To ARF or not to Arf

I guess that these planes fill a need for some people by getting them into the air. But for me half the fun of flying comes from taking a pile of wood and turning it into a plane. I can't help but wonder at how good of a deal these are when I read about all the things that have to be changed ie controls for the most part. It would seem that the ARC would be easier to work on and then cover it?

Bill

I don't know, Bill. Some days I feel like cutting and gluing and painting, just building. Other days I really don't. So I bought an ARF Flite Streak. I took my time and spent 4 or 5 hours getting it put together straight, improving the front end a little, and hinging the tail with pinned hinges. It flies great and I put it up at the end of the day for the "one more" flight, or like happened last week, after I hammered my Pathfinder. Fast, cheap, dirty and fun. Just a nice low emotion thing. Happy to have it as well as my hard earned kit or scratch planes. I don't feel conflicted about it. Why should I?

I think Bill's point was missed...if the ARF isn't perfect, doesn't the ARC version make it easier to fix what's perceived to be flawed? Yes, in my opinion, it does. Plus, I'm not too keen on film finishes, like to build, but the dust just kills me. I can cover, paint, do a little sanding of paint and not have the wood allergy issues. I hope. Also, I can dope in the basement, the wife will whine, and I will keep at it. Don't care, I'm about to trade her in on a new truck anyway. So, that's why I ordered a CardinARC from Leonard. True, the first one turned into an OrientARC, but it will still be useful. Steve

I have two ARCs which I plan to modify per suggestions on this forum. One ARF on the way which will be assembled ASAP so I can re-learn the pattern. Bunch of new stuff to try on each. Time >> Money! (Former way more important!) Then I can get on to the serious construction . . .

It's really too bad that the corner-cutting was deemed necessary, when a VERY few $$ more could have produced truly RTF models, without the need to re-do controls or engine mounts! C'est la vie.

I just had the thought, for those that don't know any better, these are just the ticket into control line flying. Look at RC(ugh). Also think about when some of us started. I didn't know Sterling made such lousy kits, as well as some other companys. I think Veco was the best at the time. I have an ARF Nobler very little done to it. Later, DOC

I don't know which "time" you were talking about, but Top Flite and Carl Goldberg were the class of the bunch with any airplane kit (still are). Midwest was just as good, but seems like they came along a lot later. Sterling had a knack for ruining good designs. If the Ringmaster wasn't so fundamentally sound, I don't know how they could've made it as long as they did. Veco was OK, but their kits were extremely complicated. Seems like the Thunderbird cowl had about 20-30 parts. That's probably an exageration, but it sure seemed that way.

Jetco was another one with poor quality - their plywood was worthless. More than even Sterling, though - their designs were the best, and you had to have 'em (Sharks, Nordic towline gliders, etc.).

>I think Bill's point was missed...if the ARF isn't perfect,
>doesn't the ARC version make it easier to fix what's
>perceived to be flawed? Yes, in my opinion, it does. Plus,
>I'm not too keen on film finishes, like to build, but the
>dust just kills me. I can cover, paint, do a little sanding
>of paint and not have the wood allergy issues. I hope. Also,
>I can dope in the basement, the wife will whine, and I will
>keep at it. Don't care, I'm about to trade her in on a new
>truck anyway. So, that's why I ordered a CardinARC from
>Leonard. True, the first one turned into an OrientARC, but
>it will still be useful. Steve
>
>http://www.nwskyraiders.com/index.html

Just do like I do tell her it smells just like fingernail polish (and it does in a modified way).

LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-04 AT 09:25 AM (CDT)
 
>I guess that these planes fill a need for some people by
>getting them into the air. But for me half the fun of flying
>comes from taking a pile of wood and turning it into a
>plane. I can't help but wonder at how good of a deal these
>are when I read about all the things that have to be changed
>ie controls for the most part. It would seem that the ARC
>would be easier to work on and then cover it?

I'm putting the finishing touches on a Brodak Cardinal and I didn't find much that needed replaced or re-engineered. In general, they've done a good job of deliverying an adequate product for the money. (Note I said adequate). I wouldn't have done some of the construction as they did, but it's adequate for the intended purpose.

The changes I made were to replace the CA hinges with pinned nylon hinges and machined an engine mounting plate (3/32" alum.)that holds the engine and then bolts flat to the fuse. using the existing threaded mounts.

My reasons for buying an ARF vs building are simple. Where I am on the "retread path" means that I will loose a few more planes before I'm back to where I was years ago. (Well I hope I'll get back to that point). I can buy a great flying plane for not much more than the price of a good kit. Spend 8 - 10 hours assemblying vs 200+ hours building from scratch. If I bend it... so what!.... I don't have much BS&T invested. Best $100 I've spent. I've put my scratch built stuff on hold until I'm ready.

So your question of "I can't help but wonder at how good of a deal these are when I read about all the things that have to be changed", I think the Brodak ARF's a pretty good deal and ideally suited to my purpose. I can't say the same for the Topflite Nobler... still have one in the box and everytime I start to work on it, I shake my head and close it up.... maybe someday.

Dick,
I don't understand your revulsion towards the Nobler. I have the Nobler and an Oriental ARF, and find the Nobler to be at least as well engineered as the Oriental, if not better, and with the exception of the bellcrank and leadouts needs all the same stuff replaced. I even replaced the leadouts on my Oriental, because although they are better than the Nobler, I found them and especially the crimping to be substandard. I actually think the Nobler is easier, and quicker to get up and running.

I'm building an ARF Cardinal but, I didn't buy one right away because of all the cross talk on the Nobler/flightstreak ARF.

Also, one thing I thought about is the question of how the workers are treated that build these planes. Does anybody know or care about that?

I ask myself if I would make someone an airplane like that for $100 and I have to say maybe for $200. It would be nice to know more about it.

In my case, I got a Nobler for Christmas. I had one about 40 years ago, and always said things about it, do my son had my wife get it.
It was a good way to get a good flying plane in the air when I really don't have the time to plans build one.
I would rather build, but this one I like for other reasons!
Bill <><
P.S. and it's even the same color as my original (almost)

I just opened up my Cardinal ARC last night and was impressed with the quality of construction. Maybe I could do it better myself, but this was not bad at all.

I built a Nobler ARF last year and the first thing I had to do was remove the covering. I really want to see what's under the skin when I'm planning to fly it for a while. My Nobler went together fine after that, but there were a few changes I felt had to be made for safety and longevity.

The ARC Cardinal does have better controls. I am not a fan of crimped, non-bushed leadouts, but will give these a chance. At least they are thick enough for safety. I built a Twister in 1977 and didn't bother to bush the controls. Why bother - I'll crash it soon anyway, right? Ooops, famous last words. It's still flying and when I finally cut into the wing to "fix" the controls, I discovered very little wear.

I also plan to bolt my engine directly to the fuselage instead of using the universal clamp. Those two nits aside, I almost have the doggone thing Ready to Cover already.

My kudos to John Brodak, Bob Zambelli, and the crew of tireless gnomes who have worked to put these things together. By my conservative estimate, they have saved me a month of work. I can better spend that time working on a nice full body PAMPA ship for next season.

Ron King