm looking here at my 8/52 Air Trails which has the "Smoothie" construction article (also the Roy Clough FF slotted saucer I loved). Someone wrote in SSWF a couple years ago that even these plans were not to Mr. Palmer's satisfaction or perhaps portrayed a version that was not his best (can't remember), although the plans are labeled as drawn by Clarence Lee and inked by Cal Smith. FWIW, they show a wing section of characteristic thickness for that time (looks like about 16.5% of unflapped chord), but with an unusually aft point of maximum thickness (somewhere around 40% of unflapped chord) and resultant sharpish leading edge. Interesting comments include "speed 65 to 70 mph" and "I have flown this model in high winds, and I have won every time" (credits reduced tip area). He stipulates a weight of 38-40 oz, but doesn't mention the airfoil.

SK

I watched Bob Palmer fly his Smoothie in a contest as I remember was in the parking lot at the Santa Anita Racetrack in Arcadia, CA. That was in the fall of 1951. His Veco 29 just barely ran, it was set so rich! But Bob did the complete pattern (with slack lines). The judges were impressed with the long lap times, and I think Bob came out the winner.

I was only a junior, so I didn't have to go head-to-head with Palmer. I did OK but I didn't win in Junior.

The Smoothie wasn't published intil the fall of 1952, but Bob flew this plane in 1951.
\Dr. spark

"Beer is God's way of telling us that He loves us and wants us to be happy." ---- Ben Franklin-----