Thanks Len and members

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 05:08 AM (CDT)
 
Hey LN,

I want to thank you for removing the post that contained the racial epethet. You removed it, just as I was posting to the thread and I'm really glad that it's gone.

I also want to thank those of you who added your own messages, for taking the writer to task. As someone who has had to deal with race based hate and descrimination in real life, I found it painfull to see on display here.

Even though I know that plenty of people THINK that way, it's better not to have to HEAR it.

Later

BIGS

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

I agree wholeheartedly, no place for racism, we are all AMERICANS. Thanks to all, DOC

PS:Maybe I should we are all MODELERS.

'we are all AMERICANS'
At least a majority of you

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 02:52 PM (CDT)
 
I suppose this should just be left alone, and as I did not see the post referred to, will bow to the feelings expressed previous to mine.

However, I will tell one and all that I do not particularly care to celebrate, or in any way be associated with, Nazis, swastikas, or any products of the Nazi war campaigns of World War II.

Do they "offend" me? No. Most especially as the phrase "I'm offended by that," has been overused to the point of nearly having no specific meaning at all, people using it to describe something which might not be liked, but cannot possibly be seen as offensive to the same individual.

Still, I cannot be the only who cringes every single time I see a semi-scale CL Stunt model painted with *swastikas,* for God's sake!

I mean, just the other day a female friend pulled out the good ol' "That is offensive!" comment when a red-neck neighbor drove by in his pickup. The problem? A small confederate-flag stickie in his rear window.

><...>the Nazi war campaigns of World War I or <...>

Ooh, I get to catch Dan in a misteak!

>><...>the Nazi war campaigns of World War I or <...>
>
>Ooh, I get to catch Dan in a misteak!
>
>Preston
========================
Preston,

In our part of the English speaking world, we would refer to Dan's error as a mistake.

>In our part of the English speaking world, we would refer to
>Dan's error as a mistake.

Oh! Gosh!! Thanks!!!

I'm sorry; I shouldn't act like a jerk.
I often use the spelling "misteak" on purpose,
so people can smile a bit.

If you're going to misspell a word on purpose, for humor, or if quoting someone who misspelled the word, you put "(sic)" after it. That's so we know you're not the inept, unedjimicated (sic), one. I'd bet that Dan knows that.

I haven't talked at length to Dan about the infamous Swastika, so don't know why it is such a problem for him, but know it is. He probably knows it is a lot older than the 20th Century, and shows up often in ancient "First American" art. I take offense with "Native American", BIGS, simply because nobody was native, only first. He probably knows that the Finns used the Swastika also during WWII, but counter-rotation...as well as baby blue. I see nothing more sinister in the swastika than in the Maltese Cross or the red "meatball" (rising sun). I think it's a good thing that we remember those evil regimes, so we don't let them get too big for their britches again. Meanwhile, any CL or FF modeler is welcome in my house. R/C'rs who have never flown with escapements, Galloping Ghost, or reeds, will be viewed with suspicion. Steve

Playing devil's advocate ( or am I on the other side in this case?):
Having a swastika on a semi-scale model is (usually) a representation of historical accuracy. Having a southern flag on your pickup could well be a political statement of support for the goals of the secession. Big difference.
Pat MacKenzie

well we aint ALL americans....I am a Kiwi and ##### proud of it. I agree that there is no place for racist comments on this forum.....

as for the swastikas.....in Germany, they are not allowed to be seen AHYWHERE including on model aiplanes....how is that??? seems they would rather forget that side of their past.

if you want to get REAL pedantic about things...you may as well be "offended" by the peace sign...anit-religous symbol that it is, depicting the broken cross......but then again....just build and fly.....

that is what I intend to do......

>if you want to get REAL pedantic about things...you may as well be "offended" by the >peace sign...anit-religous symbol that it is, depicting the broken cross......

anit-religous ?????

Maybe anti-religious?

Having a southern
>flag on your pickup could well be a political statement of
>support for the goals of the secession. Big difference.
>Pat MacKenzie

Pat: Or it simply be a statement of regional pride. Currell

Currel,
True enough.But I think Dan lives in the NW, so I would assume his neighbor does as well.
And for some it is just a decoration and little thought is given to its display. Sort of a"Pickup Truck-Gun Rack-Southern flag-Dog in the back" cliche.

Things like this are always a matter of context. For example a swastika on a scale model is not the same thing as one tattooed onto someones forearms. I hesitated putting the notion of arm tattoos and swastikas in the same sentence, but I think it best illustrates my point.
Pat MacKenzie

So, my question is; does anyone know what SIC stands for? Is it a contraction or an acronym for something?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 08:14 PM (CDT)
 
>So, my question is; does anyone know what SIC stands for?
>Is it a contraction or an acronym for something?

In this usage, it's a Latin word.

A usage combat flyers and blues singers enjoy is "sic 'em",
which is just a variation of "seek".

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 07:49 PM (CDT)
 
I looked "(sic)" up, on dictionary.com, but already f'got! That in quotes below is copied and pasted from dicionary.com. Steve

"sic
\Sic\, adv. Thus.
Note: This word is sometimes inserted in a quotation , to call attention to the fact that some remarkable or inaccurate expression, misspelling, or the like, is literally reproduced."

http://www.nwskyraiders.com/index.html

(Sic) is the Latin word for "thus", meaning it was written or intended to be that way.

In this context, from dictionary.com:

sic adv.

Thus; so. Used to indicate that a quoted passage, especially one containing an error or unconventional spelling, has been retained in its original form or written intentionally.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 08:21 PM (CDT)
 
Hey steve!

So now I have to call myself a "First American", so you'll be able to understand who I'm refering to, huh?

Well, if it makes things easier for you foreigners (Who just happned to be born here!), I'll go along with it for the time being. LOL!!

Just don't call me an ^%#$$@&^, a *&%#^&^$, or a *^$^%%#.

BIGS

PS:

Do you think that it would be OK for me to decorate my Stuka Stunt with a traditional "Rolling Log" pattern? Then I could call it the "Navajo" variant and still use the kit decals!

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

And all these years I thought it meant "(s)pelling (i)n(c)orrect".

Hey Steve I flew a single channel on 6 meters with a Bonner S/N escapement in the winter of 1953-1954. I have photos and still have the model and radio to prove it.

As to swastikas, of course I know the form has been used for centuries. Still, swatikas mean something personal to me, and I do not like them. I feel no need to justify that statement further; no one should feel a need to air-brush them off a favorite model.

Still, there was an item of interest in my first post:

"I mean, just the other day a female friend pulled out the good ol' "That is offensive!" comment when a red-neck neighbor drove by in his pickup. The problem? A small confederate-flag stickie in his rear window."

Above was written that way for four reasons: 1) It is a true story; 2) there is a pejorative involved; 3) I wanted to see if anybody here would notice former point; 4) The situation was hilariously funny to me, as...

...my friend actually said, "Look at that red-neck with a confederate flag in his rear window. That is offensive!"

I was laughing so hard it was impossible to explain to her what was funny. The sad thing is that even after I explain it, she won't get it. Sigh.

Speaking of which, here is something else the same woman doesn't get: One of the people I admire most in Seattle can rightfully be referred to as an African-American. Coincidentally enough, his first name in Daniel. He was born in South Africa, emigrated to America, became a U.S. citizen. He is white. Not only is he white, he's a Jew. Not only is he white and a Jew, he's a rabbi. To push the issue further, not only is he white, a Jew, and a rabbi, he is also a conservative!

Never wonder why my head hurts when we see politically-correct speech put into play. And now you know at least part of the reasoning as to why I so rarely use such convoluted, frequently inaccurate, language.

Racism is not gone. It's now called racial profiling.

>Racism is not gone. It's now called racial profiling.

Then I take it you consider President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Democrat, a racist, because he racially profiled Japanese American during WWII and put them in Internment Camps?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-04 AT 04:28 PM (CDT)
 
>>Racism is not gone. It's now called racial profiling.
>
>Then I take it you consider President Franklin D. Roosevelt,
>Democrat, a racist, because he racially profiled Japanese
>American during WWII and put them in Internment Camps?

Tom,

Michelle Malkin has recently written a book on this very subject. It would interest you greatly.

Responding to silly comment about racial profiling is beneath you. No offense, my good friend.

Dan

edit to correct rilly stoopid (sic) spelling misteak (sic), Hello Preston...

Dan,

I have read some of Michelle's latest book and already knew much of what she has documented quite well in her best book so far. FDR had to make a tough decision based on the fact that over 50% of Japanese in the US swore allegiance to the Emperoror of Japan. I am thankful that today we do not have to do the same. It is a no win ugly prospect to consider.

If you are curious as to why I asked Fernando what I did, I adhere to the old axiom that wrong cannot prosper when it is confronted head on, only when good people do not do anything about it. Fernando has made a blanket assertion and he needs to clear it up.

Tom,
Just because you are not the one suffering the consequences, is not a reason for you to make blunt statements like that. There have been many mistakes made in this country, and to have a one track mind and not to admit the wrong(stay the course), prevents the progress of democracy and equality. Look around, see what's really going on. Sometimes the right thing is done for the wrong reason...Lot's of times! We still have a lot of work to do. Remember, we are a not only all americans, we are all Earthlings and part of the brotherhood of man. Whether we like it or not we are all the same.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-04 AT 10:50 AM (CDT)
 
Fernando,

I never made a blunt statement, in fact, I asked you to tell us all your opinion of what President Roosevelt did in WWII with regards to Japanese Americans. You have not answered the question. You made the blunt statement and now I am asking you to explain yourself.

>
>Tom,
>Just because you are not the one suffering the consequences,
>is not a reason for you to make blunt statements like that.
>There have been many mistakes made in this country, and to
>have a one track mind and not to admit the wrong(stay the
>course), prevents the progress of democracy and equality.
>Look around, see what's really going on. Sometimes the right
>thing is done for the wrong reason...Lot's of times! We
>still have a lot of work to do. Remember, we are a not only
>all americans, we are all Earthlings and part of the
>brotherhood of man. Whether we like it or not we are all the
>same.

This statement is not true and has been taken out of context for the following reasons:
You have to be more understanding of other cultures. Things take time. A lot of the people who came to this country did it for economic reasons not for allegiance to our president. Others were brought in as slaves, to build America. They were interned, put into reservations and gettos. That is sad. The poor mexicans who cross the border and die. Ask
any old japanese about those terrible days in america for minorities.
Some day you will understand.

Fernando,

You continue to avoid my question. When are you going to answer it?

>This statement is not true and has been taken out of context
>for the following reasons:
> You have to be more understanding of other cultures. Things
>take time. A lot of the people who came to this country did
>it for economic reasons not for allegiance to our
>president. Others were brought in as slaves, to build
>America. They were interned, put into reservations and
>gettos. That is sad. The poor mexicans who cross the border
>and die. Ask
>any old japanese about those terrible days in america for
>minorities.
>Some day you will understand.

Fernando, If the United States had not put the Japanese that were living here in concentration camps alot of them would have been killed. Animosity towards them was very high and it was for their protection that this was done. We were also afraid of the potential of sabotage. My Dad was a Pearl Harbor suvivor and the term "forgive" was something that he could never consider. Our goverment has paid a awful lot of those interned for the losses they suffered. How many families of our service men that were killed on Dec. 7, 1941 have been compensated for their loss by Japan?

Bill

Bill,
I could not agree more with your true and unbiased statements. I sympathize with your father's feelings.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-04 AT 05:32 PM (CDT)
 
Crash,

"Our goverment has paid a awful lot of those interned for the losses they suffered. How many families of our service men that were killed on Dec. 7, 1941 have been compensated for their loss by Japan?"

Where are you getting your information? My best friend for many years was a gentleman named Kaz Inouye, a very talented fashion and beauty photographer.

I first got into the photo game, I worked as his assistant. Through him I developed close friendships with quite a few Japanese and Japanese American people. For many years I raced sailboats as the only non-Japanese crewmen on boats that raced both the East Coast and West Coast circuits. I also worked for Japanese clients, shooting still photos and TV commercials.

Kaz, who was born and raised in Southern California by American-born Japanese parents, suffered several years of internment along with his parents, sisters and everyone else in his community. Their personal property was thrown into bonfires. They lost their farms, homes and businesses. Cars, and trucks were confiscated along with all of their farm equipment. In a word, they lost everything that makes a place "HOME".

Once these American Citizens were safely locked away, their homes and property were turned over to white Americans in exchange for their pledges to produce goods to support the war effort.

When World War II ended, Kaz joined the U.S. Army and was sent first to Korea to fight for our country and then to Japan to act as a translator, doing prisoner interrogations. Some five years later, he returned to civilian life is so many other soldiers did.

The Inouye family's property and business were never returned. Neither was anyone else's. Nor did he, or anyone else that we knew, ever received compensation for the time that they spend in America's concentration camps or for lost property. They were left to deal with their pain and suffering as best they could.

To have satisfaction, based on the idea that our country's debt to these Patriotic Americans has been paid, is false and ridiculous. These people were and are American Citizens. Many if not most of them, were educated in American schools, played baseball and payed taxes. They deserved the rights and protections afforded to all American Citizens. What they got was a prison camp in the Northwest.

To say that these people were stripped of their rights and property and put in concentration camps for their own protection, sounds a lot like the occasionally expressed idea that American Indians were impoverished, relieved of their lands and put on reservations "for their own protection".

Yes, a few elderly people got a little money but that can hardly be considered "compensation" for what they experienced at the hands of their government and the larger community.

If maintaining the view is that you express somehow lets you sleep better at night, go ahead. Unfortunately, the picture that you paint has little to do with a reality inhabited by real human beings.

BIGS

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-04 AT 06:49 PM (CDT)
 
Bigs, that may be true but you still haven't answered the question of how many who died at Pearl Harbor have had their families compensated? I can. None. I cannot change history anymore than you. I am not proud of all the things our Government has done to various ethnic groups. But it would seem as if you still have problems with the "white man". I hold no predudice towards anyone including the Japanese. I spent quite abit of time in Japan in the Navy and came real close to marrying a young lady there. Can't help the way my Dad felt about them. We all have our own way of thinking. Doesn't make it right but there it is. That time in our country can easily be compared to 9-11. There was'alot of hostile feelings for anyone from the Middle East after that. At least we didnt lock all of them up in camps. We just deal with things differently now and I hope that can be referred to as progress.
P.S. I sleep just fine at night.

Bill

It all seems to pretty much come down to a simple Democrat = Bad and Republican = Good, doesn't it, Tom? Fortunately, you and The Daniel are on the good side!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

Larry,

I never said any of what you imply. I said that President Roosevelt, a Democrat, interned Japanese Americans in WWII. Those are facts and irrefutable.

>It all seems to pretty much come down to a simple Democrat =
>Bad and Republican = Good, doesn't it, Tom? Fortunately, you
>and The Daniel are on the good side!
>
>[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]
>
>"The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive
>branch's job to interpret law." -George W. Bush, Austin,
>Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

The rolling log emblem is backwards too, it isn't a Swastika. Also, First American wouldn't apply as the 'Clovis Point People' were killed off or at least outperformed as there was no written history and therefore no account other than archeological, by the folks that were here before the European migration to North America started. Then again, what do you tell the folks in Europe who expanded and killed off Neanderthall man?

Whereever you go, no mater where on this earth, somebody or something done migrated there and took over. Same with Birds, Bees and everything else.

Ya know, millions of years ago, an organism evolved whose digestive bi-product was the very(at least then) poisenous Oxygen. Until then all lifeforms had gotten along together swimingly. Plants killed off a whole bunch of microbial life, at least that's what the Discovery channel said. Guess we should sue them. Can you imagine the size of the acrewed settlement? Somewhere I just sent a lawyers head to spinnin!

As a mostly Native-American and German person (a small bit of Welsh), I think I'm in trouble. I come from some of the most conquered people in history.

Sigh...

>As a mostly Native-American and German person (a small bit
>of Welsh), I think I'm in trouble. I come from some of the
>most conquered people in history.
>
>Sigh...

Nicely explains some of your recent results in Expert PA. Even if I was not one of the conquering at Fall Follies.

Again, many congratulations on the USA-1. Still think you've got better props for it, even if Resinger-produced wood 3-blade piece is purely bitchen...

Dan,

Yea, I have a stack of props to try, but the paint was barely dry for the Fall Follies. The Resinger specil worked ok and I had other things to mess with. Over the winter we'll see what we get. Be ready for a finely tuned machine at the Regionals next year. <grin>