Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 40 of 40 known posts recovered
Tight Lines,
Tom
The remaining mixture used in the crock pot goes back into a plastic 1 gallon anti-freeze jug for use the next time. It is not thrown out. A 50/50 mix of water to anti-freeze is the normal mix I use. This is near enough the same as you would use in your car or truck cooling system. In auto sevice the coolant last for months or years, so no need to toss it out in model service either. When you empty your crock-pot simply towel out the mung that remains in the bottom of the pot. "CAUTION WILL ROBINSON" (robot waving both pincers in the air here) DO NOT STORE THE CROCK POT SOLUTION, OR ANY ANTI-FREEZE TYPE SOLUTIONS FOR THAT MATTER, WHERE KIDS AND ANIMALS CAN GET INTO IT!!!" Anti-freeze, glycol based, will kill the family pet if ingested. Hear tell it's not a pretty sight. Like any other model related chemical, keep this stuff stored in a safe place away from the pets and kids. Think "top shelf" or "locked paint locker" here.
HTH
Tony
CAUTION WILL ROBINSON" (robot waving both pincers in the air here) DO NOT STORE THE CROCK POT SOLUTION, OR ANY ANTI-FREEZE TYPE SOLUTIONS FOR THAT MATTER, WHERE KIDS AND ANIMALS CAN GET INTO IT!!!" Anti-freeze, glycol based, will kill the family pet if ingested. Hear tell it's not a pretty sight. Like any other model related chemical, keep this stuff stored in a safe place away from the pets and kids. Think "top shelf" or "locked paint locker" here.
HTH
Tony
I had a friend decide that it was better to cease living and took anti freeze. It worked and it wasn't pretty. There wasn't a stretch mark on him he was so bloated. Do not ever get careless around this stuff. You have no idea how little of it is lethal. For a pet, a teaspoonful.For an adult a tablespoon or so can do it. Believe it or not the hospitals do get a few cases a year of people who have mild toxic reactions to the stuff from the vapors,or somehow getting very small amounts into the system.
Dennis
I use the standard Prestone Glycol type (green), full strength. I use the minimum required to cover the parts, and then rinse it down the sink with lots of water when I rinse off the engine. I have no desire to store yucky antifreeze. I always use fresh, it's cheap enough. And it cleans the same every time. I rinse the parts in hot water and use lots of air tool oil. If I cannot get to re-assembling the engine right away, I "pickle" it in a jar of liquid WD-40, which is also cheap in gallon cans at the Home Depot. This works well to ensure that all the moisture is displaced from the metal. Acutally a quick WD-40 bath is good in any event since it stops any possible corrosion.
I also sometimes brighten up the castings with a little Hippach "Simi Chrome" metal polish and a soft rag. Works great on bright castings like McCoy crankcases. Fox castings typically look fine without further polish, since they are not bright and shiny to begin with.
Remember, antifreeze will remove any paint and destroy plastic, including Nylon.
I just finished up another McCoy 35 RH. They look really nice all clean with new paint on the cylinder head.
Andy
When done I pour the anti-freeze back into the jug, fill the can with hot water and a bit of dish soap and use a small brass brush to scrub the remaining grime off. Soapy / dirty water goes down the drain, engine gets oiled up with Marvel Air Tool oil, and life is good. A gallon of 50/50 anti-freeze water will last almost forever this way, you only loose a spoonful or so each time you cook something.
This is Marvel Air Tool oil and is very different from Marvel Mystery Oil. I got a quart can with a spout like on 3-in-one oil at my auto parts store. But I have seen smaller cans of this stuff at Wal-Mart on occasion. Tool supply stores might also have it.
OK so far ,but***
***
>and then rinse it down the sink with lots of water when I
>rinse off the engine. I have no desire to store yucky
>antifreeze.
This could get you in BIG trouble.Ethylene Glycol is a pollutant which is regulated severely.Whether you desire to store it or not,it should disposed of by taking it to the proper recycling center,or to an auto shop where they'll dispose of it for you. NEVER pour it down the drain.
I "pickle" it in a jar
>of liquid WD-40, which is also cheap in gallon cans at the
>Home Depot. This works well to ensure that all the moisture
>is displaced from the metal. Acutally a quick WD-40 bath is
>good in any event since it stops any possible corrosion.
See message #2 above, Read & Heed.
>
>I also sometimes brighten up the castings with a little
>Hippach "Simi Chrome" metal polish and a soft rag. Works
>great on bright castings like McCoy crankcases. Fox
>castings typically look fine without further polish, since
>they are not bright and shiny to begin with.
>
>Remember, antifreeze will remove any paint and destroy
>plastic, including Nylon.
>
>I just finished up another McCoy 35 RH. They look really
>nice all clean with new paint on the cylinder head.
>
>Andy
ALL the above is greatly simplified by using dishwasher detergent instead of antifreeze. It works as well,is readily available(your wife pays for it) and it's biodegradeable,so you can dump it down the drain.
For storage; if you're going to run it soon,use after-run or tool oil;if you're storing it for a long period,it;s hard to beat
"LPS-2".
Ron B.
Ron B.
F4Fguy
Well, if that's the case, I'll save it and turn it in on "hazardous materials day", as I already do with used oils, thinner, paint, etc.
As for WD-40, the stories I have heard involve using WD-40 for corrosion protection in place of a quality oil like air tool oil during long-term storage. For sure the parts will corrode in a damp environment; it does not offer enough protection. Useless as an after-run oil for this reason. But I've never seen any problem with metal parts *immersed* in it. It also makes a good mild solvent for removing varnish if it is not too hard. Often a soak in WD-40 and a toothbrush are all that's needed to remove light varnish.
So, I keep hearing that WD-40 is awful stuff, and I will ruin anything I use it on, but I have never had a problem. How about some *specific* problems that have been encountered, and the *exact circumstances* under which the damage occurred? I'll stop using it if someone can explain what harm is being done.
Andy
Nick,
GOOD questions! The black cylinder fins, black needle valves, and black oxide screws are un-affected by the treatment. I assume the fins are also a black oxide finish. For sure they are *not* painted. They come out clean, and *black*. The paper gaskets are also fine. Most of my engines don't come all the way apart either, and end up with gaskets stuck to one part or another, and they have shown no degradation in the antifreeze. So black oxide finish is fine, paper gaskets are fine. The antifreeze takes the red paint off down to bare metal. It literally rinses off. Then you repaint with Duplicolor Ford Red Engine Enamel for a really nice new finish. I also dust on a coat of the Duplicolor grey engine primer under the red for better durability and adhesion. I thread a junk glow plug in from the *bottom* of the head to keep paint out of the threads. I made a block of wood with a recess drilled for the plug so the head can sit flat while I spray it. Go outside on a nice day, and put on several *thin* coats with about 10 minutes to set up between them. You can bake the enamel in a 200 degree oven for 1/2 hour after it is dry to the touch, to speed the cure. Or be like me and let it sit around a couple of weeks before you get around to putting it back together!
Andy
Edit: Just to belabor the point, I too treat the antifreeze as extremely poisonous. My crock pot is labeled "Danger Poison Not for Food!" and stored in the garage. I do all my engine washing etc. in my utility sink, *never* in the kitchen. I always unplug the crock pot and let it cool completely before removing the parts. I never handle hot parts or antifreeze. In fact, I never open the lid to the crock pot while it is hot--too many nasty fumes. And of course, cooking is done in the garage, never in the house.
Tony
Thanks Tony!
This makes sense. I don't rely on thin films of the stuff for long-term protection. I only use it as a "soak" and so far, so good.
I would speculate that your problem arose because you trapped a significant amount of water in the sealed containers along with the parts. It is my habit to leave engines/parts dry out for a few days before putting into any sealed environment, precisely because I worry about trapping moisture in with the engine. In fact, most of my engines are covered with a plastic bag open at one end (on the front of the model) to keep dust off but still allow them to "breath" I rely on the oil in/on the engine to prevent corrosion, not a sealed container. The paper towels might be a dicey proposition too. If they somehow got damp with water...
A lot of the fellows here advocate drying the parts in a 200 degree oven to be sure all the moisture is out before assembly/storage. Maybe that would have helped in your case. No moisture, no corrosion.
I think that we all agree that WD-40 should never be trusted to prevent corrosion in a thin-film application. I really use it more as a solvent than an oil. I'm using air tool oil for corrosion protection, and it seems good: thick persistent film and so far, no corrosion. I'm going to look into the Rislone, since it seems to be the gold standard for preventing corrosion long term. And the LPS products are easy to come by too.
What I really have learned from all this is that the delicate metal castings and turnings our engines are made of are actually quite chemically reactive and fragile. Metal is really pretty delicate stuff if you want to keep it corrosion free. The aluminum castings want to discolor if you just look at them funny. And surface rust forms with depressing speed!
Andy
Tony
Years ago I used LPS-2 to preserve and protect tools and firearms. Today, I use Break Free CLP and am very pleased with its performance. For engine storage, I use either Rislone (per GMA) or Marvel air tool oil. I wonder if Break Free CLP might be another alternative for our engines? A Google search of its properties suggests that it has many, if not all, the properties that we are looking for. Gary
Some second thoughts: What, if any, is the difference between "after run oil" and "storage oil?" My assumption would be that "after run" would be used at the end of a flying session and that "storage" would be for the indefinite protection of an engine
I've been using the same ethylene glycol anti freeze in the same pot for over a year now. Of course I keep it out of reach for anyone , that includes the Mrs. Once or twice (not sure) I emptied it and ran it through a simple strainer to keep out the big gloops. No, I don't mix mine with anything, 100% straight from the jug. When ever I need an engine cleaned, I take off the head, remove the back plate, and remove the carb or venturi. Make sure you don't cook painted parts unless you plan on repainting them. I usually cook mine on low for a day or two befor removing them. I forgot one once and cooked it for a week,, no problems. I like to brush and rinse all my parts in the sink, not the kitchen sink, Mrs has a fit..Watch out when you take 'em out of the anti freeze, they are too HOT to handle. Definately rinse, dry and treat the cleaned engine with a good oil. I use a synthetic 30W. I too learned the hard way NOT to use WD-40 as a storage oil. Where did all that rust come from?? AND I will NEVER use dishwasher detergent again after just destroying the finish on a polished FOX and a K&B,,, turns 'em black and it does not come off!!
So between this and all the other guys, you should have a good idea on "what and how".
"Straighten up and fly right"
Rog
Castor glow fuel is used for my rinsing. Normally, I'll run the engine on a test stand immediately after the rinse to make sure it gets 100% dry. If I can't run it immediately I keep it in the crock pot until ready.
I've posted this before but I left an old Fox 40BB on the work bench for weeks after removing from the crockpot bath. No rinsing, no wiping, no nothing to remove the antifreeze. It was an experiment to see what would happen. I took the motor apart and checked all. Nothing happened and the motor stayed perfect. I also kept this motor submerged in cold antifreeze several months...again no problems. Cold antifreeze also has zero cleaning properties without the heat on.
Bill P.
Go to Home Depot or Lowes and go to the air tools section and get a bottle of air tool oil. Thats all it is.
Do a Google search on "Marvel Air Tool Oil" and you will find hundreds of hits, including several on the first page that will tell you where to find it.
Bill Lee
I use a nylon bristle toothbrush to scrub the engine; back into the AF it doesn't clean up the first time. Wooden toothpicks are also very useful.
I like to completely disassemble the engine. If it won't come apart cold, it usually will after the first soaking.
I'm usually cleaning engines for restoration, so I NEVER use any metallic brushes or abrasives or chemicals which may etch the surface!
I have found that once the parts are clean, a quick dunk in clean hot water (I have a second crock pot just for this)will leave a patina very close to as cast and the parts dry very fast as a side benefit.
I dip the parts in Marvel Air Tool Oil and let them drain. Just prior to reassembly, I coat parts with Break-Free CLP or TriFlo (both available in sporting goods gun supplies or at gun shows) which contain Teflon and will definitely not allow rust to form. Why two different dips? The air tool oil will actually tie up and water or moisture left from the rinse or condensation; that's why air wrenches don't rust up over night! The Breakfree provides long term protection.
If you do a couple of really ratty engines, you'll find some nasty, gelatenous goop in the bottom of the pot. At that point, I discard the antifreeze and start fresh. Here in Beaver Falls, we can take used AF to a county recycling center and dispose of it for $0.50 per gallon. I take the rinse water too.
A little tea infuser (Walmart or Kmart kitchen doo dads) is great for soaking screws, nuts, washers, NVAs and other small parts. You don't have to chase around in the bottom of the pot to retreive them.
Whilst the results do clean the engine up it leaves the case looking blotchy (Fox, Enya, Merco, OS).
These cases were not meant to be shiny, nor were the meant to be blasted.
Where did I go wrong?
How are we supposed to describe the three standard aluminium finishes used on engines.
Shiny (McCoy, K&B, some Vecos), plain (Fox, OS, Merco) and matt (Some K&B Stallions, some Vecos)
Tony
The blotching is a chemical reaction, most detergents have some amount of alkilinity; falls into my never "use chemicals which can etch" category.
Floyd
If I am not mistaken, you are NOT supposed to use dishwashing soap on aluminum. It reacts with it and discolors it, not to be recovered.
OTOH, the anti-freeze you can buy today is formulated for use in aluminum engines.
Bill Lee
Ron above doesn't seem to have this problem though - might be down to different ingredients in different brands.
None of the engines cost more than $15 though so as long as they run I'm happy.
Any tools/polishes I can use to improve the look though - even if this results in an even semi-shiny look?
Tony
Bigiron
PS, Added by edit
BE VERY CAUTIOUS AND DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE ACCIDENTALLY GET THE POT AND USE IT FOR COOKING FOOD IN AFTER YOU HAVE USED IT FOR HEATING ANTIFREEZE.
B
I am a little surprised that so few seem to know that storing engines in a container of kerosene is the very best way I know of to keep them lubed, preserved and ready to go at a moment's notice.
This is, or at least used to be, quite common practice with the RC Pylon racers. I also know more than a few CL Combat fliers who store their engines in kerosene.
Dan
The fumes are noxious if not toxic.
Also, Dont just use a pot and hot plate to heat the antifreeze.
Saw a nasty explosion once by a guy doing that. THe antifreeze was boiling away--he removed it from the hotplate and it quit boiling but--it was still much higher than the BP of water. Then he decided to cool off the pot by running some tap water into the pot...
BAD NEWS. The steam explosion blew all of the AF out of the pot and all over this guy. It was not a good thing. He is very lucky he has eyesight today.
Makes sense in retrospect but was an innocent enough mistake.
FWIW
Curt
There is nothing 'magic' about MM Air Tool oil. I have been using the stuff that they sell at Ace Hardware, for a long time with no problems.
Why pay more for shipping than for the 8oz of oil, when you can find what you need at the local strip mall?
Air tool oil, is Air tool oil. The mail thing is to use some, no matter who's name is on the can!
You can buy AT oil from almost any supplier who sells air tools.
BIGS
My latest Horbor Freight Tools Sale flyer came with today's mail and lists a 15oz bottle of Sta-Lube AT oil for $1.99.
What a deal!
BIGS