A PAMPA growing CL question.

Locally, we have put out sign-up sheets for CL interested people in the hobby shops, but that's about it.

What y'all think?

My gut feeling is that "PAMPA growing C/L" is putting things backwards. When I first got into the hobby, my original intent was to build and fly R/C planes, but I didn't have much money. The first thing I decided to do was to get a Cox BabyBee, build a small 1/2A plane and try that. That proved frustrating at first, but almost immediately I found several online communities like the late-lamented FlightLines, and got advice there. I had an old C/L engine, a McCoy 35 Redhead, so I built a Skyray to hang it on, and the rest is pretty much history.

I think the key, for me, was finding the online communities. When I started posting there, I thought I was the only oddball in my neck of the woods trying to do C/L, and didn't even know of the existence of a circle at one of the local flying fields. Thanks to posting online, the local guys found ME. PAMPA members all. However, until recently, I saw no real need to join PAMPA myself. While I was in the early learning phase, I felt I was not ready for the technical information that PAMPA is so well known for. Even now, most of it is over my head, but as I gain experience, I'm able to absorb and make use of more and more of it.

Tim

Each PAMPA member receives a PAMPA directory which lists all the members both alphbetically and by state. Keeping this at hand by the telephone and letting your local hobby shop that such help is available should help to get people together. The directory itself shouldn't be shared in such a manner for obvious reasons of personal information security.

A perfect example of why PAMPA needs to step up to the plate, and accept responsibility of furthering CL in general. It doesn't have to remove the competition focus, just the hostility.

But Tom, now you are back to "CL in general" and that is what breeds the hostility. PAMPA is a Speical Interest Group of the AMA. Special Interest means special interest. We don't delegate the competition aspect to a comittee and shunt it off to the side while we do other things. If anything, we delegate those other things to a committee while PAMPA retains its original focus and goes about doing its primary chartered purpose.

What you need is a separate CL club to start your vision. Maybe you could pattern it after PAMPA's success instead of trying to remake PAMPA by patterning it after something else.

Maybe the view that PAMPA is a "club" is part of the hostility, too.

I merely thought that the other post was a perfect reference to the fact that "stunting" is the first thing attempted after level flight - for almost any control line flying. As the SIG for precision stunting, PAMPA is the natural choice to have some role in that.

As I read and respond to the various threads this view is forming in my mind.

Only LOCAL CLUBS can be the basic door for people to get into C/L in general. AMA, while not perfect, is a good source of material and advice on that aspect and how to set up a club.

As clubs and memberships grow, PAMPA needs to be a clearly encouraging voice in guiding people into competitive PA and, ideally,
a source of direction toward that end. I suppose you could say that means to act as a clearinghouse for material to help PA grow and in doing so encourage competition.

PAMPA is NOT a large, well funded organization with a staff who can be easily diverted to these projects. It is a remarkably successful organization with a very little staff (mostly one "miracle worker" named Shareen), which does great things with very little help. We need to keep that in mind anytime we think of adding activities.

What CAN be done is to look at ways to guide local clubs with entry level competition and the materials to encourage it. Virtually all of this can be written material and with a little organizing that could even be supplied as donations by those members wishing to participate, ready for mailing or E-mailing as needed. A few things that come to mind are basic tips on flying the patterns, how to structure a local meet and what is needed to do it, contact assistance with members who might personally be willing to provide guidance (with E-mail this needn't be local), etc. I'm sure that if asked, many PAMPA members would be happy to help out or help fund this type of activity. Shareen's load would then be simply to send out what's appropriate.

To me, this fits exactly with what the by-laws state and certainly should be part of our activities. Once a flyer gets enough pattern together to fly beginner or a club see's the interest to run competitive stunt competition, PAMPA should be the "go to" place to find out how. We already have a great start with STUNT NEWS and an unmatched competition tradition; I'm really just talking about pitching in and extending a bit more on the entry level competitor. We don't need to take anything from the traditional high end work PAMPA has done so well.

Tim,

I think your comments and feelings are spot on. I just wish a lot more of the posters on this forum agreed, but I don't think so. Putting a notice in Hobby Shops is backwards, too. That assumes that there are clubs around in the first place, and they're not. Instead, I leave my business cards with the Hobby Shop owners and beg them to have someone call me that shows an interest.

(It's not as if I live in TimBuck2, either - there are 3 or 4 RC fields within a 20 minute drive.)

Yes, I was the one that took the pictures posted recently of the meet. It's a far piece from where I live, and I've been a few times with no one showing up.

Huntsville is a nice town. I entered some of the contests they had there in the early 70's - at the abandoned airport, I believe. Then came back each year for about 10-12 years to the Intergraph convention. I actually worked at Lockheed in Marietta all that time. The big tank in the B-1 parking lot with the LM star on it is mine (so is all the equipment around it). It's not some place I'm used to going for liesure, but I guess that's my own problem.

I am blessed to even live an area that has contests. I recognize that. It's just that it seems like there's no interest to improve on that situation, or even convince anyone that there's a problem - for new people.

Thank you for the kind suggestion.

Again per the bylaws The Membership Secretary shall be responsible to foster increases in membership in PAMPA.

I wonder if the PAMPA homepage could be modified such that a person looking for a local contact could have an easier time of it. Keeping in mind all the privacy issues, computer security, etc. which others understand better than I do.

I recently had a one-sided e-converstion about this very topic with a friend who is a PAMPA member. I was at one time, a very avid competitor who flew controline in both the US and Canadian Nats. Even won the overall championship at the Toronto T&D. I'm 47 years old. I have three ships trimmed and ready to go sitting in my shop. One of them should be pretty competitive. Just cleaned off the bench for another. At this point in my life, I really don't have the inclination to go fly contests anymore. So,I'm off by my own. But, I could still be usefull in helping new flyers or interested people getting started.

I live in a metropolitan area with over one million people, and as far as I know I'm the only CL flyer in the area.

So why should PAMPA care? Maybe no reason, and I fully respect PAMPA's right to be whatever it wants to be. Just because it's not the right organization for me personally doesn't mean that there's something wrong with PAMPA. Seems to be a great organization with dedicated and skilled people.

I do think as an outsider, however, that the possibility exists that PAMPA my be missing one point. One of the things I beleive a competive organization needs to do maintain a high level of competition is to actively replace members lost to normal attrition with new members in order to ensure the competition will continue into the future. From what I can see from lurking the SSW forum, it seems to me that the majority of people that are new members fall into the category of "retreads". Like I said earlier, I'm 47 and probably at the tail end of the distribution of guys that are retread competition candidates. So, after the retreads, where is the new recruitment coming from?

My question may be a result of my own ignorance. Perhaps my observations are wrong. In which case, no problem, and keep up the good work.

But for argument's sake, let's assume I'm correct. If no kids or young adults, or even middle agers are exposed to the hobby, how will they be become interested in it and take it up? If they don't, and the average age of a stunt flyer goes up by one every year, how will the competition be able to maintain itself at it's highest possible level? Where will the next Al Rabe or Windy come from? Again, I still see many of the same names at the "top of the heap" I saw in the late Sevenites, over 30 years ago.

So the big question most of you are asking by now, is why should this guy care if he isn't a member or active competitor? Valid question. I'll give you my two reasons. First, even though I'm not flying competitively, I would be a good resource in my area to help a newcomer. I'd actually enjoy finding a fellow flyer and passing on what I can. But at this point, not being into it enough -competition-to warrant (in my mind) the need to be PAMPA member, nobody would know to contact me. Who knows, I might even get motivated to get back into contests that way. And now that I really couldn't care less if I won or lost, It would probably be a ball. Second, I'd like to see the hobby continue. many of the things I learned in controline flying served me well as an aerospace engineer. I'd like to see kids get excited like I did and consider a technical vocation. Since the way most kids get exposed to R/C is via store bought toys, I beleive the technical educational and lessons learned from modeling ( heck, by the time I was 10 I could read an engineering drawing!) have been lost.

Please don't take my comments as some cranky old fart with an axe to grind. Not the case at all. Just offering up my point of view. Please feel free to educate me where I'm incorrect. Nothing but respect for the active competitors.

You said it a lot better than me. I agree with everything you said.

Someone needs to encourage the hobby, not just stunt competition. That may or may not be PAMPA, but it seems like others are asking that same question. It shouldn't be viewed as an attack. I finally made a frustrated comment on another thread about being at an age where I'm arguing with my idols.

They are still my idols, regardless of a lot of this forum stuff.

Thank you.

I think that is a job for AMA. Check their charter. PAMPA is a SIG that promotes PA and makes rules suggestions to AMA and provides a newsletter (Mag) that informs members what is happening within the organization.
I believe promotion of new flyers is an individual thing. Trouble is, where we used to be able to attract a few new flyers from the kids who would hang around to watch us fly, now most flying is done at remote sites, often unobtainable to kids.
Also, there are so many bad people around, some parents might not like you helping their children until they know you, etc.
We live in a whole different world.

Relying on the AMA is, in my opinion, one of the things that got us into the situation that we faced in the 8o's and still face today. Lost flying fields, lost flyers, noise restrictions, etc.

I recently spoke to the staff at the AMA about getting some support for my quest to find a local CL flying site. ANY help would have been a well appreciated godsend.

What did they say? "Download info from the AMA site and let us know how you make out." That translates to "Do it yourself." I got a warmer welcome than that from the local Parks Dept Director, who at leaste offered to consider the idea, though she had no available space to assign us.

I two weeks ago, I visited the "Local Hobby Shop" (RC only "ARF spoken here!) and talked to the owner about the potential sites that I was looking into and hoping for a few leads. Guess what? The sites that I was pitching for were all sites that the RC crowd has been pitching for for YEARS.

When I proposed that we work together, I was told that the RC flyers did'nt want CL guys around because our planes are too noisy and would cause "problems with surrounding residents"! (Can you beleive that?!) He further suggested that I check with the local CL combat flyers "cause prehaps we could fly with them. Outsiders see CL as a group of people who fly controline planes. We see ourselves as these little SIGS.

If we are going to "Grow Controline" (Which I'd translate more realisticly to: "Maintain Controline"!) were going to have to do it ourselves. Unfortunately, most stunt flyers, including those who's clubs are facing the possible loss of thier fields, have not awakened to the idea of "Enlightened self-concern".

I wonder...

If PAMPA and it's menbers members don't see these issues as problems that threaten the heart of our SIG and further, don't or wont do the work necessary to maintain our part of this wonderful hobby by supproting the whole, then who will? Who will have more enthusiasm, more expertise and more to gain (Or lose!) than we do?

There may be a handfull of local CL friendly sites still in existance in America and a 'huge' 1800 members of PAMPA world-wide but if you look at the big picture, we're in trouble no matter how many kits and engines us 50+ year old guys buy, build and fly.

Remember, we're approaching the time wherein our members will start dying in increasing numbers, with age being the underlying factor.

Not only do we need STUNT FLYERS, I think that we need every CL interested flyer we can get. We'll either all pull together or we'll all continue to fall apart.

BIGS

PS: About a decade ago, I spoke to one of the "cottage industry" kit makers who at the time, advertised in SN. I asked him who had purchased most of the hundreds of kits that he had sold. He said that very few of them went to PAMPA members. Most had gone out to people that no one had ever heard of, flying in the hinterlands somewhere.

PSS: You will note that I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CHANGING THE STATED PURPOSE OF PAMPA! Thats a subject for another thread entirely.

Still....

I do think that if we are not willing to recognize and officialy support the non-competition and non-stunt contigents. (And maybe even non-PAMPA folks.) we will be guilty not of neglect but of institutional suicide.

BIGS (Again.)

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."