FW 190 on pipe

I've several people ask about my FW 190, so I've decided just to post
a couple of pics and info.

This is a re-work of David McClellan FW 190 from the 80's.
I had a Saturn wing (Hunts) that was salvaged from a wrecked
plane and really liked the FW 190. I just built the fuse around it,
stretched it a bit and run an OPS 40 in it.
Weighs 57 oz which surprising as the wing is double finished.
Flew it in one contest but still needs to be trimmed.

Hi Robert,
I really liked the looks of it in the air at Marietta.
Bill <><

Nice looking Robert.

It's just too bad you ran out of paint after the bottom and had to make do with some old colors on the top..

Nice looking ship, Robert. (I hear you won Tampa expert outright?) Hehee

Good job.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Never allow school to interfere with your education." -Mark Twain

Robert,
Is the fuse per plan or was the diameter increased? How bout the stab?

Robert....nifty piece!
How close to "centerline" is it, and what did you change the "numbers" to?

See Ya

How close to centerline is it - well, not much. It's as it was on the plans, with the wing coming out if it was a straight wing without dihedral.

The fuse is stock diameter, just the tail moment is now 16.5".
As far as the stab span, it is longer than the plans. If I remember,
it's around 24".

Robert,

Very nice!

Is that a scale paint scheme?

Paint is not scale - just easy. No masking on top!

Congratulations for a very nice bird. If you had chosen a scale-like theme you could, as other PAMPA stunt flyers have done, fly the FW-190 in Sport Scale. Keith Trostle and Bob Whitely have done so as well as Jack Sheeks and others. It makes a project more interesting when it can be flown in more than one event. I have those plans and have often looked at it as a possible project but other stunt needs have stepped in line in front of the "Butcher Bird". Nice job Robert.

No end to the fantastic creativity of stunt flyers. Really cool ship.

"I don't know about this tuned pipe business. I practiced on that thing until my lips turned blue, and I still can't play a stinkin note."
"Homer J. Simpson"

Scale or not it looks great!

Thanks for posting the pictures.

Nice to see some of our stuff being recycled! You'r doing your bit for the ozone layer and greenhouse gases!

I asked Robert to publish the FW 190 in FM, but he was not interested.

Please convince him to change his mind!

We may have to send someone over to "convince" him..

It's a great looking model.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." -H.L. Mencken

LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-04 AT 03:18 PM (CDT)
 

Robert, I think Godzilla is right (if you can find the time) I always am interested in other quality work so I may improve. One example would be the engine mount system (I'm not a fan of firewall Mounted Engines).

It's a supurb (SP) plane Robert.

As this plane is pretty much off the plans in Flying Models by David McClellan,with a Saturn wing and a longer stab, to me it seems like it's already been done. The engine mounting is right off the plans, standard
hardwood beam mounting. My method of building the fuse is a minor difference so I could jig it, but the formers are all directly off the plans.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-04 AT 07:15 PM (CDT)
 
Robert,

This seems a very nice airplane of the semi-semi-scale variety of the Paul Walker school of thought, and who can complain about that school. In any case, it involves basing the design on a low wing airplane but building it as a mid-wing with a pipe tunnel where the wing should be. It frequently also involves shortening the gear and enlarging the horizontal tail surfaces, all of which Paul did with his Mustang. Still, they have a fairly realistic side view in flight.

I probably shouldn't be writing this as it will be taken as being unnecessarily critical of a good effort. But, Dave's FW-190 happens to be one of my favorite airplanes. I competed against it on several occasions and admired its performance and appearance. I consider it an unusually fine effort to combine semi-scale appearance with competitive performance. Twenty years later, this is still a great airplane which I would build with few changes, none of them aerodynamic or affecting appearance. With the subsequent availability of modern custom stunt engines, I would mostly just change the engine installation from metal radial mount to wood. Still, this was an unusually well thought out airplane with reasonable construction and nice moments and areas to be competitive. Dave's tail moment, measured from wing root hinge to stab hinge is 17 1/2" and there is an extra inch of tail moment in the 2" wing trailing edge forward sweep for an actual tail moment of 18 1/2". The airplane, as Dave designed it, is elegant and nicely realistic considering that it was a competitive airplane.

Dave's airplane lacked a muffler, but Richard Oliver sells a muffler insert which fits into a standard rear exhaust manifold. It is fun to think about how the airplane might be upgraded structurally with a modern engine and posibly laser cut parts. Unfortunately, there is just no getting around the need for a molded fuselage.

Actually, Dave's airplane was in the May 1980 issue of MAN.

Al, Thanks for putting the pictures (drawings) up here for me.

Man, that's cool.

I like the FW 190.

Which one?

Al,
My favorites are the Dora or TA 152 variant.
Bill <><

>Which one?
>
>Al

I like the A series and the G-series.

No one has ever done a semi scale Dora that I know of. It might lend itself to "standard" stunt numbers quite well.

Hi Brad,
David's is/was the long nose D-9 "Dora".
Keith's is the TA-152 high altitude version.
Bill <><

>Hi Brad,
>David's is/was the long nose D-9 "Dora".

Huh...I see the D series designation now. To me it looks more like an A series than a D series.

Hey, I build "lawn darts", what do I know...

I definitely would not call your designs lawn darts.
Bill <><

Claus Maikis also built a FW190, it was published in Aeromodeller 20 or so years ago.
Plan number is CL/1291

Brad,

There will be an A-8 out there next year. Kyle cut it today. Not mine.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-04 AT 12:02 PM (CDT)
 
>>Which one?
>>
>>Al
>
>I like the A series and the G-series.
>
>No one has ever done a semi scale Dora that I know of. It
>might lend itself to "standard" stunt numbers quite well.

Hi Brad,

There have been an number of Focke Wulf semi-scale models published over the years.

Perhaps the best looking is David McClellans FW-190D in Model Airplane News, May 1980. This is clearly inspired by the Rabe school on how a semi scale stunt ship should look. The several aiplanes I have seen from these plans all fly very well. (There was one that I saw built to 90% of the full size plans with an OS 25 VF. It also flew well.)

Clais <Maikis had a FW 190, sort of a D model in Aeromodeller, Aug 76.

Jack Sheeks 190 was in Flying Models, Jan 68. Jack's article talked about the A model, but the nose on the model was lengthened and the fuselage was slimmed down. It still sort of gives the appearance of the radial engined 190.

Then there was the Focke Wulf TA 152 published in Model Airplane News in Dec 68. This design placed 5th at the 66 and 68 Nats and then took the Walker Cup in 70. I believe this model is also the first to use a muffler to win the Walker Cup. It is a far cry from the super semi scale stunt ships that Al Rabe builds but still gives the "appearance" of the long nosed Focke Wulf 190D's and the Ta 152's.

I forgot all about this FW190. Now build one with retract gear and put it up against Mark Freeman's Spitfire with retracts. Would make a hell of a demo flying them together!!!!

Yeah,

Mark Freeman's Spitfire is another of my favorites, also a Skyraider by Don Typhond (I think).

LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-04 AT 12:18 PM (CDT)
 
Hi Al,
I still have that magazine around here, somewhere (Skyraider).
Complete with Gen. Nuygen Ky in the cockpit, and a ST 35 in the nose. Wasn't/isn't Don the guy from Hobbypoxy?
Bill <><

>As this plane is pretty much off the plans in Flying Models
>by David McClellan,with a Saturn wing and a longer stab, to
>me it seems like it's already been done. The engine
>mounting is right off the plans, standard
>hardwood beam mounting. My method of building the fuse is a
>minor difference so I could jig it, but the formers are all
>directly off the plans.

Like I told you, it has ALL been done. Never stopped anyone from writing a good article. People want to read about stunters.

I agree. There are many up and coming flyers especially who have a wing from a unexpected impact, and other flyers who are just curious as to how others do things!
To show how it was done will be a help to many. And the plane IS a competitive flyer. I saw it at Marietta when Robert didn't have a lot of flights on it, and it was flying pretty good!
As to it "having ben done before, look at how many Noblers were published in the '60's with just cosmetic changes. A lot of authors even said they were basically Noblers (see Chizler article). So just because it is a Saturn and McClellan FW doesn't mean IT has been done.
Bill <><

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-04 AT 01:02 PM (CDT)
 
I disagree. It is one thing to copy moments and areas when authoring an article, but that shouldn't include using clearly identifiable, very characteristic, pieces of other people's designs even if their work is attributed. If people want to read about semi-scale stunt Tom would be happy to reprint Dave's article and I'm sure Dave would have no objections.

In my opinion, Flying Models could reprint some of the really classical "good stuff" from the past to brighten and lighten the current trend to emphasis the care and feeding of ARF's in their myriad forms.

I'm sorry, but the word Frankenstein keeps coming to mind when I see clearly identifiable and characteristic but dissimilar pieces juxtaposed. Not horrible, but inappropriate.

Geez Al, didn't Sterling do Mustangs before you?

See Ya

Peabody,

Actually, I think my first PUBLISHED Mustang may have preceded the Sterling series. In any case I don't claim any stewardship of semi-scale Mustangs but would prefer that my drawings not be mixed and matched with other dissimilar concepts, particularly if my name is used.

Hi Al,
I do see your point.
As you are aware, though, there were several planes published that used the Nobler wing with no more than a wing tip, canopy, and LG change. Dick Mathis stated as much in the chizler article.
However, I can see a benefit to an article showing a Beginner, Intermediate, or even Advanced, flyer a way of recycling parts to get a nice flying stunt ship.
I have now used a wing in three different stunt ships.
From a Scale-Stunt view point it may seem blasphemous, as I can understand, but to many fliers out there the "Semi" Scale look is all they want.

As to a "Classic Series": Bob Hunt was doing just that before he left Flying Models. IIRC, the series was up to about 10 planes.
Some had been published previously, others had never been published.
I wish that series would have continued, or could be reinstated.
Bill <><

>Hi Al,
>I do see your point.
>As you are aware, though, there were several planes
>published that used the Nobler wing with no more than a wing
>tip, canopy, and LG change. Dick Mathis stated as much in
>the chizler article.

I cannot agree more with Bill and disagree more with Al. I stated *exactly* the same Nobler/Chizler parallel when we spoke about the FW 190. Robert went Al's way, I disagreed.

Don't let Al get to you. He thinks we are all flying hopped up Noblers.

Stunt articles are entertainment. People want to read you STORY. the design is just an excuse to gossip.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-04 AT 04:17 PM (CDT)
 
I wasn't referring to stunt ship wings which basically all look much the same. I was commenting on mixing and matching radically different, individually recognizable, concepts.

What's wrong with a little dihedral, long gears which takeoff and land beautifully, mufflers instead of pipes, and horizontal tails which don't fall into the category of "tandem wings"?

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-04 AT 04:23 PM (CDT)
 
No argument on your theory and opinion, Al. What you, and Ron, do is really spectacular.
Bill <><

This from someone who does not compete anymore. He even stated to me he has nothing to prove. DOC

I have no personal problem with Al. I am sure he understands that.
His (and Ron Burn's) work in Scale Stunt are unparalled as far as I am concerned. Al's Nationals and WC record stand for themselves.
I spoke to Al at length during the WC on a couple different occasions and couldn't have enjoyed the conversations more. Plus I learned a lot.

The unfortunate part is that there are too few people in C/L stunt who can sit down and design, build, and trim a world beater from scratch. It is also difficult to build one of Al's (or Ron's) designs from plans. Much more difficult than a "standard stunter". I know since I am presently working on one of his more "simple" designs, a Classic Legal Bearcat, and I have built about every other style of Stunt Plane out there......

Yet there are many who actually like the appearance of a real plane. Especially Warbirds. This means that the planes they can feel comfortable with building and flying are "very semi" scale. My first venture into semi scale was in '71 with a Warburton Tony from Hobby Helper Plans. Not even close to scale, but it had a great "scale" type look to it in the air.

Don't be offended guys, I was just looking at it from the possible perspective of some fairly new flyer who has a wing sitting in the shop and would like to do something unique with it. Nothing wrong with that.

True, Al has nothing left to really prove.

Bill <><

Bill,

Got a Bearcat canopy for your Bearcat?

I don't have one to go with my plans, Al.

If you actually build the airplane, I'll see what I can do.

Speaking of FW-190's here's a link to some video of a recently built full scale FW-190 on an early test flight. Caution this is a big download. If you are on a dial-up connection your best bet is to save it to disk and go sand something for about an hour while it loads. There are also some good video of other warbirds at this site

http://www.avpics.de/lffamp/warbird.html