ARF NOBLER ENGINE CHOICE

Hey guys!
I have the scoop on the control mods for the TF Nobler ARF, but I can't seem to find the clear choice for powering this plane. I want an "out of the box" c/l engine so do I go with a LA25-S, or would the LA40-S be the better choice? What is the sweet set-up for this plane (engine,prop,line-length,etc)? I do have a really nice FS-26 four-stroke that needs a home- would this work?

Thanks for any help

All I know is what works for me. The good ole dependable Fox 35 stunt. DOC

Withe the Fox 35,do you use the stock muffler or a tongue muffler? Also, do you use pressure?
Glen

I use tongue muffler (RSM) and no pressure. DOC

I like my .40 LA. It is equipped with a metal back plate, a standard venturi mounted needle valve assy., and a tongue muffler I got from Leonard. With these mods., you can save a significant amount of weight. As I have posted before, with the nose beefed up, as well as a beefed up tail for stooge launching, mine balances almost perfectly. I use a Topflite 10/6 power point prop, and 60' lines.

Fox 35, Double Star 40, Brodak 40. All are out of the box, all are close to the same weight. (Fox 35 was the original choice.)
The OS 40LA will work.
Bill <><

The best flying combination I've seen was with a Fox35. One of the local expert pilots Rick Clark, at first flew with a Brodak but just couldn't get it to work properly. After watching Dave Cook put in killer patterns with a Fox35, he switched to a fox and has never looked back. In his opinion fox35 is a perfect engine for that nobler.

As I mentioned above, Dave Cook also flies his nobler with a fox35. Being typical Dave, he didn't read instructions and glued the wing the wrong way(lead outs on the right side instead of left). So instead of regluing the wing, he flies it clockwise. Dispite the handycap, he still can mix it up with the best of them!

Steven Yampolsky

I find it extremely strange that three folks mentioned in this thread have had success with such old (though still currently available) technology as the Fox .35. Maybe GMA actually knew what he was doing with that plane and engine combination after all. It's even possible that the metal tank included with the Brodak ARF will work well with that combination while providing ample fuel for the pattern. A guy might not have to add tail weight, a larger tank or longer gear.

Hmmmmm. What a concept! It boggles my mind!

>I find it extremely strange that three folks mentioned in
>this thread have had success with such old (though still
>currently available) technology as the Fox .35. Maybe GMA
>actually knew what he was doing with that plane and engine
>combination after all. It's even possible that the metal
>tank included with the Brodak ARF will work well with that
>combination while providing ample fuel for the pattern. A
>guy might not have to add tail weight, a larger tank or
>longer gear.
>
>Hmmmmm. What a concept! It boggles my mind!

Hi O S,

I still believe in trying to use an engine as close as possible to the original. A bigger, heavier engine means more dead weight.
For *most* of us, the Fox will do an outstanding job. The DS 40 and Brodak 40 are pretty close to the Fox in weight, and have (maybe) a little more useable grunt to pull a Nobler.

Of course, I do have Aero Tiger 36s, also. But, they are used in ships that I intend to use for double duty.

The Fox sems to get a lot of "bad press" from some, but stock and better yet reworked by Larry Foster, et.al., are more than the guy who isn't a top 20 flyer gives credit for. They are just "old school" engines that do what they are supposed to do.

Steve Fitton from VA made his greatest advancement in the Advanced class using a Fox in a Gieseke Nobler. And it was a very good combination.

Bill <><

J.R.

I found a great set-up for my ARF Nobler. I used an OS FP .40 (@9450 rpm) 11x 4.5 prop, 10/22 GMA Fuel with Aero-1 oil, with 57 ft. lines. This set up was a dead reliable and the result was a strong sense of command out at the handle.

Olive you keep
on flyn'

Check out the Electrified Arf Nobler over at the Barton site!
http://www.controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=202

I use an OS 35-FPS with tongue muffler on my Arf Nobler. Works great and pull it well. It has an excellent 2-4 break with the stock tank and 11x4 prop.

Go with the LA40 It will serve you well. Pick a good fuel 5/29 or 10/22 GMA or Fox fuel, Zinger props to start 10/5EW. 11/5W or 12/5. 60 foot lines. Setting up your TF ARF Nobler will be fun, not a lot muss or fuss. Make sure all flaps and elevators at at a true neutral position. Add a tongue muffler with pressure to the tank.

Break in for the engine will vary depending on who you talk to but one hour bench time will work.

With the 5/29 or 10/22 fuels release RPM should be between 7400 - 7600 RPM. These RPM's should translate to a lap time of about 5.4 -5.7 seconds, which is perfect for the Nobler. These laps time are indicative of my flying style, flying a 4-2-4 engine run that I use with my Nobler.

Take your time with the assembly, do it right and she will give you years of flying enjoyment. Mine has close to 400 flights without any problems.

J.R.

I put a bunch of flights on one with a Brodak .40 last summer. At least in this Minnesota climate and with that particular engine it was clearly overpowered. If you ran it on the proper 2/4 break. 63' lines, 5% fuel and an APC 10/4 were still giving me laps in the 4.4 to 4.6 second range; faster with a 10/5. Flight characteristics were excellant as long as you like fast stunt.
It was not friendly to longer lines than 63' (or 65' handle to spinner if you prefer), even at that speed.

The Nobler was borrowed, and I was primarily putting time on a new Brodak when the elevator link failed. That Brodak was broken in EXACTLY as he directs, has the large outlet muffler, and from what I read here, may be a particularly healthy one. Nothing like following directions....... The Brodak is bound for a 610 sq" Klapinski Tempest that should fly shortly.

I had a chance to pick another ARF Nobler up cheap in the box, and will put a nearly new Merco .35 RED head in it. Not the Blackhead which seemed to be a piece of junk. These are a bit stronger than the typical Fox before rework but not like the current group of 40's.

Unless you're in the "heat belt" any moderate .35 or equivelant should be great. At higher temps you may want more. One thing for sure: George had it right when he designed the Nobler!

Good luck

How much right thrust do you guys have on your engine setup? I bought one already made and flown. It is drilled for the LA40, but it has almost no right thrust. Apparently this works, because my friend flew it 10 times before he sold it to me. I guess I'm just squeamish about not having that thrust. I haven't flown it, yet. Waiting on a low wind day.
Glen

>How much right thrust do you guys have on your engine setup?
>Glen

If the leadouts are properly placed having no thrust offset is not a problem. The offset helps most at launch. My planes have had no offset, and the experts I fly with use almost none the most being around 2 degrees.

If my jig did not move anywhere from 0 - 2 degrees.

MikeC.

Put the Nobler in the air for the first time this PM, and all my misgivings about thrust, etc. went away. She's a beautiful bird, and should provide a lot of fun in the future. Brought back memories of the 60's when I went through two Noblers. She flies on rails!
Glen

Glen:

ONLY 2! You did a lot better job of avoiding the ground than I did back then. You probably built better also (most people did).

Jeff, that was in a former life. I think I remember building and flying these beween Vietnam tours and a tour in Germany. I remember building two, but can't remember all the details of flights, etc. I do know that the planes don't exist now. I also built and flew a Junior Nobler and flew it while on my second tour in Vietnam. We were on a large firebase, and had a small open area for take off. Then we had to fly out over the perimeter wire. To land, depending on where the engine quit, we had to whip the plane around and try to get it back to the open spot. Actually, we got pretty proficient.
Glen

I used a Fox 35 with a 10-6 EW Rev-Up on 64 foot lines handle to prop, Brodak BH-489 tank, had to modify tank comperment ot get it to fit nice, also made mod to motor mounts and installed a baffel to help the air get out of engine comperment.Also changed the control system. Good luck with whatever engine you drcide to use.

Joe Gilbert

I used a out of the box engine but it was a little extra work to install it.I used a Stalker 40 rear exhaust.I got about 15 flights before the snow flew and I was getting the plane and engine working not to bad.I started with a old Top Flite 10-6 and it was so so.I then tried my favorite 40 size prop the APC 11-4 and what a difference.Then I tried the APC 11-5 and it was by far the best so far.This was all on Coopers 5% fuel.The engine is really easy handling with good power.I was doing all the test flying on 56ft eye to eye lines.I will be going to 60ft lines in the spring.This is a great little motor that is light and reasonably prices being that they come with a very nice carbon rear muffler,3 extra venturis,extra head gsks,allen wrenches,rear cover wrench ect.I think the side exh Stalker 40 would be a great bolt in motor for the 40 size classic ships.My 2 cents.

Brodak 40. 11x5 Wood prop....Sullivan 4oz uniflow tank setup = bulletproof for the ARF nobler.

Brodak 40, 11.5X4 APC, Lou's Brew 5/25, Thunderbolt Idle Bar plug.