Scientific Stuntmaster for 049s

There is a Scientific Stuntmaster kit for sale on ebay. Ready to "go off" in 3-4 hours; now bidding is at $68, if you can believe that. I am not touting this ebay item; rather, it made me curious. Isn't there some kind of an old time u/c contest for the Scientific "log" kits? Or is it a semi-scale contest? Or have I lost my mind? And, is the Stuntmaster, ala Scientific, a very good airplane? The picture looks pretty good. Go to here to see it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5928191429&ssPageName=ADME:B:WN:US:1

Somehow I have this thought that somewhere in the east there is an annual u/c event where all airplanes must be versions of scientific "log" type airplanes, and there was some rule about what the engine has to be...a Cub, or something....? Anybody care to comment...?

Nick Vanmatre

The Stuntmaster was "upscale" in that cost $1.98 instead of the usual $1.49.

Basically it was a "hollow log" with a 1" solid flap added to the usual 18 x 3 wing. Not much more aerobatic than a Ford Fliver or any of the other 20-odd styles.

I'm waiting for a Scientific Cadet to come up. They REALLY flew. I'd pay ANYThING for one of those.

Talk about appreciation.

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"Nostalgia is a seductive liar." -George W. Ball

Yes, it has appreciated. $1.98 to $68+? but, I still want to know about that annual Scientific "log" contest? What engine? Airplanes? Or am I still losing my mind?
Nick Vanmatre

Nick, you can find the rules on our club site
http://nvclclub.tripod.com
There is also a Musciano event on the West Coast(or there was last year)
And believe it or knott, these hollow log things can perform pretty good for what they are, but have to be built light. Just ask Currell or V12 if a hollow log can be made to perform...
You can check this site for West Coast action:
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Musciano.htm

At one of the Musciano Meets, I asked Walt Musciano which of the 70 some Hollow Logs eligible for the Meet, which one was the best stunter. He quickly said the Stuntmaster. I scratch built one a couple of years ago, but never wrung it out.

By the way, that "flap" that ama mentions is fixed. What it does is complete the wing on the TE side.

There are other Stuntmasters:

Giant Stuntmaster: 42" built up wing, profile.

Stuntmaster (1948) formed fuselage, built up wing.

Super Stuntmaster 20" span, built up wing, Hollow Log fuselage.

Baby Stuntmaster 16" span, solid wing, built up fuselage.

I kind of think that the Bullet has more potential as a stunter, with its 23" span. Or the Cyclone, at 21". I have scratch built both, but have much work to do before being competitive in this event.

Ebay is going through a Scientific Hollow Log boom of late. Like: a Golden Hawk at over $260, a Gee Bee at over $100, etc. If you have a Dremel hobby saw, you can make the Hollow Log fuselages without too much trouble. Your entire material costs for the entire plane, even using contest balsa, wouldn't be much over $1.

And keep an eye out for derelict ones at swaps, garage sales, in attics, on ebay even. They go for a song, and you can strip them down, disassemble, and start over. That saves you work on the hardest part, which is the Log.

Some guy who takes his Musciano contests pretty seriously just bought the STUNT MASTER. I wonder if he plans to fly it at the NVCL Musciano meet next September...

I hope that my putting this topic on SSW didn't increase the competition/price for the ebay kit. I really didn't want to do that. I was hoping that my question would get some response, and I am pleased that it did. I see that, in fact, there are two different competitions. I seem to recall the one I was referring to was the Musciano competition. I thank all that contributed info.

Ok, say I wanted to build one...but couldn't afford $68 to $260 for a $1.98 kit on ebay. How could one get a plan for one of the kits? Does anyone sell those plans? Leonard? If yes, I will get one from you.

You can check this site for West Coast action:
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Musciano.htm

Hey Smitty,
Would you perhaps know WHICH models placed in the "Speed Event", particularly the FIRST few places? THANKS MUCH ...... these are the BEST photos I have seen yet from a Scientific / Musciano Contest coverage ...... many compliments to the photographer, I can actually SEE the many aircraft's details as I much appreciatively yearn to remember them as when I was a kid ..... THANKS again!!

With regards to what the log kits are bringing on eBay, I sold a partial Little Bipe just the other day for $36.00. I loved it.

BLACK HAWK
Black Hawk Models produces a line of the "Hollow Log" kits and Walter Musciano is employed by them to assist in the design department. Our kits have been accept in the Musciano Contest in Virginia ( the ones that were designed by Walt) and I expect that the Ca. contest will do the same. We do all of the hard work, carving and hollowing, and we band saw out allof the other parts. We supply a complete hardware kit that includes "Perfect" wheels, "Dubro" collars, and even a wing weight along with the usual "Sig" bellcrank and screws. The changes that we made is that we have a better hinge system for the elevator and' in the case of the Stunt Master we add the 1" strip to the leading edge to creat a better airfoil and stronger wing. Contact me for a free catalog. Yes anouther comercial!
Larry

Larry,
Is there a website for the Black Hawk Models? I have googled, but I have not had any luck...
Thanks,
Nick Vanmatre

BLACK HAWK

Nick, I do not have a web site, Virginia Hobbysport does carry about 1/2 of our line and they do have a web site. i do send out FREE 7 page catalogs that include "Log " kits, large trainers, NEW fun combat wings, Whip powered models, and tethered fliers. I will also E-mail pictures of any one to five of my kits.

Larry,

When you first started sending out catalogs, I got one. From reading it I got the impression that only the wood was included and you had to buy the hardware separately.
If I understand the info above correctly, the wood and hardware are both included in a kit, correct?

Thanks,
George

With regards to what the log kits are bringing on eBay, I sold a partial Little Bipe just the other day for $36.00. I loved it.
>
>Tom

Tom, I built a couple of these from plans last winter. One powered by a Spitzy .045 and the other by a Babe Bee. Already had everything except some paint.
Nostalgia! Sigh....

Yes, and I know the &&^% fool that bought it. Have you sent it yet?

I guess nobody read the post I sent about a gentleman that produces plans for Scientific kits. In fact he is looking for a couple of kits I never heard about to complete hit collection. My email: [email protected] if you want his email and/or address. Later, DOC:)

Yes, but a Golden Hawk 'Log' recently went for more than $260.00. Pristine box and all the parts. Quite an investment. $2.00 to $260.

I have the Super Stunt master with the build up wing. I am flying it now with a Fox .049 on it. Seems pretty good in the air but I am afraid to do any stunts with it. Feels like it is going 100 mph on 35' lines. Might be a little on the heavy side at 8 oz with Brodak yellow over silkspan.

Jay

BLACK HAWK (SORRY THIS IS A REPEAT OF AN EARLIER MESSAGE--OooPs)
Nick, I do not have a web site, Virginia Hobbysport does carry about 1/2 of our line and they do have a web site. i do send out FREE 7 page catalogs that include "Log " kits, large trainers, NEW fun combat wings, Whip powered models, and tethered fliers. I will also E-mail pictures of any one to five of my kits.

Another Stunt Master has been listed on EBay. Don't let this one get away. Larry Lindburg

Injunnut1 was asking about the planes in the speed event. Here are the top three,
1. Currell Pattie, ME-109, Fox .049
2. Bob Morse, Red Devil, Fox .049
3. Dr. Frank Iacobellias, ME-109, Fox .049
(Do you see the trend here, I think the speed guys like the Fox)
Here is the rest of the top three in the rest of the events:
Appearance
1. Vaughn Rockney P-6E Hawk
2. Henry Werner Forker DR-1
3. Bob Zambelli Bullet
Stunt
1. Bob Zambelli, Bullet, OK Cub B
2. Scott Richlen, Atomic X, Cox Babe Bee
3. Jim Coll, Cyclone, Cox Babe Bee
Team Race
1. Henry Werner, Zig-Zag, Golden Bee
2. Von Rockney, Zig-Zag, Cox Babe Bee
3. Dr. Frank Iacobellias, Golden Hawk, Cox Babe Bee
Overall
1. Von Rockney
2. Henry Werner
3. Bob Zambelli
Musciano Unlimited
1. Bob Zambelli, Stunt Rocket, Anderson Spitfire
2. Von Rockney, Built up wing P-51D, Cox Babe Bee
3. Scott Richlen, Space Invader, Cox Babe Bee

I do not have any of the finish times for the race events, but you can ask Currell what he ran, and that will give you something to shoot for.

injunnut asked about the Speed event, so I will give a few of my opinions here:

1. The Fox engine is a must, but do not think of this event as purely a function of the engine. Acceleration is important, since this is a Proto (standing start) event. The model should be built with weight in mind, and drag kept to minimum. Obvious stuff, but often overlooked.

2. I am partial to the ME-109. It has a small (45 sq. in.), high aspect ratio wing. An ME-109 has won every year from 2001 on, with the exception of 2002, when a Red Devil won. A Red Devil was second this year, by the way. I have competed three different ME-109s, and got the best time (30.1 seconds for a half mile, just under 60 mph) with the heaviest one, built from a kit (the other two were scratch). This was due to a good needle setting that still had some way to go. (In '02, I was on a pace well below 30 seconds (according to the timers) when, on lap 7, the bellcrank pulled out. Lesson learned.

3. Other choices for speed, besides the ME-109 and Red Devil: Atomic, Combat Master (a guess here, if you make a nice cowl; wing area is on the high side at 71 sq in), Ford Flivver (Hal Howard has one),Little Devil, Little Mustang, Flying Tiger, Red Flash (even though it is a high wing; sq in only 52).

4. Some more choices, here with larger wings, but a good engine (and needle) can make these competitive: Golden Hawk (won Speed in 2000), even though it has "drag" (of sorts) from the two windshields, Little Mercury, Lucky Racer. Maybe a Zig Zag.

5. If you don't see your favorite here, just pick a model among the 71 eligible models with modest wing area, and low parasite drag. No bipes of course, no struts, braces, jet pods (B-66), radial cowls, other miscellania. Just like a real airplane...

6. Have a design and builder's mindset similar to that of an AMA Mouse Racer, Proto competitor, Speed guy. You are thinking props, lines, alignments, leadouts. It's a Gestalt thing...

7. The Second Generation Fox with the flutes on the case maybe has a 500 rpm advantage over the Gen One model. But this can be noise level (literally and figuratively) when compared with needle setting and model characteristics.

On a personal note, I am planning a new ME-109 for '05, with some improvements in some of the above. Sure would like to crack 30 seconds!

Currell (get those carving tools out)

Currell,
Question about the Fox. You don't mean the FAI version, do you? (That can still be bought from someone who has a bunch of parts, I seem to recall.)
Nick Vanmatre

No. The FAI version is not legal for the Musciano Meet Hollow Log contest.

However, there is a more casual, Unlimited competition, separate from the concours/speed/stunt/team race part for Hollow Log 1/2As where you can use any engine you desire, as long as it is on a Musciano design. So the FAI would be fine here.

I don't know if you would want to bring a Dyna-Jet, though (yes, a jet P-80 Shooting Star is in one of Walt's books).

Actually, I won the speed event a few years ago with an F7U powered by an OK Cub .049. It really screamed. The Atomic-X is an exellent stunter for a slab wing, hollow log. I always do quite well with mine even though I am powering it with an old Golden B. I think that Dan Banjock won stunt a couple of years ago with a Fox .049 powered Atomic-X.

Also, on the Black Hawk kits. They are only as legal as they correspond in dimension and shape to Walt's original plans.

Scott

How can you tell the FAI version from the regular Fox .049?

The FAI has a high venturi, reaching all the way to the lowest cylinder cooling fin. It has a matte finish, too. Currell

>The FAI has a high venturi, reaching all the way to the lowest cylinder cooling fin. It has a matte finish, too.
>Currell

And it GOES!