Model Clubs and Aggressive Hollyweird marketing?

I received in the mail today an invite from Twentieth Century Fox to come out on Dec.22 and see their new movie, "Flight of the Phoenix". I'm betting money that the rest of the world may have also received this package. It was a mailing tube which enclosed near to full size poster of the movies marquee print ad, plus half a dozen post cards with the same image. "Well thank you very much", thinks me. Note: It was addressed to the Lambton Control Line Flyers, of which I'm the current President. As we (the LCLF)are model airplane group, they seem to be targetting the people most interested in aviation, imagine that! I'm sure many club names and addresses are out there. Anyone else get this same package? (note: no free passes enclosed, ) The only other connection I can think of that is even remotely connected between myself and the "Flight of the Phoenix" is my posts here on SSW some months back related to my "Phoenix Twister" rebuild. Could it have been that, via a Google search on "Phoenix" that brought this stuff to my door step?.....Naaaaaaah , no way. Anybody else get a tube in the mail?

Tony "thinkin' Hollyweird" Bagley

In the original movie the guy who engineered the salvaged airplane turned out the be a model airplane designer.

When it was too late back out, he admitted that his biggest previous project had a 2-meter wingspan. He added that models "ver more difficult because there is no one there to make trim adjustments."

The movie always had a cult following among modelers, especially free flight.

Ya got love the scene where Jimmy Stewart,..clears the cylinders with the cartridge starter,..nail biter or what. One of my fav's.

I remember a great review of the film in Aeromodeller and an article on how it was made - No computer animation in those days. If I remember right they made an actual aeroplane and flew it. Sadly killed the pilot late in the filming. I can't remember who the pilot was

>I remember a great review of the film in Aeromodeller and an
>article on how it was made - No computer animation in those
>days. If I remember right they made an actual aeroplane and
>flew it. Sadly killed the pilot late in the filming. I can't
>remember who the pilot was

The Pilot was the great Paul Mantz. He flew in many movies, won the Bendix Race 3 times, and helped out many pilots in the golden age of flying. After the crash he was killed in, another plane had to be put together quikly to finish filming. Do you know what was used to fill in for the crashed plane? Hint: Carrier guys will know it!

>>I remember a great review of the film in Aeromodeller and an
>>article on how it was made - No computer animation in those
>>days. If I remember right they made an actual aeroplane and
>>flew it. Sadly killed the pilot late in the filming. I can't
>>remember who the pilot was
>
> The Pilot was the great Paul Mantz. He flew in many movies,
>won the Bendix Race 3 times, and helped out many pilots in
>the golden age of flying. After the crash he was killed in,
>another plane had to be put together quikly to finish
>filming. Do you know what was used to fill in for the
>crashed plane? Hint: Carrier guys will know it!

That would be a AD Skyraider, with no canopy. The "plane" that was built from the wreckage was re-engined with ,I believe, an engine from a T-6 Texan, the engine from the Packet cargo plane vibrated too much. And I don't think the airplane was a C-119. There was a simular airplane around at the time, but I can't think of the designation right now, only that it was called a" Packet"
Dan McEntee

>I can't
>remember who the pilot was

His name was Paul Mantz age 62.
He was crushed by the engine and killed instantly.
The plane caught a "hard dune" on landing and broke in half.
A stuntman riding along survived.

Mr Mantz was not the scheduled pilot Frank Tallman was, he had injured his knee pushing his sons go kart in the driveway and had to scratch for Mantz. I do remember that his knee later became infected and was amputated.

More on Mantz
<http://www.airracinghistory.freeola.com/PILOTS/PAUL%20MANTZ.htm>
regards,
Rick "catdaddy" Blankenship

I believe you are thinking of Frank Tullman.

Nope....TALLMAN is correct. He was the other 1/2 of Tallmantz Aviation based at Orange County (CA) airport.

Yes, TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAllman. Ok I had 26 letters to hit on the key board...I got most of them in the right order.

Good link, very intresting, thanks..........Greg

>>I can't
>>remember who the pilot was
>
>His name was Paul Mantz age 62.
>He was crushed by the engine and killed instantly.
>The plane caught a "hard dune" on landing and broke in half.
>A stuntman riding along survived.
>
>Mr Mantz was not the scheduled pilot Frank Tallman was, he
>had injured his knee pushing his sons go kart in the
>driveway and had to scratch for Mantz. I do remember that
>his knee later became infected and was amputated.
>
I believe that the FAA also determined that the fact that Mantz was inebriated at the time of the crash had a bit to do with the accident.

Anyone have ideas on what they vismodded to replace the crashed Phoenix for the last bit of filming?

I remember being soooo pissed off at Jimmy Stewart in that movie. I said to myself during the film, that the engineer modeler is going to show them "who's who." Of course, he did. The engineer modeler in the movie played a German. I remember wondering if he worked for Graupner in Germany!!

One of my favorite aviation movies - The "engineer" proudly showed off a model catalogue, pretty sure it was Graupner, or maybe Robbe - anyway, the 2m towline glider was a real model available as a kit from the (real)catalogue.

In addition to designing the airplane, the German engineer scheduled the water rationing for the party. His calculations took into account killing the wounded immediately so as not to waste water. A real competator.

Just saw the trailer for the new movie on Fox Movie Channel. Good trailer, I hope the movie holds up to the 1st one. Lots of effects from what I just saw.

Nov. 24th is what they said for the release.

Yeah, but the German engineer (capably played by Hardy Kruger) showed his fallability late in the "cylinder clearing" scene. He did not want Jimmy Stewart to waste a round clearing the cylinders; he wanted to save each one for starting the engine. Jimmy disagreed, cleared the cylinders with a round, and got the engine running with the next round.

The subtext was that you needed a combination of theoretical and practical experience to save the day.

>
>The subtext was that you needed a combination of theoretical
>and practical experience to save the day.
>
>Currell

You nailed it.

The modeler following of the movie was obvious. The following by pure aviation buffs was just as strong. Jimmy Stewart was, of course, famous as a decorated USAF Reserve pilot and officer. His earlier movie, "Strategic Air Command," had a huge following - memorable for the most movie footage of the B-36.

Paul Mantz was legendary in the annals of military aviation fans and Hollywood stunts. His belly landing of a B-17 in the opening of "Twelve O'Clock High" held the record for decades as the most expensive movie stunt ever made. He died when the tips of the skids caught "the" sand dune on takeoff. The script called for just barely clearing the sand dune - as in every other airplane movie - like the ubiquitous trees at the end of a runway. Sadly, in flying the real, cobbled together C-119 single boom, he just cut it a tad too close.

Those were the days when the "Battle of Britain" producers discovered real Heinkel 111's and Me-109's still in service with the Spanish Air Force (although with re-engined Merlins), and "Tora, Tora, Tora" rebuilt AT-6's and SNJ's into Zero's, Zeke's and Val's.

I have the feeling that the modern version of Phoenix will resort to digital techniques, rather than building the real thing.

>The modeler following of the movie was obvious. The
>following by pure aviation buffs was just as strong. Jimmy
>Stewart was, of course, famous as a decorated USAF Reserve
>pilot and officer. His earlier movie, "Strategic Air
>Command," had a huge following - memorable for the most
>movie footage of the B-36.

SAC was clearly the best most realistic air warfare movie ever. No Hollywood hype. Just flat out told it like it is.
>

Yes, it was, and still is a great movie!

I for one was stationed at Carswell AFB during the time that that movie was being filmed. I like it so much that even after seeing it many many times, if it comes around again, I will see it again. I worked on and flew in the "Magnesium Overcast" and think that was one of the prettiest planes in flight ever. Right along with the P-51 and Spitfire.
There WAS a wee mite of hype, but for the most part it was very factual.
I love it.

During my stay at McConnell, I served with a CMSGT boom operator who used to be a flight engineer on the B-36. He had some great "cold war" stories.

Some of them are well beyond the movie. They did air-to-combat exercises with Mustangs and F-80's, using movie cameras rather machine guns. No bullets, but a REAL chance of collision.

> There WAS a wee mite of hype, but for the most part it was
>very factual.
> I love it.
>
> Bigiron

>Those were the days when the "Battle of Britain" producers
>discovered real Heinkel 111's and Me-109's still in service
>with the Spanish Air Force (although with re-engined
>Merlins),

I thought the "Battle of Britain" was a pretty cheesy example of film making. I believe I saw the same model airplane blowing up 5 or 6 times, with crude attempts to use the film clip differntly. However, other modelers simply LOVED the movie,----- because the models looked like MODELS.

>I have the feeling that the modern version of Phoenix will
>resort to digital techniques, rather than building the real
>thing.

If that's true, I'll REALLY hate it.
Bad models are still better than animated cartoons.

A lot of the flying scenes for the Battle of Britan film were shot over my house. I live close to the Duxford aerodrome where the film was based. I was very sad when they blew up a genuine prewar hanger. There is still an ugly gap where the hanger used to be. It was great sitting in the garden watching dog fights overhead.

>>Those were the days when the "Battle of Britain" producers
>>discovered real Heinkel 111's and Me-109's still in service
>>with the Spanish Air Force (although with re-engined
>>Merlins),

> Small point, but they weren't "real" Me109's. They were I believe, called Hasa Ha 1112 (for the Me 109) and were equiped with Allisons. I'm not sure about the Heinkels. These airplanes were made under liscense after WW2. I have a good collection of Air Progress magazines from that time period, and are a good source of info on that kind of stuff.

>I thought the "Battle of Britain" was a pretty cheesy
>example of film making. I believe I saw the same model
>airplane blowing up 5 or 6 times, with crude attempts to use
>the film clip differntly. However, other modelers simply
>LOVED the movie,----- because the models looked like MODELS.
>
>
>
>>I have the feeling that the modern version of Phoenix will
>>resort to digital techniques, rather than building the real
>>thing.
>
>If that's true, I'll REALLY hate it.
>Bad models are still better than animated cartoons.

"Battle of Britain" was the big debut of an up and coming scale modeler, one Dave Platt. If I recall the magazines from that time, he was the Master Model maker for that movie.
Dan McEntee

In one shot in BoB a Super Tigre 74? can be seen spiralling away from an exploded Stuka - Mick Reeve's was in charge of the models I recall - may be wrong though?

Would the movie "Gathering of Eagles" get any votes, with Rock Hudson?

>Would the movie "Gathering of Eagles" get any votes, with
>Rock Hudson?
>
>Tony

YES - probably the most realistic Cold War aviation movie. I loved Strategic Air Command, too, but it was largely a recruiting movie. Both the Strategic Air Command and Gathering of Eagles were produced with examples of military aviation in existence at the time of the movie. The movies are noteworthy to aviation buffs because they are wonderful preservations of the aircraft of their day. In the same way, even the "War of the Worlds" is memorable because of the extensive footage of Northrop's Flying Wing bomber.

I think the difference to a modeler is the historical recreation, and/or the production accomplishment in re-creating actual aircraft that are no longer flown.

In Phoenix, even though it did not represent warbirds per se, they actually built the plane that Paul Mantz flew and died in. In Battle of Britain, they actually found ME-109's and HE-111's to fly. They also found Spits and even Hurricanes. I remember reading the greatest challenge in the movie was to recreate the impression that Hurricanes outnumbered Spits by 2 or 3 to 1. This was at a time when the actual Hurricanes that existed could be counted on one hand.

In addition, the Stuka's were 1/2 scale RC models.

In Tora, Tora, Tora, they actually rebuilt the aviation arm of the Japanese Navy, and flew simulated attacks with large numbers (relatively speaking) of real aircraft. The P-40's were vintage as well, and they used just about every B-17 that existed at the time. Although not a box office success, Tora, Tora, Tora was the "Titanic" movie of its day. If only the producers had included a boy-girl story to experience the history, it might have been a huge success. Its historical accuracy is unparalleled. The planes became airshow performers for decades, after many were sold to warbird collectors.

Oh yeah - unfortunately, "Twelve O'Clock High" is ignored today because it was shot in B&W.

Tom: I couldn't agree more. Looking at it today, the movie was overly reverential to SAC, and shamelessly kissed up to Gen LeMay's SAC at every level. LeMay was correct in his shakeup of SAC when he assumed command, though.

Paul, for a more balanced view (having the advantage of hindsight, admittedly), I strongly recommend a new book, just out...Air Power, by Stephen Budiansky. In fact, it is in the Macomb County library system right now.

That aside, "SAC" has some wonderful color photography, especially of the B-36s. The crash scene is well staged. And you get June Allyson, doing her usual simpering, sugary, weepy, deferential turn (almost identical role interpretation as in "The Gleen Miller Story"). Jimmy in that one, too.

Currell (anticipating "The Aviator" (Howard Hughes biopic, out Dec)

>Oh yeah - unfortunately, "Twelve O'Clock High" is ignored
>today because it was shot in B&W.

General Savage, played by (OK) Gregory Peck, is often used as an example of both GOOD and BAD management techniques in Management Training programs.

If "Strategic Air Command" was a recruiting film for SAC, it worked well. I joined SAC.

Another intersting note: the B-36 was the final, ultimate piston-engine bomber, a real masterpiece.

It was replaced by the beautiful, but heavily flawed, B-47. A big jet bomber that taught the industry what not to do. Lessons learned made the B-52 an all-time winner. Part of the message was that flying a B-47 was life-threatening, even without the enemy.

Gregory Peck

Wow, Tony, with all the replies on this thread, I can't believe I'm the first to put my hand up and say "Me, too!" I didn't recieve the package directly, but because I'm the webmaster for my club, I was at the exec meeting last evening, and the fellow who DID recieve it had it on the table, and basically said "Anyone wants it?", so I grabbed it! Cool poster. Looks like it could be a good movie...

I'm hoping for my own "Flight of the Phoenix" next spring, if I can FINALLY finish my Phoenix 2 (only 2 years in the building so far...)

Tony...question for you. Is that Dennis Quaid on the "Phoenix" poster?

Currell,
Yes that's Dennis Quad. Just a guess on my part but the model geek I believe will be Giovanni Ribisi, (the blond guy in the picture above). Ribisi did the techno-geek part in "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow". Should be interesting to see how he pulls it off after his slacker guest spot roll on "Friends". (That's just me reading some promo stuff from this site: http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1808411963&cf=pg&photoid=549035&intl=us ,...it's not like a knew already,..but I did know the Quad answer)

I can see it now,

The guy pulls out a Tower Hobbies catalog and points out his masterpiece, an ARF RC plane.

>Tony...question for you. Is that Dennis Quaid on the
>"Phoenix" poster?
>
>Currell

How about the woman in the poster? Apparently, it's "Miranda Otto." Anbody consider the fact that a woman never appeared in the original?

That's a woman? Heck, I thought is was an ugly guy!! Hmm. Now the movie is not worth watching. A gurl, yecchhh.

>>Tony...question for you. Is that Dennis Quaid on the
>>"Phoenix" poster?
>>
>>Currell
>
>How about the woman in the poster? Apparently, it's
>"Miranda Otto." Anbody consider the fact that a woman never
>appeared in the original?

Didn't they have a dream sequence where somebody halucinated seeing a belly dancer? (played by Berry Chase) A real stretch to get a woman into an all-male movie.

Paul is absolutely correct. That was how they got a female into the movie. (This is a trick trivia question that movie buffs like to ask).

Go google Flight of the Phoenix. You can see a nice three or four minute trailer of the flick.

The Perfect Ending: The engineer pulls out the model catalog, and claims to be the original Cox Rock On a String designer.

Tom: Miranda Otto is right. She is listed in the cast at the "Phoenix" website. Currell