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Saito Prop Observation/Question/Help!

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EricV · Nov 21, 2004 07:09 PM

#0 source
This is as much an observation of the Saito 56 behavior as it is a question about props and a plea for help from those then went before me…

Since I finished my Legacy, I’ve been running 1 prop and only 1 prop. At our club stunt contest last month it took 3rd place. I’m on about flight number 35 as of this afternoon.

This prop works fairly well, so I left it alone until I could get other minor adjustments out of the way first. I also didn’t want to over load the engine, since it only had minimal break in time, the prop has been a “stock” Zinger 12x5 wood, or as some people say, a prop kit. The plane flies fine with this prop, if not a little fast, but great line tension every where. I also noticed a small tendency to wind up in the wind and hit its own wake a lot, even with a light breeze. Another oddity is the way the engine shut off, with several laps of at least a dozen false stops and restarts, more on this later. The engine is really running like a clock now, and fuel economy has come way up, needing only about 4 ounces to do the pattern with time to spare.

So, time to play with props...

I’ve ordered a Bolly 13x4.5 as it is noted elsewhere as a winning combo. But while waiting for the prop to arrive I had decided to try re-working a larger wood Zinger 13x5 prop to a reasonable and less clunky prop, using an old Rev-Up as a model for cleaning it up. I thinned down the trailing edge and took off the blunt square leading edge, plus took off the square tips and swept them back in a clean radius while thinning down the prop as much as I dared with wood to the tips.

After one flight on the 12x5 today, I then flew the reworked 13x5 Zinger. It loaded up the motor noticeably at the same needle setting on the ground. I turned the needle in to see if it had any more to give, but nope, the needle had to be backed off a ¼ turn instead so there was some “reserve” rpm left in the motor. I also noticed the motor became less responsive to the needle on the ground, more flat response. In the air, the plane flew great, the prop acting as a regulator on down legs of maneuvers. No wind up at all but maybe a hair too slow. I may do up another one of these 13x5 Zingers and trim ¼” off it, then compare results. Hitting it's wake was gone as well. Is this really due to the change I made in the prop tips or am I imagining it? I always though wing tip vorteces were the worst offender?

Oh, and the “more on this later” part… The engine shut down MUCH cleaner, with only 2 false stops, and no major speed up in lap times at the end. I guess this is attributed to the motor being run closer to peak and the way in which it draws fuel when loaded????

Any and all input will be appreciated on all aspects of this subject. I find all of this fascinating, and really dig learning what this combo is capable of. Also, any help on how to run the Bolly, or how it will compare to my current experiences? I actually have the Bolly now, but didn’t have a spinner nut/adapter to mount the setup today, dang it! (I'm not hand starting no 4-stroke with a Bolly triple razor!) Will pick one up this week to try next time.

Eric Viglione

godzilla · Nov 21, 2004 08:45 PM

#1 source
You might try the new Zinger Pro, it appears to be a superior version of the Zinger. It is much closer to an old Rev-Up, maybe better in some ways. Some folks around here have reported very good tendancies from the new Pro.

http://www.zingerpropeller.com/pro-zinger.htm

If you go the thinner bladed Zinger Pro you should be able to run the 13" two blade without strain. Doug was running a 14" two blade Eather on his Saito 56 and it pulled it pretty darn good. You might pick up a Pro 14-5 and try it. You can trim it down at the tips to tune the load.

You also might look at the Brodak Y&O 13 x 5 or 14 x 5. It is very light and super stiff and I would think it would be somewhat slower.

The City Smasher

EricV · Nov 22, 2004 08:59 PM

#2 source
Thanks Brad, I actually own a couple of the Zinger Pro's and they are not bad looking props, but even though the shape seems more appropriate, they are still in need of a fair amount of thinning down to come close to the Rev-up. Very rigid prop. With a little rework, if it stays rigid, could be very good. I'll have the Bolly 3 blade ready to test for this weekend.

Eric V

V12 · Nov 23, 2004 08:22 AM

#3 source
Eric, Brad. A few months back, Dee Rice mentioned some excellent results that he was having with APC propellers on his SAITO .40. Since I had never run one on a 4S engine, I decided to give them a try.
I experimented with a number of different sizes on three OS Surpass .26s, a SAITO .30, a SAITO .40 and an ENYA .53.
I do not have time to go into long details but I can say that every APC prop was a vast improvememnt over all previous props used - Zinger, Master Airscrew, Top-Flite and Rev-Up.
Although I did not try one one the SAITO .56, the ENYA .53 really came alive. All I had to try on it was a 13-6 APC on the test plane - Joe Adamusko's Polaris. Originally designed around an ST .60, the plane weighed 80 ounces with the .53. With the 13-6, the plane took off like a rocket and flew so fast that it was a bit scary to manuever - lap times were around 4 seconds.
I just recieved some 12-4 and 13-4 APCs so I will hopefully report on them next Monday.
I do not have any carbon fiber props to try.
Bob Z.

Randy Powell · Nov 23, 2004 11:49 AM

#4 source
Pat Johnston was using an APC 12.25x3.75 on his Saito 56. He seemed happy with it. He also used a 13x4W that was cut down about a 1/4 inch on calm days. Also worked well.

SteveMoon · Nov 24, 2004 04:16 PM

#5 source
Eric V: I have used a Bolly 13 x 6 prop for the last two years on my Saito 56. For me, this is THE prop. I have tried several others, but always end up going back to the 13 x 6 Bolly. I run my motor at a lower RPM; anywhere from 8600 to 9400. This is more in line with the power range of the Saito motors. I did sand the leading edge of the latest Bolly prop to get a nice, sharp edge. This can increase rpm 200 - 400 without turning the motor up.

There is an excellent article written by Dave Gierke in a recent (Oct or Nov) edition of Model Airplane News about Saito motors. He talks aobut many things, including where the maximum torque and power ranges are for these motors.

Steve

EricV · Nov 25, 2004 06:24 AM

#6 source
Thanks for the info guys! Still curious, do you notice that the more you load the engine, the cleaner the shut down?

I'm running the clunk on muffler pressure. With the 12x5 it would give me a ton of flase stops and re starts, but with the 13x5 it gave me just a couple of burps then shut down clean.

Steve: Is that 13x6 Bolly you are running a 2 or 3 blade? Is it the "N" series, for narrow blade? I have a 12.25x6.25 Bolly 3 blade "N" which I am tempted to try for the fun of it. What do you think?

The other thing I wanted to mention is that I am a little afraid to load the motor to any extreams, since I had done this once on a previous 4-stroke plane and even though running on that jagged edge produced a super smooth and controlled engine run, it also made flame outs more possible and very unpredictable. (I lost the plane due to this, major bummer , so now I'm pretty gun shy) Any thoughts on this? And on how to avoid the dreaded 4-stroke flame out? My procedure is to make sure I back the needle off a couple hundred rpm from whatever peak is for a given prop combo. Anything other/different I should be doing?

Thanks again,
Eric V.

godzilla · Nov 25, 2004 07:51 AM

#7 source
>Eric V: I have used a Bolly 13 x 6 prop for the last two
>years on my Saito 56. For me, this is THE prop.

Oh ya, the Bolly 13-6.

The City Smasher