K&B Stallion 35

A buddy gave me a box of C/L goodies today including a Gilbert Twin exhaust (used), a Fox 19 Stunt (NIB) and a K&B Stallion 35 (NIB). Anyone have experience with the Stallion 35? Good? Bad?. It feels a bit heavy, but it appears well made. How about the Gilbert? It has a 7 on the side. I take it, it's an .07. It's a piston port with the carb on the back. Good? Bad?

Hi Steve,
I ran a Stallion 35 years ago. It was K&B's answer to the less expensive market (McCoy Red Head). It was a good sport engine, not a true 4-2 engine for me, and heavier than the other 35s.
I still have it and it's in good running condition.

If the Fox 19 is a 3 bolt back plate, you have what is probably the best 4-2 19 size engine made. If it's a 4 bolt BP, it is better in a wet 2 cycle run with a lower pitch prop.

Can't say anything about the Gilbert.

Bill <><

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-04 AT 11:59 PM (CDT)
 
The AC Gilbert .07 came on the "Wing Thing", a free flight flex wing toy. It is best used for a fishing weight. The Stallion is a sport engine. The weak point is the pressed in crank pin. After a while it unpresses itself. The 3 bolt Fox 19 is the best of its kind ever made. The 4 bolt variety is no stunt engine, but is a strong runner.

BTW - the same muffler will fit the Stallion as fits a McCoy RH/Merco/Veco - the stacks are the same.

Merco silencers can be got from Ian Russell (posts as Rustler) and Len has tongue mufflers.

Tony

I have said it before on this forum.... but for any who missed.
The Merco muffler will also fit the ST C35 and ST G21-35.

Dave Moffitt

LAST EDITED ON Oct-11-04 AT 06:31 AM (CDT)
 
Steve,
All three engines are iron/steel and as such should be broken-in and fed with fuel containing 22%-25% castor lube.
Although I have not run them a lot, my Gilbert .07's run well. They were available as a close out item at Polks. I got several. Some looked as if they were broken out of the model that Garf mentioned, still had mounting screws and plastic on the mounts. Some arrived as a poly bag full of parts. All have one screw hole on each mounting lug.
It was also sold in a bubble pack as a fully assembled engine with prop. I don't have any of those.
It is a good engine for kids since the needle is way in the back. I have never checked to see what glow heads can be used in it.
There was also a Gilbert .11 available.
I think the engine was short lived because Gilbert went belly up. Too bad, Mr. Gilbert made many great toys over the years. Who did not have an Erector Set as a child?

Fuel for K&B Stallion.....
I am not by any means an engine Guru, so take this as you will.
I would not run a Stallion on any less then 29% castor.
Take the back-plate off and you will see the con-rod has no bushing so the Ally con-rod runs directly onto the steel Crank-pin......
This needs lots of lubrication....
I have bought one off E-bay where the big-end hole in the rod was a figure-8.... due to running with too little oil ?
Having said that... I like Stallions ( it was my first big engine... still have the first one I bought in 1975 ) they run well, start easy...
You can get a bit more power if you take the plastic intake liner out of the venturi and run with muffler pressure, that is what I did.

I have been using K&B Stallion for several years. Seems that when my brother and I flew together we each had one. Two different engines when it came to running. Same fuel, planes and tanks. His ran like a stunt engine is supposed to. Mine became a racing engine as it did not like to four stroke in flight. Great engines if you stay with old theory of running engines. The one I fly now has 11-5 power prop. Big airplane. Later, DOC

Agree with George re the Gilbert. I just sold one to a mate in Australia. He was very happy to receive it, and promptly put it on an all wood trainer. He's teaching kids how to fly. Based on the compression, I thought it would be OK, and I was right. I also thought that the glow head was burned out, but the Aussie guy simply cleaned off some corrosion, and it worked fine. Anyway, he had some extra heads.

As other posters stated, just run the K & B in a wet two, kind of like a modern ABC. The only K & B Greenhead that I am aware of running like a Fox is the fairly rare 29S.

Whoops. You said Stallion, not Greenhead. Anyway, the Stallion also likes to go in a wet two. I have one in a Smoothie right now, and it is a decent, if unexceptional, motor. Currell

Re the Gilbert - the other day I was browsing the links on the PAMPA website, and looked at the Engines offered on the Virginia Hobbysport website. They apparently have a bunch of Gilbert .11's, which you can buy, with or without recoil starter, and WITH muffler, for $25.56. Not a bad price, from where I sit. They even have extra glowheads available for $3.06. With the muffler on, it looks really interesting (that's the only example I've ever seen of a twin-stack with a muffler!)

Tim

LAST EDITED ON Oct-11-04 AT 10:32 AM (CDT)
 
He He!!, Tim, I think when I bought my .07 and .11 they were about $3 a piece in plastic bags. I've still got them, still in bags never run.

Something some of you may not know it that these engines are "sideports", that is not rotary inlet valve and they will run equally well (term being relative) in either direction like a reed valve engine such as a Baby Bee.

Oh, Stallion .35. I've got 2 of these and the discriptions above are very accurate. I used one on a CG P-40 for years, when I finally retired the plane you engine had had a rod rattle for 2 seasons but never failed. I'll bush it if I ever decide to use it again.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your help. The Fox 19 is a 4 bolt version. Will probably do ok in an Akromaster or a Brodak Clown. Another plane hehehe, just what my wife wants to hear. She says she's gonna turn my butt into a hangar. I have plenty of planes I can try the Stallion in, so I won't have to.... Expand for that. Thanks again guys.

Just one person's opinion but I think the Fox .19 would probably be better suited for a full size Flite Streak or Super Clown.

Man, I wish someone would give me a box of controlline goodies. So far, I have had to pay top dollar for everything!

Over the years quality control on the Stallion 35 was kinda funky. I had ones that ran with good power (kinda like a Fox 35) and others that were quite low on power.
The worst example I ever ran across was because the crankshaft had only a little slit cut in it for fuel to get into the engine. I used that one to experiment with intake timing on the shaft and got it to run about like a K&B Greenhead... just before the cylinder left the engine.
There are only two screws holding the cylinder to the case and four more holding the head to the cylinder. With a 8-8 prop and 25% nitro it was just too much for the motor. Stick with 5 or 10% nitro and 25% castor oil and you should be happy.

Bob Furr

That 4 bolt Fox 19 should go into a Zilch X-pendable or Warrior.

My TWO stallions were total geldings. I couldn't make either one run no matter what the track was like. Gutless wonders. Willie Shoemaker couldn't make these run! They have been turned into glue from whence they came. I wouldn't trade two dead flies for one of these engines.
Just my humble opinion.

BLACK HAWK

The Gilbert engines were designed by Hi Johnson and manufacture by Fox Mfg. They are the odd sizes because no one would make Gilbert an engine that would compete with their current products. The side port was picked because they start easy and the needle is away from the prop, in a safer place. The exhaust ports are offset so that the engines could mounted in Gilberts line of plastic models with an offset to maintain line tension. They need to be broke-in then they run very well; side port engines produce less power than other types so a .07 is like a .049 and the .11 is like a .09. The Gilbert line was ended when A. C. Gilbert died. To liquidate the assets of the company the engines were offered carded with a propeller and fuel tank from the plastic plane and an extra glow head. The engines were not suppose to be sold in this manner, it was part of the agrement, but with Gilbert dead they were offered for sale, later to unload as many as posible they were baged for sale. Polk took them over and sold the engines, the planes, stooges, and bomb drops. Polk sold all that was left to a Photo Shop in NY and they are currently reconditioning and carding the engines for sale. The original exhaust manifolds were mufflers, well one side was, the right side, however this was accomplished with a tube, full of holes pressed into the right manifold and these tubes are all gone now or at least are no longer being installed. Putting them in both sides caused to much back pressure. Once broken-in these are very good engines.
Larry

The Gilbert .07's that I received with mufflers, I think were the bag-of-parts ones (it's been awhile). Those mufflers were a stamped metal cover for each exhaust stack, and were held on by a screw. These must have been later versions.
Of the bagged ones, one came with a crankshaft that was unfinished and would not fit in the crankcase. I may someday finish it. In the meantime I have some others I'm not using.
Another thought: The ones that had been in the model have a spring starter that uses a large flywheel-like "drive washer" that will prevent them from running backwards. They also had reverse pitched props since they were installed as a pusher.

Darn, I'm getting all enthused about them again. Envisioning a CL plane for them...

Never had a Stallion...engine nor hoss.

Golly, maybe I should unbag mine and run them in. I got then from Polk's when they were set up at one og the hobby shows years ago, Toledo I think. Have to check, but I don't remember any mufflers. I'd heard they were really anemic, guess I'll have to find out for myself now.

Norm: Stallion quality may have been more variable than most, but I have had pretty good luck with mine, on a Smoothie. Are they my first choice for a vintage .35? No.

There is a guy in Oz that loved the things, and pleaded with me to sell them to him. I obliged.

By the way, Stallions came both with a shiny and matte case. The very last ones had red heads. These motors were heavier than most; take a look at the 1/2" crankshafts. So they were pretty stout motors. I liked the way they designed the plastic venturi application. Very neat job.

Stallion was K & B's (belated) answer to Fox's Rocket and McCoy's Redhead, from a price point perspective.

My K&B Stallion .35 needs a new con rod. The crank end is severly egg-shaped with not enough metal left to put in an insert. The engine is in otherwise good shape, its clean and shiny and has lots of compression.

Called K&B a few years ago and, not suprisingly, they didnt have any spare parts for 30 year old engines.

Is there anyone out there who could fabricate a new con-rod for me?

Thanks!

BLACK HAWK

I made a special kit for Virginia HobbySport for their Gilbert .11 engines, the offset was very radical to get the mufflers to alighn with the fuselage. I kept the plane light with a thin symmetrical airfiol. It is a good engine but do not think of it as a .15 or even a .10 but a mild .09 is about right.
Larry

Gee, I'm not the only person to have a Smoothie with a Stallion?
I've actually got 3 Stallions, one of them the stallion .35 R/C. I am currently flying the oldest of them, 1967, $6.95 at an LHS, on a Goldberg Shoestring. Was on my Smoothie from 1969 to about 1979, but switched to a McCoy to put the Stallion on a SAM OT R/C with an engine sut-off. Good match to the Shoestring, but the engine is starting to loose power and compression. Never made the mistake of running it on all synthetic fuel. On the OT, ran muffler pressure, no plastic insert, and an 11-5 prop, which usually tached about 11,800 on 10%. I recently got hold of a partially built up Olympic with a McCoy on it, but when I finish it it'll probably have the second CL Stallion.