Bi-Plane Design Questions?

I have this bug for some reason to build a Bi-Plane. Not just any old BP either. I want this thing to fly hard aggro corners. So I will power it with a PA 65 on Pipe. Of course the drag is up so I will run a more Break/Boost type of run and it will be plento-power!

Things I need help with.

Pros weigh in here. I dont care who you are if you have ideas I want to know them!!!! All thoughts welcome on anything Bi-Plane.

How do I get the right area for the tail section? 25% of the wings combined??

Flaps on only the lower wing?? Why?

TW boxes in Both Wings?

The Chip Hyde TOC Ultimate is the one I am going for. It has the top wing slightly out in front of the lower wing. So how do you calc the CG, and moment numbers? Take the average placement? I still want the 25% or more aft CG we normaly run on the modern stunter? I guess I am wanting the same feel.

How am I going to fit a pipe down the fuse? I think it will look really Rad with the pipe exiting the side of the plane!

I know there are not many Bi-Plane guys out there but general Aerodynamics should apply.

So lets here your ideas and thoughts on what I should do.

Klaus Maikis designed an aerobatic biplane called the Duetto about 10 years ago. It was a good flyer. Perhaps He will weigh in here.

Hi Doug-

We need to talk about this one, also, you need to fly the Stearman a couple of times just to see how these things can fly. I can give you all my experience regarding tail size and why flaps on bottom wing only. I have tried on both, didn't like it. CG position doesn't seem to be very touchy on the Stearmans. I will have it at the fish fry.

Build this one! A Steve Buso design, called the Psyclone? or some such...... Johnny Duncan (r) and Carlos Serra are discussing the design here....it flys real well!

John has cores available, too. [email protected]

forgot the pic.

See Ya

>Hi Doug-
>
>We need to talk about this one, also, you need to fly the
>Stearman a couple of times
>Don

Don

What stearman do you have? I have been thinking of building my Sterling kit (after I replace the wood). What size is yours?

Hutch's PT-17 is way bigger than the Sterling kit, and way more capable! Almost like a comparison between a Ford sedan and an Alfa Romeo Spyder. It was published in AM in the late 90s, I think.

Of course, IMHO, it should have been powered with a Fox .59 . . .

>Hutch's PT-17 is way bigger than the Sterling kit, and way
>more capable! Almost like a comparison between a Ford sedan
>and an Alfa Romeo Spyder. It was published in AM in the late
>90s, I think.
>
>Of course, IMHO, it should have been powered with a Fox .59
>. . .

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Ralph:

I applaud your choice of cars but,in this case(the Sterling kit), the Ford would be a very high mileage, poorly maintained, Model A. Hutch's airplane is a revelation to watch fly, it's very capable. Also,it's very close to exact scale. If memory serves,it had an O.S. FP 35 or 40 when I saw it.

>>Hi Doug-
>>
>>We need to talk about this one, also, you need to fly the
>>Stearman a couple of times
>>Don
>
>
>Don
>
>What stearman do you have? I have been thinking of building
>my Sterling kit (after I replace the wood). What size is
>yours?
>
>Carl

Flying Models October 2000. Plan CD122, 44" wingspan, .40 engine. http://www.carstens-publications.com/plans_directory.php?table_orderby=category&returnpage=11

If you already have the link to FM plans service, it's page 11, near the top of the page. Cool airplane. It's my impression (could be wrong), that it's based on, and developed from, the Palmer-Yates Orwick powered Stearman, winner of '48 (?) NATS. Steve

Steve- Just to set the record straight. My first Stearman came about from a plan for a 1/2" scale rubber powered Stearman in the Sept. '49 MAN. I double sized it and did up the structure for a C/L type model. The first one had an Ohlsson 23 front rotor and flew pretty good. Susequant ones were from a good set of drawings of the real airplane whence I quickly discovered that the enlarged elavators from the rubber powered ship worked much better. All this many years ago. When getting back into C/L in '87, I did another small one with a Veco 19 and flaps before going to the OS 40 powered ones and yes, they fly pretty good. Only the inspiration for a Sammy Mason paint scheme came from the Palmer/Yates model. Over a span of 54 years there have been 9 Stearmans, 3 in Mason paint.

So!! You're going to be the "talented cat" I mentioned about building a Pitts or another biplane in the prior post concerning large TOC ships. I am still working on my Extra 330. I am going with the "tried and true Saito 72 as opposed to the Saito 91 in this case because of my concern for the line limit. Windy just sent me a tape of him in a past Top Five Flyoff at the Nat's with his Typhoon with a Saito 91. His feeling is that, it was the smoothest motor of any type he has ever run, but it appears to need some sort of speed control because, if it gets away from you, you are deep !@#$! If you have email, I will send you a short clip of Chip Hyde winning the last TOC with his Ultimate. You may also want to look into his F3A Pattern 2 meter version called,"Double Vision." That may help you get a fix on things.

please send me the clip.

[email protected]

Doug

Peter Miller in the UK has done a great deal of work on stunt biplanes.

If I remember correctly, his most recent is Cavalier 4 which appeared in Flying Models November 1999.

There has been a long line of development starting with his Duchess models and four iterations of Cavalier.

Between Claus' Duetto and Great Lakes bipes mentioned above and Peter's Cavaliers, I think you will find all the guidance you need to create your own competitive bipe.

While beeing aware that a biplane will probably never fly as well as a monoplane,in 87 I built a biplane for a Super Tiger 46 which was intended for serious competition. Indeed I had some nice contest successes. The plan was published in the British Aeromodeller magazine, together with some ideas on the design. Later a friend of mine built an enlarged version for the ST 60 which in my eyes flew even better.
If anybody is interested in the ( slightly modified )text plus some sketches, please give me your postal address.
Regards, claus

Claus, I can't find your email address. Is it listed here? Thanks, Bill

Doug, I am trying to compress the video for you. I promise you , it is worth it!