MONOCOTE

Please tell me the secret to getting the monocote, etc or other shrink coverings to lay smooth and look good going around the "wing tips". I have tried to cover about four kits, the wing looks good but the tips look wrinkled and really take away from the finished plane.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Geoff:-(

>Please tell me the secret to getting the monocote, etc or
>other shrink coverings to lay smooth and look good going
>around the "wing tips". I have tried to cover about four
>kits, the wing looks good but the tips look wrinkled and
>really take away from the finished plane.
>Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Geoff:-(

While heating you must pull tight. Heat with heat gun. Aside from that it just takes practice.

Tack it securely at the end of the wing just before the tip. Cut slots in the Monokote radially out from the tip leaving about 1/2" uncut at the edge of the tip. Use a "hot glove" to pull the Monokote into place while heating with a heat gun. With practice, this works well on rounded tips of all shapes. I still haven't found a way to cover Flite Streak tips that works every time.
Steve
The older I get, the better I used to fly!

The above is a great way to go.....for Flit Streak tips, you can cut triangles to fit the tip ribs and applt them individually, when you have finished the joints where the cote overlaps is invisible....I will get pics of muy strealk tips done this way tonight and post tomorrow....

I very rarely use an iron on monocote....only to tack the centre to the sheeting....the rest I do with a heat gun and light leather glove.... yo get good results if you heat and stretch

You need a good hot air gun, a pair of forceps and a second set of hands (or sandbags). Your helper (or the sandbags) holds the wing in position while you heat and pull, heat and pull, heat and pull. Takes a lot of heat and some time, but you can get it to lay down with few if any wrinkles. Depends on the shape of the tip, too. Some are harder to cover than others.

I do it the best I can then put a patch over the wrinkle. It doesn't look perfect but it's smooth to the air.

It's actually fairly easy, although practice makes perfect. I cannot imagine a tip shape which cannot be covered with excess from main panel, meaning one piece of film from tip to tip or center section to tip. There are some I would not want to tackle, but none of these shapes show up on CL Stunt models.

1. Lots of heat.

2. Lots of tension on the film.

3. Patience.

4. Practice on something you don't care about.

Item 4. elaboration: That's what swap meets are for, noting you don't care if that $5.00 piece of junk was intended for RC, it's nearly free structure upon which to experiment. Using that God-awful partial role of flourescent green MonoKote from same source or his neighbor.

As the guys have said, heat and pull. But, there have been wing tips I have covered with separate piece of covering. In other words I covered the tip first. DOC

OK,
I think I get the message, "Heat, Pull, Practice" and yes, glove! Please post pics if any or "cd". Oh, by the way, is there something wrong with a "God-awful" patial roll of flourescent green monokote? LOL
Next project, maybe tips first?

Best regards,
Geoff Best....Torham

>OK,
> I think I get the message, "Heat, Pull, Practice" and
>yes, glove! Please post pics if any or "cd". Oh, by the way,
>is there something wrong with a "God-awful" patial roll of
>flourescent green monokote? LOL
> Next project, maybe tips first?
>
> Best regards,
> Geoff Best....Torham

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Geoff:

As almost everyone above has said, there's no need to cover the tips first. It's easily done with one piece after a little practice. The trick is,don't think "shrink film" think "stretch film".

Attach the root in several places then STrrrretttcccchhhhthe film over the tip. Watch the long wrinkles(root to tip) as you heat and pull,and tack it down at the spot where they're equal front and rear. Go back to the root and tack down the rest of the root. then ,alternately work LE and TE, while heating and stretching 'til you reach the tip. At the tip, work from the LE and TE to the center tack alternately ,each time starting at the center of the un-tacked portion.Basically if you stretch enough, you pull the wrinkled film right off the framework.

One further comment;I know,many prefer heat guns to irons for this,but I'd rather use an iron so I can be sure of the temperature. If you overheat film it can lose it's ability to stretch/shrink.

Stretch and pull works - except that it costs more money. I can't speak for the rest of these guys, but I don't go out of my way to cut a piece much bigger than the wing. Unless you've got money to burn, you'll find that there's not enough at the tip to really pull and stretch anyway. You also don't want to pull so hard that you end up warping your wing just to cover the tip.

Rounded, solid balsa tips are the worst. Either cover them separately, or cover from the tip first.

Another handy tool is a pair of needle nose pliers with silicon fuel tubing pulled over the tips. They really grab and hold the monocoat. It is very tough without a helper! The thing to learn is how hot you can get the monocoat without melting a hole in it or causing a tear by pulling to tight. I get small wrinkles out just by heating sometimes but have to be careful or it will melt a hole in it. A couple of my planes have patches on them where this has happened.

Tom:7

Have you figured up the total cost of your finishing material on a painted finish? Also Mono does not upset family when I can't get out side to paint.DOC

Hi Geoff, I too am new to this plastic covering stuff but have found two reference sources to very helpful: "There Are NO Secrets" a Higley publication which you might find in the rear of Flying Models; and the Top Flite video on MonoCoating. You will be amazed at the new stuff you find in each of these references every time you go back and read or watch again!

>Please tell me the secret to getting the monocote, etc or
>other shrink coverings to lay smooth and look good going
>around the "wing tips". I have tried to cover about four
>kits, the wing looks good but the tips look wrinkled and
>really take away from the finished plane.

You have a lot of good information here. I was pretty famous/infamous for monokote for a while (may have had the highest-scoring Monokote plane in Nats Appearance judging -16- a while back. It's probably me or Allen Brickhaus, at least in the recent past). On tip I didn't see, and it may be the most important one, is to use *fresh* Monokote. Buy it somewhere it turns over quickly. Brand new rolls are much more flexible than older rolls. That makes it a lot easier to heat/pull around compound curves.

Even brand new Monokote is much more "crinkly" than the other films (and I think that's one reason it's still a very superior product), but new rolls will be noticably softer to the touch. If you hold a peice up and thump it, it will go "thud". After about a year, it's like hitting a peice of typing paper.

The same thing happens with it on the airplane - it gets very brittle over the years as the result of UV light. That makes the underlying structure stiffer over time, but much more prone to getting holes knocked in it.

There's a lot more skill involved in doing a good Monokote job than is generally acknowledged. You can do a decent job pretty quickly, but a really good job takes a lot of skill and a lot of time. I do pretty well, but my stuff looks like dog meat compared to some really good R/C Monokote experts. And it's definitely a one-shot deal. With paint you can keep screwing it up and fixing it until you get it right. With Monokote, one mistake, and you either live with it or strip it entirely and start over.

Goeff,

Most of the post that you have been reading have been for the most part good information but all have left out something.

Back in the day when Monokote was king and I was flying R/C. There was a product out there and I believe that it was produced by Coverite.
The product I am talking about is called Balsarite. Balsarite was easy to use and made the application of Monokote arround compound corners a BREEZZZZZZZZZZZZZE!

The Balsarite performed two functions,
#1 it would close the grain, somewhat of the balsa surface that was about to be covered. This will help the glue backing on the cover material stick better.
#2 Then it would act as a contact cement when a iron or blower was used on it when applying the film.

There were some problems with some of the lower cost film but I can't recall which type. The balsarite is painted on with a brush and allowed to dry and would reactivate at about 200 - 250 deg. F.

Balsarite is a fuel proofer and most of the time if not used for putting down film, it was used to paint engine compartments by most of the old R/C flyers.

If you are serious about using a film I would look into this product, if it is still available.

I do not know how you are finishing your airplanes but you need to finish sand all surfaces very smooth, to the touch. Not all the heat in the world will stick Monokote if you are applying it to a unfinished, dusty or rough surface.

I hope this helps

FYI: This product was made with MEK and Toluolyne, use in a well vented area and Oh yea, NO SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Thanks Bill.

Bill also sez, that it is still available.

MikeC.

Tack down the leading and trailing edges just before the tip. Do not tack down the ribs until the tip is done. Find the wrinkles and divide them. Then divide the divided wrinkles. Using a iron set on high, hover over the area you want to shrink. do not press the iron into the wrinkle or it will set. Sometimes it helps to shrink the material down stream of the wrinkle to help pull the wrinkle out. Plan on spending some time with it and don't rush.

Geoff:

As almost everyone above has said, there's no need to cover the tips first. It's easily done with one piece after a little practice. The trick is,don't think "shrink film" think "stretch film".

Ron B.

big, annoying snip...

Aha! I live for days like this, finding a point of disagreement with Ron.

While I do understand what was said, if one really starts looking at the situation, in some cases the MonoKote must be stretched. But just as in working with metal--more to the point sheet metal, think collision repair--there are many times when the material must indeed be shrunk. This is particularly true around wing tips.

Also as in working with sheet metal, MonoKote can be work hardened. Get in there, get it hot, get it to shape, get it nailed down, let it cool!

Somebody mentioned rounded block tips, as seen on the Impact for example, as being the most difficult shape to cover. Yep. Looks easy. It's not. But even a modicum of practice will result in the ability to do each panel with one piece of film. Looks so much neater without any overlaps.

There was also mention of Flite Streak tips being a challenge. Uh, no they are not. One of the easiest shapes to cover, although maybe not the first time or two through...

The real Higley book for users of film is, I believe, called "Tom's Techniques." This book, Top Flite's video, some common sense, use of MonoKote as it really is the best film, a little practice and you're on your way.

Then when you think you're really good, drop in at an RC Pattern contest. Seriously...

>Geoff:
>
>As almost everyone above has said, there's no need to cover
>the tips first. It's easily done with one piece after a
>little practice. The trick is,don't think "shrink film"
>think "stretch film".
>
>Ron B.
>
>big, annoying snip...
>
>Aha! I live for days like this, finding a point of
>disagreement with Ron.
>
>While I do understand what was said, if one really starts
>looking at the situation, in some cases the MonoKote must be
>stretched. But just as in working with metal--more to the
>point sheet metal, think collision repair--there are many
>times when the material must indeed be shrunk. This is
>particularly true around wing tips.
>
>Also as in working with sheet metal, MonoKote can be work
>hardened. Get in there, get it hot, get it to shape, get it
>nailed down, let it cool!
>
>Somebody mentioned rounded block tips, as seen on the Impact
>for example, as being the most difficult shape to cover.
>Yep. Looks easy. It's not. But even a modicum of practice
>will result in the ability to do each panel with one piece
>of film. Looks so much neater without any overlaps.
>
>There was also mention of Flite Streak tips being a
>challenge. Uh, no they are not. One of the easiest shapes to
>cover, although maybe not the first time or two through...
>
>The real Higley book for users of film is, I believe, called
>"Tom's Techniques." This book, Top Flite's video, some
>common sense, use of MonoKote as it really is the best film,
>a little practice and you're on your way.
>
>Then when you think you're really good, drop in at an RC
>Pattern contest. Seriously...
>
>Dan
>

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Dan!Dan!Dan!,Semantics!Semantics!Semantics! Of course you say true, not speak with forked tongue. All of these films depend on "memory" to achieve shrinkage(believe me,at my age I know about shrinkage,and my memory is dimming!).The more stretch applied in the initial tacking ,the more shrink is available for the tough areas at the tips.Also,when I say stretch in that initial phase,I'm talking heating and stretching the entire length toward the tip.Very little heat is needed to get a couple of inches of length if you stretch the whole thing.Another no-no is to tack to the ribs,the film has to be allowed to slide over the ribs to get maximum stretch/shrink.

As you say,films will work harden.Over heating and under stretching will accellerate this.Every time you shrink film at a given temp,that becomes the threshold temp for further shrinking.

Are you still my friend?

>
>Dan!Dan!Dan!,Semantics!Semantics!Semantics! Of course you
>say true, not speak with forked tongue. All of these films
>depend on "memory" to achieve shrinkage(believe me,at my age
>I know about shrinkage,and my memory is dimming!).The more
>stretch applied in the initial tacking ,the more shrink is
>available for the tough areas at the tips.Also,when I say
>stretch in that initial phase,I'm talking heating and
>stretching the entire length toward the tip.Very little heat
>is needed to get a couple of inches of length if you stretch
>the whole thing.Another no-no is to tack to the ribs,the
>film has to be allowed to slide over the ribs to get maximum
>stretch/shrink.
>
>As you say,films will work harden.Over heating and under
>stretching will accellerate this.Every time you shrink film
>at a given temp,that becomes the threshold temp for further
>shrinking.
>
>Are you still my friend?
>
>Ron B.

Ron,

Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, and of course.

Some of you folk really need to again, and more carefully this time, read what Ron just posted. I do in fact stretch full panels of film from center to tip. But evidently I do this out of some intuition, as I do not recall ever writing it down, although I have many times demonstrated this in person. And I do not believe I have ever seen this "stretch" thing written, although I believe Larry Ranger took an oblique hit at it once, mentioning that the best, easiest to maintain MonoKote finishes begin with film stretched tautly over the surface prior to nailing it down and shrinking.

Sooner or later we'll got all this stuff right the first time through.

I don't use M-Cote except for R/C gliders. I have an older stunt model covered in silkspan and butyrate. I used some pre-cut vinyl numbers on the wing. Now I want to remove them, but the vinyl is really stuck!

Question: is there a procedure to loosen up the vinyl "stickum" to get them off?

>I don't use M-Cote except for R/C gliders. I have an older
>stunt model covered in silkspan and butyrate. I used some
>pre-cut vinyl numbers on the wing. Now I want to remove
>them, but the vinyl is really stuck!
>
>Question: is there a procedure to loosen up the vinyl
>"stickum" to get them off?
>
>Floyd

Floyd,

When first putting vinyl numbers on your model, you wished they would stay stuck in place.

Now you wish they would come off.

Only one of your wishes has been and/or will be granted is my guess.

Well, try some light heat. No, not from a kitchen match!! Where do you live, anyway! Out in the woods of Oregon?

Hair dryer, heat gun, MonoKote heat gun, I'm betting one will work and that it won't take all the much heat.

Mr. Dan. When I long ago applied these numbers to the wing, I used "AMA". Now, with my disenchantment of AMA policy and with those in power, I want to remove "AMA" from my planes. Is this unreasonable? These days, I am embarassed to show any connection with the Academy on my models. That should be reason enough to remove the numbers. I now prefer to use "USA 796".

Floyd AMA #796

Have you tried "Goof Off" or WD-40?