Webra 32-pipe set/up

Friends,
I remember Robby Hunt flying a small version-(Randy S.-Webra 32-w/pipe)Europa 10 yrs ago-Very nice flying ship..However, has anyone used Webra 32 W/pipe or OS 32-ABC-W/pipe more recently?. If you have , what was the outcome?????Thanks David.....

My first pipe plane was on OS 32. Used the pipe that Randy Smith suggested. Finding the right pitch on the prop took the most time.
I was at 4000' at the time. Ended up with 11 x 4.75 on a Bolly.

Robert
Say more----What was the model etc--Squares etc----Were you happy with results-etc???I am considering a small piped ship right now..I am struggling w/energy to build big stunter..I understand some of the negative concerning small stunt ships--What is interesting is I remember being beat by and watching Robby fly his Europa..Which suggests that the model/set up is/was competitive. Did you experience nose weight issues w/wrap around????David

Again (broken record) talk to Randy, Dondi Garrison used a Thunder Tiger 36 in a Vector and kicked some serious but for a while

Have you thought about the Magnum .36 with no pipe? I can say from exeperience that using it with no pipe and run like recommended here on the board is strong.

Also an Aero Tiger .36 is in incredible motor.

Jim
Thanks for your help...I have a Vector W/At 36--I like it very much--However, My thoughts and feelings are that to be taken seriously-(expert competition), and I am open to counter thoughts, a piped ship of some sort is necessary.... Aside, from the fact that they preform better, (again my belief) for what I am trying to acheive,....I like P Grandersons' Magnum 36 pipe too...I guess i can go in a few directions..Trying to open myself up to building something..Who knows what I will decide....Thanks much David......

hey this is Aaron, i guess maybe you saw Jim in one of my posts?

anyway, i am with you, i am building a Satana which is one of Randy's smaller ships it is around 640 squares and after watching Derek Bary and Dale Bary and Curt Contrata and Gene Martin and recently Bob Hunt fly planes this size it seems that a smaller plane can be very competitive.

many times i have thought about putting together a europa myself with the magnum in it just because the little planes do seem to cut thru the junk better...

anyway please let us know what you find out and which way you go!!

Jim
I flew at Clovis W/AT 36 Vector--I did not have enough time to really adjust to all the changes that Brett/myself did On Sat before contest..However, when I got home I flew this plane again..The plane really preforms well...That Europa was an excellent airplane--I competed against it before....The whole idea of building a smaller airplane for some reason has me motivated..Watching J. Armors little Gieske nobler hit an hourglass-(in terrible conditions) pushes me even more......I know I can put a smaller ship together quicker/lighter, and I also believe that I can trick with it as well or better than larger ship.....The issue Jim is always how will it be preceived?????????If you notice the pattern, young Jr..do really well w/small ships, however, adult big kids usually do not!!!!Figure that one out.....I was talking to R.Campbell about this issue..I have been around stunt long enough to notice "patterns"
Yes Dondi Garrison did kick butt, but M. Rogers always struggled W/smaller ships at expert level, and he was an excellent flyer.......Anyway, i am open to playing around with this issue...A small piped Vector or Europa or whatever would be interesting to say the least.....Randy told me that the Vector-(small version) was too small for Ultra lite 40..I was going to maybe go that route..That is why I mentioned the OS 32 & Webra 32 on the thread...Thanks DAvid

David...
I would say that the notion of a tuna pipe as a necessity for being "taken seriously" is pretty far fetched.....it's about performance. If you can achieve great performance with an electric motor (they'll be LEGAL in 2005), then go there.
I do believe that, perhaps, judges are looking for a larger airplane .......and a tuna-piped .32 won't haul a big plane around like a bigger powerplant.
Watch the classifieds here...there have been a great many bargains in OS .46 / .40 engines, with pipes sometimes, and even exceptional prices on PA's or RO Jett's....

See Ya

Thanks Rich,
i
I know, sometimes I am far-fetched......What the heck...I do hold in some of my convictions, which are soley based on observations/experiences of watching stunt move through its own growing pains....Windy was also precived as weird when he was playing w/Sweeper technology...Lets go all the way to other extreme Rich-LOL--(Baby Clown-25vf-pipe)Regard DAvid

>counter thoughts, a piped ship of some sort is necessary....
>Aside, from the fact that they preform better, (again my
>belief) for what I am trying to acheive,....

David, may I suggest a VERY simple way(in my humble opinion) to get the performance you're looking for:

Get plans for a standard Vector, Randy's PA40UL, build it and go KICK SOME BUTT!!!!! I've seen this combination do some SERIOUS damage up here in New England. Better yet, get Rick to ship his plane to you.

Steven Yampolsky

Yeah Robbie used the Webra .32 for a while then went to the HP 40 to a pipe because of the power upgrade.

I would talk to Randy, he has one of the most in depth knowledge of engines of any one i have talked to.

Also Tom Hampshire uses/used the Webra .32 and is pretty familiar with it as well. (Another smart engine guy)

Jim Moraway(sp?) from the MI area was using one also.

EDIT: Robbie used a canted(sp?) engine with one of Bob's engine mounts where it screwed into the engine back plate etc. He did not use a wrap around header in the Europa.

Let us know what you find out!

Thanks Jim,
I will chat W/Randy before I decide to move forward--Just checking around for different thoughts/opinions concerning the topic...What is interesting is that his little "Europa" was really nice..He had the luxary of having his Dad help set it up, but the model really preformed, even in difficult conditions....I will talk W/tom too.....Thanks DAvid

Yeah at the time the pipe was really coming into presence and there was some teeth cutting issues with that plane/pipe/engine, mostly just because they were so cutting edge, out there where no one else was.

also check into the 25VF it is a NICE motor and Billy Werwage was using one at one point on something around the same size as an Ares and had VERY favorable things to say.

I ran the OS .32 for some time and really liked it, but the Magnum in the same airplane made it better, and the AeroTiger in that airplane was not so much better as just a better stunt run.

you know,

I've been thinking about the 25VF too. If it rurns like the 40vf it should be a killer in a small airframe!

>you know,
>
>I've been thinking about the 25VF too. If it rurns like the
>40vf it should be a killer in a small airframe!

Well Billy on one of Bob Hunt's videos said that he wanted to develop the 25vf more but just could not at the time.

Mike Starrett(sp?) had the Eliminator which used the 25VF rather well.
There is a Spitfire out there somewhere with one also i believe.

my recollection is 10X3 APC with the 32 size pipe at around 12,200 RPM... again i defer to Randy as he has always had an answer for ANY engine question I have ever had.

Jim,
Read my prior thread for you..What do you think?????The issue of smaller airplane why and howcomes...Hearing that B. Werwage was thinking about/experiementing with 25vf is very enlightening....Thanks DAvid.

>>you know,
>>
>>I've been thinking about the 25VF too. If it rurns like the
>>40vf it should be a killer in a small airframe!
>
>
>Well Billy on one of Bob Hunt's videos said that he wanted
>to develop the 25vf more but just could not at the time.
>
>Mike Starrett(sp?) had the Eliminator which used the 25VF
>rather well.

>my recollection is 10X3 APC with the 32 size pipe at around
>12,200 RPM... again i defer to Randy as he has always had an
>answer for ANY engine question I have ever had.

That's the way Mike Starret was runnin' his .25.

Bill Werwage was revin' 10,000 using an APC 10 X4.

Ion,
You know I have spoked in great length W/Randy..He has been and always is helpful w both his opinion and tech advice...My only issue W/the smaller plane is how will it be preceived?????I am not a aeronautucal engineer, so as far as will the plane preform like a larger one, based physics etc..I do not know..What I believe at some level, is from a "visual" perspective it may not!!!!!!I do not want to ignore this aspect....I like the ecomonics of a smaller plane...I always felt more comfortable flying smaller airplanes, the line tension issue, etc....Easier to build, paint, etc...M. Rogers, and excellent flyer seemed to fall into the smaller model approach.He felt they could preform as well or better...His 46 PM were nice flying ships, however, I do not believe they were as preceived as well as the larger PM's......When he brought out his 46 PM back in the 90's people actually joked indirectly about them...I really like the idea of experimenting W/the 25VF..I guess I do not feel capable of being the quote, "The Pioneer"; because pioneers always get arrows in the head!!!-LOL.. I guess the current trend or pattern is slowly moving back to smaller ships, maybe I am wrong..It is what I see thats all....Let T. Fancher, B. Werwage. B. Buck, & B. Hunt, be the pioneers, it seems to always work better..Then I can follow..LOL...
I think what is interesting, correct me if i am wrong..It was Dean Pappas RC guy who initiated the pipe evolution, along W/B. Hunt and others..Where am I going w/this..Anyway thanks for the response..If you have or anybody has any experience W/25VF like to hear it....

Well, David,

there are rumors (you can say gossip) that Mike Starret, in spite if benig a top class pilot and having a superb (performancewise) ship, became desilusioned because he felt the size of his ELIMINATOR was hurting his scores.

It seems, though, that bigger ships "present" (whatever that means) better.

A far as performance is concerned, the OS.25VF with a pipe and a 10X3 or 10X4 APC prop is great!

It has enough power to pull any ship that a good unpiped .40 would be able to haul.

I have been using one for a couple of years, and it's a reliable setup. It's nor as weather sensitive as the PA engines, it starts at the first or second flip and with 16 3/4 " pipe and a 10X3 APC it'll run on the 12,000 rpm neighborhood really well.

I prefer 15 % nitro, with 22% castor/synth (50%50) oil.

You can call me a happy camper!

I'm finishing a Chizler that I think is gonna fly pretty darn well!

Hi Bigs,
This Aaron's (not to be confused with "jim" ) Dad. I have talked with Mr. Werwage a bit about his Perroquet, which he has a 25VF in. It is pretty much the Ares size, and he originally used a HP 40 in it (no pipe) at the '76 WC. Mike Starret published the Eliminator in FM for the 25VF pipe set up. It is a VERY viable set up.
I have an old Ares that is in need of a rebuild and it will get the 25VF/pipe this time around. Not for use in Classic.
We used the OS 32 with a pipe on a profile (Prowler based), and it did real well. BUT, the Magnum 36 is a stronger engine, verified by Keith Varley and his Saturn with the Magnum/pipe.
The Webra 32 tends to be happy running much higher rpm range than either the OS 32 or the Magnum 36XLS.
Bill <><

HI David

When we were discussing size of planes in emails, the one I recomended based on you wanting a quick small easy to build plane was ,
The first VECTOR, is 627 sq in and 57 inch span. it is a mid size plane that I recommended to you. It is capable of winning anything out there and is not as much to build as a large plane. It is perfect for a PA 40 UL and many other engines. The PA 40 UL is not too big for a 40 size small VECTOR...what I said was
"""The 40 would be almost too big on the small Vector 40."""
The engine is very tailorable to many size planes, and you could use it on a Vector 40 or Europa if so inclined. However IMHO the Regular Vector would look more impressive. I had mentioned Rick C. had one and suggested you talk to him to get his opinion about that combo

As always if I can help you I will be happy too

Regards

Randy

627 VECTOR

I've attached a picture showing my first pipe plane with the OS 32.
My own design with the engine canted - just like the Europa.

Thanks Robert

However, please tell me the wing area,span length., etc.....Very nice looking ship....Would you build another one, or do you believe that you peronally exceeded what you could accomplish w/set up..??What year was or did you compete with it in??Thanks David

This was in 1995-1996, so I'm not exact in the details. I gave the plane away in 1998 and sold the engine in 2000.
From what I remember- span 54"
area around 610 sq in
c tube spar
16.5" tale moment
weight around 49 oz.
As I moved on to my sucessful Cobra 9 afterwards using an OPS 40,
I don't see myself going back to the smaller engine. With the Aero 40 lite and RO Jett 40 weighing about the same and producing more power,
I don't see the point.
However, if I still had the engine and plane, I would not have a problem
using it in contests.

I'm currently building a 610 square inch, piped .40 plane. Just about ready to assemble. I'll post some progress pictures here later (I have to take them first). It's imspired by the Europa/Saturn idea, anyway, though it's my own design and doesn't look much like them. Should be fun.

For those that asked about the hatch idea:

Robert, are you the one that had a FW 190 ? Maybe you would expand onthis nice looking plane for the rest of us.