Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 69 of 69 known posts recovered
You might want to try phoning him instead.
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"It rubs the lotion on its skin,
it does this whenever it's told..
It rubs the lotion on its skin,
or else it gets the hose again.."
Now, it places the lotion in the basket.
It places the lotion in the basket.
Put the ^%#! lotion in the basket!
Ahhhh!
Aaahhhhh Aaaahhh!"
-Buffalo Bill, from Silence of the Lambs
Did he also send you a copy of what Ted wrote back? There are a few holes in the fence that are being ignored. And it is not just Ted.
If you or I were to submit a by-laws change proposal (which we would have the right to do) would we then send a letter to be published in Stunt News saying we had submitted it to the EC when we had not? Shouldn't any conversation say we will be doing so rather than that is what we have done? And wouldn't it be prudent to wait for the EC reaction before going public in saying it has gone to the EC and will soon be in your hands to vote on? It seems like it is an effort to make the EC look bad if they turn him down.
Take a look at the latest PAMPA ads in Flying Models. You will notice it is here called a control line organization with a bi-monthly magazine that covers "all skill levels and C/L interests".
No it doesn't. All skil levels, yes. All C/L interests, no. I guess the next thing is to submit a name change. We can't call this the "Precision Aerobatics Model Pilots Association" now, can we, if we change the purpose so that it covers all interests?
Shall we have a contest to change the name while we are at it? He wants, apparently, to change everything else.
Leonard Neumann
Steve Hulse
These are NOT ATTACKs, nor are they going on behind his back. John himself made these issues public knowledge. And several people have REPEATEDLY asked for explanations of these and related actions for at least 4 months, with either no response or dismissive response. Several in the last week.
There is no dark agenda, there is no speculation, it's hard black and white print - He wants to change organization to a general C/L organization, and he wants to change the EC makeup so that the president is in charge and the trustees are, in effect, the "employees" of the president. Rather than the other way around as it is now. The motivation was stated in his campaign letter, and his other actions have been reasonably consistent with that motivation. Not consulting with the EC and particularly, cutting several directors known to be opposed to these ideas out of the loop to the extent possible, is also perfectly consistent with this plan. Changing FM ad print to delete references to Precision Aerobatics is consistent with this plan.
Why this is his motivation is certainly speculative, although his stated motivation is to make the organization more responsive to its sport-flying membership. How any of the changes relate to this goal is hard to see, as there's nothing in the current rules or the proposed changes that seem to be in any way related to this goal.
Several factually incorrect statements were printed in Stunt News, by John, regarding these issues. That's NOT DEBATABLE, it's undeniably true, and had been conceded. This was as public as it gets. They are thus perfectly legitimate points for public commentary.
There's a huge difference between that, and, say, calling people names, and sending anonymous emails and profane phone calls at off hours of the night, which has been the primary form of counter-argument. That and mute silence from anyone who can clear it up Although it really doen't need much clearing up at this point- it's perfectly transparent as far as the issues and intents go, which I also believe is acknowledged by all parties.
This had been in debate, on and off, for months, in private. That is no longer possible, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because of exactly what is going on right now - the debate is being formed along the lines of "class warfare". This serves the purpose of those who think the best way to get what they want is to divide the organization along lines of ideology, hero worship, and associated "cult affiliation". On both sides, in some cases.
Essentially everything stated here, and more, has been directly communicated with John via email, and since he has tangentially acknowledged these emails, there is no doubt that these are not behind-the-back cheap shot. These are VALID ISSUES that it is the duty of mine as a trustee to investigate and debate in behalf of the members of District 10. Much the same as it it Don Hutchinson's job, and Bruce Hunt's job, and Windy's job, and Shareen's job, and soon-to-be Ted's job, and Phil Spillman's job, etc....
That's what we signed up for, and that's exactly what I am going to do. It also serves each member's purpose to become familiar with these issue - in ALL their aspects, and with the most accurate possible information - in order to make well-informed decisions.
Criticism of John Brodak's position and his actions IS NOT intrinsically an "attack" in the sense you mean, and continuning to propogate this absurd notion only serves the plan to divide the organization along falsely defined lines. Maybe that's what you want, but that's not what most people, want no matter what side of this issue they come down on.
I'm perfectly willing to listen to, and even encourage counter-arguments, when they are really counter to positions. If there is some aspect to this that I am missing I would welcome hearing about it. I and several other EC members have been bending over backwards to accomodate everyone's opinion, and trying to minimize the hyperbole. But when these comments are "well, you just don't like John and he 'saved the hobby' so shut up, you elitists!" then they are worse than useless, they are counterproductive to any useful decision-making process.
Brett
I should state that many of my flying pals, all PAMPA members, also fly stuff like diesel combat, team race, carrier, in addition to precision acro. I am also one who flies more than just Precision Stunt. I fly R/C gliders, small FF models, and even old time rubber Free flight.
I remember not long ago, at a VSC banquet, the late Clarence Bull was recognized as PAMPA member # 1000. We have somehow doubled PAMPA membership in only a few years. Surely, we must be doing something right!
Expanding the scope of PAMPA will only help our cause. The top 20 flyers will still be going head-to-head for the hardware. The rest of us will enjoy whatever we do, and are pleased to read about those who are really serious about being "top gun".
One final comment on SN. I have come to appreciate Dan's humor. Tom Dixon once commented, "the guy thinks he is funnier than he actually is". (paraphrased). I now disagree wih Dixon on this.
Floyd
Walter
I for got the important question---- Who approved the change??
The ad changed between the February and the March issue. Given the lead time, this would mean it was changed somewhere in the early January time frame.
> I for got the important question---- Who approved the
>change??
Excellent question, that I and several other have asked and been unable to find an answer to despite repeated and pointed inquiries. The only response has been, in effect, that it was none of our business and to stay out of it.
Brett
Norvald Olsvold
I've written him and have gotten a response. One of those "thanks for you interest" responses. Didn't say much.
Whatever. I've made my feelings known to my district director. I'm sure he will act accordingly.
Steve Wonder what the new name will be? I mean, the name PAMPA is so exclusionary and elitist, after all.
Hey West Coast guys! Get you money into Flying Lines now before the rush.
I know what's what and who's who.
But I have no idea why's why.
Hawk
Aren't we getting just a little bit hysterical here, folks?
Good God! Why not simply string John up? That seems to be the objective here. I wonder if it would be possible for him to ever please you? Couldn't you always find SOMETHING to bitch about? What has the man actually DONE to ruin PAMPA? What, specifically, are the damages? Has he been promoting our organization again?
Meanwhile, no one seems able to muster the courage and practical sense to simply call John and talk about it. It's easier to make silly projections and cast aspersions on the SSWF..
You realize, of course, that your problem was ever allowing your President to be elected by a general ballot. You might have known the 90% of the great unwashed (non-competitors) in the organization would elect someone unsuitable to the killer elite. And this guy would go out and try to promote PAMPA!
Wooo! PAMPA down the tubes - being corrupted by an influx of rat racers, scale modelers, carrier flyers, combat bums, who knows what else? Horrible! (I need to look closer at the Brodak catalog and see what nefarious promotion of non-stunt products John is up to!)
All my years in PAMPA, I had NO IDEA just what an exclusive, elite organization it was! Here I thought it was just a bunch of people with a common interest in CLPA, about 10% of which were serious competitors. And I attended VSC contests, under the delusion than simple interest in and enthusiasm for Stunt was the only common denominator.
May I suggest that the new organization simply flush any pretense of general elections, and make life appointments of the appropriate people for leaders?
This crap reminds of the "red state, blue state" stupidity associated with the recent elections.
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"Conduct is more convincing than language." -John Woolman
Dennis Moritz
How unkind and arrogant on your part to attack those who disagree with your idea of how PAMPA should operate and what it's true charter and reason to exist are. Those you attack wish for PAMPA to remain as it is as a SIG that advocates Precision Stunt Aerobatics for control line. That is what it was created for by very honorable people over 30 years ago. They wish for it to remains as it was created. You don't agree. That is your perogative. But, their opinion has as much value as yours. If you want PAMPA to become a General CL organization, then argue your position on its merits in the arena of ideas, submit your proposals and amendments to the EC and take your chances with a 2/3rds vote. Then accept the outcome be it win or lose. But, refrain from belittling those that do not agree with you or the PAMPA President. I say this as one who voted for John Brodak as President of PAMPA.
Tom McClain
OK, one more time from my point of view. The executive council should meet to deliberate on proposals as wide ranging as those now being proposed. You don't just poll them, or poll a group of them and then include the others. If one person has an objection, the others should be able to hear it and respond to it. If one member supports it, the others should hear his arguments for support which may sway them. It is "give and take" in a meeting situation. I have no idea how John proposes to "present" his proposals.
I do know, however, that his proposals are far reaching enough to change it into a sport organization embracing all phases of CL activity. Yes, it is CL activity, but that is not the chartered purpose of PAMPA. It is like taking NASCAR and changing it to include drag racers, go karts, and motor bikes because it is all racing and this is good for the sport. This is PAMPA. Look at the name, guys. If you want an all inclusive sport CL organization, go start one. If you change PAMPA into this, well, you had better change the name as well.
Leonard Neumann
And how was it pulled off, without going through appropriate methods? WHAT, specifically, has actually been changed? Somehow I seem to have missed it.
The only thing I see are a handful of very vocal folks with their backs up about some perceived assault on PAMPA (more likely their egos). But where's the damage to PAMPA?
What portion of our charter, rules, procedures have actually been changed? And how DID John manage to pull it off?
It's past time for PAMPA to operate like a grown-up organization. Let's get beyond this petty bickering. CALL John and complain to him directly, stop projecting things that have not occurred. John Brodak's phone number is (724) 966-2559.
Let's get back to the discussions on CL stunters. 
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"Show my head to the people, it is worth seeing." -Georges Danton, to his executioner
Amen again and halleluhah!!!! I think I said the same thing in another thread.
The City Smasher
Tnx, Mike, the "Old Harley Man" [email protected]
"As a young man I started with nothing and still have most of it"
Please don't draw the wrong conclusions. PAMPA's success over the years has been on the backs of a handful of dedicated volunteers (boy, HAVE they given - God bless them), a larger group of talented flyers, builders, writers, and others who are extremely enthusiastic (and very willing to help others), and finally a broad mix of all sorts of people who love model airplanes, specifically control line STUNT models.
I've watched the organization grow and prosper, and produce what is arguably the best "newsletter" on the planet. And the common denominator has always been an open willingness to share information. I'd have to say that I've met MANY of my closest friends in something related to PAMPA!
So, don't miss out. That would be a big mistake. (Join PAMPA.)
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" In my house there's this light switch that doesn't do anything. Every so often I would flick it on and off just to check. Yesterday, I got a call from a woman in Germany. She said: Cut it out!" -Steven Wright
alfadawg
Tnx, Mike, the "Old Harley Man" [email protected]
"As a young man I started with nothing and still have most of it"
I'm with you.
Please examine the bylaws. So far none have been broken by the party under discussion, so you can rest easy.
BIGS
Mike, hopefully Dave, Mike, Mark,Carl etc including myself are the buddies you mentioned. Trust me on this one. I have been a member of PAMPA off and on since its' inception and the one thing that has meant the most ot me and my connection to PAMPA is the great guys that I have met and have made what I hope will be a lifelong friendship with them.
The Stunt News itself is worth much more than the "tempest" that pops up every now and then. You know our ability in the circle Mike. If we, the "unwashed" within the group of those that in your words think only of "THE PATTERN" can love PAMPA I am positive that you will find it worthwhile too.
In the coming year I am hoping to introduce you to some of the greatest people I have ever met in the Northwest. We will meet them at a contest or two. Most can fly better than we can, some on a National level, but with the exception of Dan, they are really great! Also, these same guys are almost without exception PAMPA MEMBERS.
Joe Just
Joe; why pick on Dan? You know I fly more than just aerobatics. But, I do not aspire to be National Champion in any of events. I fly for fun lately and been having a ball. If you could the airforce I am working on. The granddaughters are number one right now. Also PAMPA and Stunt News has helped me in the other events. Now lets keep PAMPA the way it is. Later, -DOC:)
Tnx, Mike, the "Old Harley Man" [email protected]
"As a young man I started with nothing and still have most of it"
Steve Hulse
John was elected. So were all the members of the EC. Those EC members were elected because they represent the values of the people in the district.
How in the ##### can that be a CABAL?
The City Smasher
Don
Three beers from the front pew.
I am with you on this.
Bigiron
Bigiron13
Charlie Pate
Perhaps I am naive but I have not found PAMPA to be elitist. It is a good place for a newbie or general interest flyer to be until that flyer finds another type of flying more interesting, and is no longer interested in PA.
Since my flying skills are at the bottom end of the stunt food chain, I usually refrain from entering discussions about rules unless I have a question. I think those who know them well and use them often should make those decisions. After all, isn't that what a SIG is for?
I do not intend to insult anyone, just express my opinion.
George
Why, whatever do you mean? Noted a certain geographical distribution, did you?
I'm sure that in the "black helicopter" world of John's apparent closest advisors, that this merely attempts to "compensate" for the many evils imposed on the membership over the years from somewhat larger values of longitudes.
Besides, if you want to do something, you don't send to people who are known to oppose your ideas. And John can form any committees he wants.
I might note that there hasn't been a president or vice president from the "West Coast" for many years - Ted was the last. Dixon (GA), Buso(NJ),Keville (Kuwait!! almost so far east it's west!),McMillan (TX), Brodak(PA).
> Brett is saying that the EC will prevent John Brodak
>from enacting these By-Laws changes, but if 7 of 11 District
>Directors are in the "Core Group", how much of a chance is
>there for the others to prevent it, if they (Core Group) all
>vote in unison? Steve
We'll see. Maybe some of the "core group" are not entirely on board with this plan, either.
Also, you seem to be buying that this is in fact an East Coast/West Coast thing, when in reality things are the way they are as the result of the efforts of ALL the trustees from everywhere over the years. Such a division exists only for tactical purposes (much like the "sport flier/elitist" division). I trust that the district directors will act in the interests of their constituents, and not on this sort of artificial division, or as "sock puppets".
If that results in changing PAMPA to a general C/L organization (which is in any practical sense, moot, although highly irritating), and more importantly removes the authority of the EC and vests it in the president (a far more important proposed change) then that's the way it will be. I doubt that sounds any better in the Eastern or Central time zones than it does in PST.
I gotta give some credit - it does seem to be working on some level.
Brett
Steve Brett; sure glad you left out the middle part of this great country.DOC:)
Steve Central AND MOUNTAIN time zones! That better...?
Brett "and, since I also represent the 50th State, the Hawaiian Time Zone, too. Bruce can claim Alaska...". Buck
Right, wrong or indifferent on anyone's part, the negativity needs to come to a screeching halt. Nothing is accomplished, other than showing how good we are at slingin' mud. This type of negativity may be detrimental to others becoming interested in Control line PA or C/L in general.
Our club had many complaints about every meeting being negative and not discussing what we are all together doing; that is building and flying model airplanes. We have tried to dissuade negativity towards other members who wish to be heard and we are focusing more on bringing models and talking about flying/building.
This is what we ALL need to do. Life is too short to be mad all the time. So let's get in as much model airplane time as possible!
Mary
P.S. Why can't we all just get along?
Jim
There's no assuming necessary. It's clearly stated in several places, and there's no debate what it is. John makes no bones about it, nor do I think he should be expected to.
He wants it to change and is proceeding with the changes. Some people don't want it to change, and are working to oppose the changes.
It's not a hate-fest or flame war, at least not for me, and I can also say, not from John, either. He has responded politely in every case that he has responded. The responses were not overly helpful, but it's all being done without undue rancor from John. I can't say the same for some of his supporters, of course,
As far as "inept" goes, that's your word, not mine. I think it's more like there was a lot of unanticipated opposition.
I still think everything would have been a lot better overall had he simply just submitted it fully formed on January 1st, instead of trying to play it close to the vest. It will end up debated in the full light of day, or it won't get done.
Brett
Don
I've read most of the posts about the PAMPA bylaw change(s) on this site and I've noticed it mentioned, then later repeated, that any proposed bylaw amendment would only procede to the general membership after a 2/3 vote of approval of the Trustees.
Where is this procedure explained? Specifically the 2/3 vote of the Trustees?
It's not in 'Article XII – Amendments to Bylaws'. The only criteria for passage detailed there is the 2/3 vote of the general membership, not the trustees.
XII actually says nothing about how the Trustees shall determine if the proposed change should advance to the membership.
On the issue of approving an amendment proposal for a general vote Article XII only states, "...the Trustees shall determine if the proposed amendment should be presented to the membership, and if so, the exact wording thereof and the time of presentation."
Are we just assuming bylaw amendment proposals need a 2/3 vote of Trustees to pass out of that committee? The bylaws don't specifically say that.
In all sincerity, and I'm not trying to complicate things, but am I missing something here? To me the bylaws don't appear to state what procedure, or vote, will determine if an amendment proposal is approved by the Trustees.
For reference here's the full Article XII from the PAMPA website:
Article XII – Amendments to Bylaws:
Any active member or any Trustee may submit a proposed bylaw amendment to the Trustees at any time. Upon such a submission, the Trustees shall determine if the proposed amendment should be presented to the membership, and if so, the exact wording thereof and the time of presentation. All proposed amendments and action taken thereon shall be reported to the membership in the next issue of the newsletter following receipt of the proposal. Presentation of a proposed amendment to the membership shall be made in the newsletter, and adoption thereof shall occur only on a favorable vote of a two thirds majority of those members responding.
It's not, that's not the rule. It takes a 2/3 membership vote (as you quoted) to pass a bylaws change. It's supposed to take a EC vote for the proposal to be presented to the membership for this vote, but that on requires a simple majority. Of the EC- NOT OF THE FRACTION OF THE EC THAT IS NOTIFIED.
One might anticipate there will to be an attempt to use the "no quorum necessary" clause to exclude those who are not deemed 'worthy', by not asking them, and this will render any vote taken that way VOID and would be VIGOROUSLY opposed.
Brett
Another projection. What other tricky possibilities might you dream up, Brett? Perhaps to notify only 6 EC members, all known to support something? Yeh, that sounds feasible! (Well, at least possible! One might anticipate it!)
Look at what you are suggesting - it's completely ludicrous. Do you realize how this all appears?
Get a grip. It's all going to turn out all right.
BTW, those folks worried about the dilution and corruption of our (currently) "pure" CLPA organization might notice that a considerable number of current PAMPA members don't even fly stunt. Already. For years now. Yet they have not harmed us.
(Well, now, maybe they did - by electing a President who wasn't in the Inner Circle..) 
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"Life is not a spectacle or a feast; it is a predicament." -George Santayana
Jim
I don't see how the "no Quorum" concept applies to this issue. Seems to me that this rule applies to meetings of the entire membership not for EC meetings.
Ah, but the concept CAN be projected into some wild assumption of nefarious activities on the part of the President, as Brett has illustrated!
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"Politics I supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblence to the first." -Ronald Reagan
How do you explain the fact that Don H., Brett, Dave F and some other EC members will not informed of John's proposals until after it broke here on SSW? Seems to me that the appearrance and the fact that not all of the EC was informed as required generates some doubt as to John's intentions.
Tom McClain
It still hasn't been shown where the PAMPA President is prevented from selecting a committee or group to study or make recommendations WITHOUT "informing all EC members". While I agree that it would be common courtesy and protocol, there may be other explanations: people aren't home when you call them, emails bounce, article lead times cause problems, things are overlooked, human errors occur, etc.
All the sharpening of knives on this forum generates some doubt as to intentions of a few folks, I'm afraid.
Why not simply be honest about your displeasure with the PAMPA election results, and stop all this charade? Next time you can elect a President who'll maintain your concept of status quo. What is occurring now is clearly contrived and phoney.
I've said it before, it would be helpful to muster the courage to actually call the President and communicate with him directly. Instead, this petty, whiney public behavior continues, without any positive results.
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"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." -John Kenneth Galbreath
(He said, trying to add a bit of levity)
Once again Larry, bravo.
I would be much easier if, for the next election the PAMPA "Fathers" would simply release a list of acceptable names for the EC and and presidency.
I guess no one ever figured the "the great unwashed" would actually amass a majority in the EC and not necessarily endorse the status quo so beloved by the Fathers and Mothers.
Shocker...
Has anyone read the campaign statement letter for Frank McMillan written by the "Committee to Re-Elect Frank McMillan" (based in PAMPA headquarters on Flying Cloud)? It is a direct attack on Windy---by name (who apparently leads the Kabal whose sole adjenda is the immediate downfall of PAMPA). This I find funny in the extreme since Windy has always represented PAMPA to me much more than the self proclaimed "Fathers and Mothers" of PAMPA. The whole thing makes me want to WRETCH.
When I joined PAMPA in the late 80's Windy WAS PAMPA, and now he is the target of written campaigns proclaiming that his adjenda is not worthy of consideration. So much so that the elections sole topic should be the elimination of his adgenda, as PAMPA needs defending from Windy? Give me a break...and to use his name? That is balls.
It is amazing how much the PAMPA history has been re-written in just the last few years. The East Coast PAMPA supporters such as Windy and Dixon were paramount in most likely SAVING PAMPA FROM EXTINCTION in the easrly 90's and late 80's when support had dropped to a handful of supporters (maybe 100 members). Tom Dixon and Windy did more to keep interest alive than anyone I could see. Now they are considered "evil", and anyone associated with them are by association, also "evil".
YOU SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.
PS: Anyone who wants to see the letter, e-mail me.
The City Smasher
>All the sharpening of knives on this forum generates some doubt as
>to intentions of a few folks, I'm afraid.
>
>Why not simply be honest about your displeasure with the PAMPA election results, and stop all
>this charade? Next time you can elect a President who'll maintain your concept of status quo.
>What is occurring now is clearly contrived and phoney.
Never having flown in a contest and lacking necessary skills to do so, I'm about as far from the elite and as much a sport flyer as you can find. I joined PAMPA for just the benefits I'm receiving, and I expect no more. It has been worth my investment. I don't need it to be anything but competition oriented, and I see no conflict between its stated purpose and what it provides me. Since you've been the best, most generous mentor I've had, I have tried my best to see this your way. I cannot. I also like Mr. Brodak a lot, but I still can't see the sense in this. I have seen no malice nor imaginings in what Brett has said here. Perhaps I'm giving him the consideration that some are demanding for John. Would that be bad?
>I've said it before, it would be helpful to muster the courage to actually call the President
>and communicate with him directly. Instead, this petty, whiney public behavior continues,
>without any positive results.
I have read on these SSWF threads that several have done so. What am I missing here? I don't think anything will be legislated illegally, but courtesy and good will seem to have been circumvented already.
Serge
Serge Krauss
You make a very good point. Courtesy and good will go a long way toward solving problems. But to go with these, we need some actual communication. John needs to do a better job of it. And so do the rest of us.
Everyone deserves consideration as well. To a major degree, I agree very strongly with the idea that PAMPA's single, absolute purpose is CLPA. But I simply don't see it in peril, nor do I see anything wrong with PAMPA tightening up its business procedures and updating its bylaws. I don't see a more overt policy to broaden PAMPA's membership as harmful (the existing Bylaws call for increasing membership), and frankly, it's completely consistent with what PAMPA has historically done. It's a very inclusive organization!
Existing procedures require 2/3 approval of Bylaw changes by the general membership - that's pretty good protection against any unreasonable changes.
I don't intend to demean anyone's concept of PAMPA's intended purpose. My point is that people are not acting appropriately.
I'm also guilty of over reacting - if I've offended anyone, I apologize.
Now, let's get back to rock n' roll!
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Masochist: "Now I want you to hurt me, real bad.."
Sadist: "No! No!"
Tnx, Mike, the "Old Harley Man" [email protected]
"As a young man I started with nothing and still have most of it"
I guess it just depends on who you consider to be a viable participant in the primary activity. For example, Whitely made it quite clear at the Nats meeting this year that the Nats sole function is to crown a National Champion. All other activities, including the lower skill classes, are not part of this sole function.
I would disagree with this. I believe just the opposite in fact. The lesser classes are the future of our event and should be of paramount importance.
I also believe that John is pissing into the wind with changing the bylaws. It will ultimately cause more problems that it will fix (as seen on this forum). Plently of things could be accomplished to the common good without any changes at all. I think the new EC is seated with good representatives that are truly representative of their communities. I don't think there will be any problems examining changes to organization due to this fact.
The City Smasher
to your post #61 in this mess...
There are other SIGs for the other CL events: MACA for Combat, NCLRA for racing, NCLS for Carrier, Speed has its group and Scale is often grouped in a Scale General arrangement -- at least their rules are merged with Scale General.
These are all recognized by AMA, designated as AMA Special Interest Groups. And, yes, it is kind of a mess for those of us so inclined to pay dues to AMA and whichever SIGs serve our interests.
HOG = PAMPA in a way. Not everyone in either group lives ONLY to compete in formal meets. I don't think a HOG chapter would enjoy someone trying to sneak in a Jet-Ski or dune buggy competition as a major purpose, or would they?
\BEST\LOU
Apparently you "overlooked" the fact that in Stunt News, John said that the Executive Council had been notified. Did you happen to read the posts from Don Hutchison? He is on the EC and wasn't notified of anything! If you say well John's just notfying those that will be on the EC come January, how come Dave Fitz said he hadn't been notified of anything? This appears to be a highly selective committee John has chosen and not nearly a representative microcosim of PAMPA as a whole. One can olny get the idea that there *IS* something tricky going on in Carmichaels PA.
Jim Pollock 
It was also explain Steve Moon WAS "notified".
The City Smasher
Also, all of the Executive Council should have been informed before any mention of what was occuring got into stunt news. Then the coulcil must determine the final wording of what is proposed to the members and approve the ballot initiative by a 2/3 majority vote. It appears from the Stunt News article that John has selectivley informed some EC members he believes would be favorable to his proposal. The proposal is the change PAMPA into a General Control line organization. My personal opinion is, and I really don't care much about stepping on toes here; is that John is trying to get PAMPA changed into a general control ine organization to help his business venture in general control line merchandise. I really can't see any kind of need to address the people who are members of other Special Interest Groups. Scale, Speed, Combat, Carrier, Team/Rat race and so forth. There may be plenty of "Sport Flyers" who don't care about any kind of competitions and had rather not have to deal with it except for reading our publication Stunt News. Shoud the organization be changed into something explicitly for "Sport Flyer" NO, definitely not! Could a seperate organization specifically for the Sport Flyer and like minded be formed. "Absolutely"! Is it O.K. for the not contest oriented to "HIJACK" PAMPA. Absolutely not! If such course of action continues and PAMPA becomes changed into a General Control line organization, I do see the 400-500 competition mined to withdraw their membership in PAMPA and form a separate Competition Model Aerobatic Pilots Association. My personal opinion bottom line is that PAMPA works just fine as it exists and doesn't need to be changed in any way shape or form. O.K. and I will in fact be calling my district representative "Kent Tysor" and "Mr. Brodak himself and express my viewpoint. Hopefully, this will work out as well or better than I can hope for alone!
Jim Pollock, A PAMPA member who happens to have an opinion wheather it's popular or not!
alfadawg
Bob,
It was awhile back, but I remember when one of the NJ/PA crowd actually changed the name of our newsletter. There were a lot of coincidental things going on there. And of course the name was eventually changed back to Stunt News.
Such rememberances do give one pause, however...
Are you gonna drag your sorry rear end up to the NW Regionals next year? Love to see ya, step on your lines, tweak that rudder when you're not looking.
Dan
Hey Bob,
How you doing Bob? We/I need to hear more from you..Stunt news appears to be slowly changing from what it used to be already..Remember the alligator ones, hard to read, but strictly devoted to percision aerobatics..I am not saying we return to 1979, but somethings have already changed Bob..The change is related to content..Thanks David..
WHO is promoting such an idea, BTW?
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"Man does not live by words alone, despite the fact that he sometimes has to eat them." -Adlai Stevenson