Stuka Stunt Control Line Forum
Archive, 2000–2021 · recovered from the Internet Archive
Forums › Stuka Stunt Main Forum

Balsa Allergies and Alternative Materials

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 14 of 14 known posts recovered

ed n · Dec 02, 2004 01:02 PM

#0 source
When I was building actively, I was increasingly bothered by
balsa dust, despite wearing a dust mask, until I stopped building
about 2 years ago because it became so unpleasant. I continued
flying until everything I had was damaged beyond repair, that was
in July 2003. Since then I have been inactive, sold my unbuilt kits,
and pursued an amateur radio license.

Recently, I got the urge to build (and fly) again. I got a Sig
Akromaster kit. When I started working on it, the effects of balsa
started immediately, even though I now use a NIOSH/CE approved dust
mask. I start sneezing, my throat feels scratchy, and my sinuses
swell up & I have to use a Oxymetalozine nasal spray just to breathe.
Even just walking by the balsa section in the local hobby shop will
start me sneezing. The effects seem to increase with exposure.

In addition, over the past 2 years I was getting increasingly
frequent & severe migraines. I now take Inderal daily which got
it under control. When I started building the Akromaster, the severe
migraines returned. It could be CA, and I use aliphatic glue as
much as possible. When I use CA, I open a window and have a fan
blowing across the area. Nevertheless, my sinuses swell up badly.

So this project has bogged down, I have to work one evening then
take a few days off to recover. I store all the parts in a plastic bag
when not working to minimize exposure. And dope finishes are out of
the question, I finished using Ultracote and water based polyurethane
(Nelson Hobby). Solvents are a sure severe migraine trigger for me.

I have really reached an impasse. My only choice to continue in this
hobby are balsa alternatives, or ARFs. I am limited to the Flite
Streak & Nobler ARF, or the Ukey 35; the Brodak Cardinal & Oriental
won't fit in my (small) car. So I am looking at alternative
materials. Not like the high-tech molded composite stuff like Windy
uses; but simple, cheap, and readily available things. Basswood, for
instance, does not bother me. Would substituting thinner basswood
work without sacrificing strength and incurring too much weight?
Another idea I have been considering is lite-ply for wing ribs, like
on the Skyray 35. I have also looked at the website of the guy who
builds entirely with cardboard. Coroplast is another material which
has occured to me. Also foam wings. However, if the foam wing is
cored doesn't it still need to be sheeted in balsa? Can anyone tell
me the pros & cons of the above materials, or suggest any others?

Thanks in advance.

Igor Burger · Dec 02, 2004 01:16 PM

#1 source
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-04 AT 01:17 PM (CST)
 
I did a R/C model from plastic homogenous polystyrene foam sold in sheets. The main frame is doable in one evening, but I have no idea what it does in fuel. But electric version could be usefull. Shall I uploade some shots from building? Pictures are not best quality but idea is clear.

on http://www.rcmodely.sk/index.php

may be this will work:

http://www.rcmodely.sk/zobrazclanok.php?id=175

yes, it does, so do you want them in better quality?

tomB · Dec 02, 2004 01:40 PM

#2 source
Personally, as someone who has had allergies and severe asthma all of my life, I think you need the care of a Doctor. It needs to be an allergy specialist, not a GP. As you're probably aware, you can actually die in a hospital emergency room when every test in the world shows up negative. Only an Allergist knows for sure.

If you can get your sensitivity under control with balsa, you might make it. Monokote can alleviate the rest of it. Synthetics are more of a problem in the long run. The sanded foam of a typical wing is pretty bad stuff. The issue is usually one of "tipping." Resistance may be tolerable in your normal life with a few over-the-counter drugs to relieve the symptoms. Yet, a small exposure to balsa dust may be enough to cause a huge reaction, because you have no reserve tolerance.

Regular anti-histamine (Allegra, Claritin, Zyrtec) can be an important component in building a reserve of tolerance. Allergy shots are intended to de-sensitize, and they work, too - but you won't find an Allergist that will include balsa dust. Even so, if you can build up to a level where the normal allergens are very well controlled in your body, you may be able to tolerate short bursts of allergens like the balsa dust.

Always take a shower immediately after exposure - especially your hair (if you still have some). If you are allergic to regular pollens as well, just sleeping on your pillow at night will expose you to enough to start that "tipping" - simply from the pollen collected in your hair during the day. Open windows are forbidden, which is another reason to stay away from the synthetics.

An Allergist will test you for various run-of-the-mill substances that may likely expose you. (grass and tree pollens, dust mites, animal hair, mold, and roach parts) They can also start the regimen of anti-histamine, and recommend whether you would benefit from shots. None of this is fun, but it works.

I cannot function without daily anti-histamines, and I take allergy shots as well. On a good day, I can pet my dog, eat eggs, drink milk, vacuum the house, cut the grass, and sand balsa wood without much trouble. (I take a shower after the sanding and grass cutting.) Yet, I am allergic to every one of those things - assuming mites live in balsa, which they probably do.

Tom B

ed n · Dec 02, 2004 02:01 PM

#3 source
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-04 AT 03:39 PM (CST)
 
>I think you need the care of a Doctor. It needs to be an
>allergy specialist...

I've seen plenty of doctors. An allergist, neurologist, &
an ear nose & throat specialist (for sinus problems).
I've had enough CT scans for several lifetimes too.
I do have several anti-histamines which I take.

***********************************************
>http://www.rcmodely.sk/zobrazclanok.php?id=175
>yes, it does, so do you want them in better quality?

Thanks, those shots are fine.

jaco · Dec 02, 2004 03:04 PM

#4 source
Hi Ed,


Not all foam wings need balsa sheeting.
Phil Cartier of http://home.earthlink.net/~philcartier/
uses plastic film covering over the wings and polyurethane
glues. I've used water based poly coating to cover the foam wings.
and then cover with monokote or what Phil supplies in his kits.
I've built a few like the Gotcha Streak and Li'L Hacker.
The wood is lite ply and lots of foam. That might be a new start
for you.

Paul Heimgaertner

tomB · Dec 02, 2004 04:48 PM

#7 source
>>I think you need the care of a Doctor. It needs to be an
>>allergy specialist...
>
>I've seen plenty of doctors. An allergist, neurologist, &
>an ear nose & throat specialist (for sinus problems).
>I've had enough CT scans for several lifetimes too.
>I do have several anti-histamines which I take.
>

Several? That may be causing your headaches. Seriously, you may have problems unrelated to balsa wood. The therapy I described is not an immediate panacea. It may take years. Here's wishing you find good health and get well. It can be a lousy way to live otherwise.

Tom B

LeagueCityRalph · Dec 02, 2004 04:09 PM

#5 source
Hi Ed,
First of all, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with using available ARFs. And if a NoblerARF will fit in your car, an Oriental should, too; they are practically identical in planform - Nobler is 50" span and Oriental is 55". I used to get a TF Tutor into a VW Scirocco. It required some care, but it was doable.

Can you work with Spruce without your allergies kicking in? It's considerably lighter than Basswood, and has virtually the same strength. How about Poplar; also lighter than Bass? Does foam (or related) cause problems? Many people have problems with CyA glues; stick with Elmer's or (very carefully; wear latex or vinyl gloves) with epoxies of polyurethane glue.

As another alternative, there are several highly-skilled builders who will (for a price) build and finish whatever plane you wish. See:

www.tomsbuildingservice.biz
http://www.builtrightflyright.com/index2B.htm
http://www.wannafly.com/planes/rclinks.htm
http://www.thuntek.net/pcmodels/

Or do a google search on +"model airplane" +"building service" - - include the "+" signs and the quotes.

Good luck,

Ralph Wenzel

ed n · Dec 02, 2004 04:34 PM

#6 source
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-04 AT 04:41 PM (CST)
 
>First of all, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with using
>available ARFs. And if a NoblerARF will fit in your car, an Oriental
>should...

I should have clarified - I have nothing against ARFs, the
choice is limited, that's all I meant. Not like RC.

50" wingspan is the largest which will fit in my back
seat. I measured. I damaged the wing of a Tanager(52") trying
to get it into my trunk.


>Can you work with Spruce without your allergies kicking in?

No problem for me. Spruce, Maple, Basswood, Birch, Oak, etc.
don't bother me. Just Balsa.

I also had looked at the building services. I was put off
by the cost. I should explain, I'm not *that* serious about
the hobby. I don't compete. For the cost of having a plane
built for me, I'd spend the money on something else instead,
like an SWR meter or antenna tuner.

faif2d · Dec 02, 2004 08:35 PM

#8 source
The last plane I built for a VSC old timer was a 1950 Polish design. After translation I saw that they had used mostly bass in the construction along with pine spars. I guess back then balsa was not available in their country. Anyway I thought I would try to make the plane using the materials called out on the plans. There was NO balsa used in the construction. The ribs were 1/32 bass and the fuselage was 1/16 bass sheeting with birch ply bulkheads. The plane came out slightly heavier but not badly, and the plane flew very well. If I did it over again the only thing I would do differently would be to cut some lightening holes in the stab and elevator before the tissue covering as the plane came out slightly tail heavy even with a Russian diesel in the nose.

I used to like painting with dope but now I can't remember why. Steve Fauble

Brett Buck · Dec 02, 2004 11:19 PM

#9 source

>So this project has bogged down, I have to work one evening
>then
>take a few days off to recover.

I really don't know how to help. But I have a lesser version of the same problem. I get contact dermatitis on the insides of both arms whenever I get balsa dust on my skin. It's not the end of the world, but it's unpleasant. I've got a pretty bad rash from it right now (having spent my Thanksgiving time off building a Walter Umland Shark 15 kit).

Note that wearing the mask may not be helping all that much. If you are having a real anaphylactic reaction, you don't have to breath it in to get the effects. Just contact alone can cause it.

I don't know how to avoid balsa completely and still have decent results. Composites are a possibility, but to do that right involves using materials that can be far more reactive than balsa dust.

Brett

JTH · Dec 03, 2004 01:02 AM

#10 source
Depron (http://www.depronusa.com/) is very popular with the electric RC flyers for smaller planes. Then make reinforcements from other wood and composites. And you can use the composites with water based polyuretane (did i get this right?), so you don't need the epoxy.

Regs, Jyrki

Cfelton · Jan 22, 2005 10:59 AM

#11 source
Ed,
Sorry to hear about the allergies. but I do have a suggestion which may help you and that is to use 1/8" corrugated cardboard as the primary building material. The attached photo shows my 60" wingspan P51 control line model which contains only a few balsa strips and some plywood for the motor and landing gear mounts. But even these balsa parts could be eliminated. Also, the best glue to use for cardboard is basic water based glue such as Elmers which probably wouldn't pose a problem. Both RC & CL planes can be built using cardboard. To see photos of RC & CL designs and construction techniques, go to my website at
http://home.earthlink.net/~charlesfelton
which will explain my interest in cardboard airplanes. I hope this will help to keep you flying. Be glad to answer any questions you may have.
Regards, Chuck Felton

Chuck Felton

wcrane · Jan 22, 2005 11:44 AM

#12 source
I'd go with the ARF solution for the meantime, let someone else put the things together if you can.

Are you a modeler or just a CL purist? RC and the new foam and plastic airplanes may be your way to continue enjoying the hobby of flying model airplanes. I can show you how to build SPAD's and they are a whole bunch of cheap fun. AND they build a whole bunch like the cardboard plane in the message just above this one.

Plenty of alternatives but do stay away from the balsa, it's only a hobby and losing a person during any phase of it is a tragedy.

Well, couple years ago I would have paid to get hit by lightening during a Foxberg race, it would have been a nice way to go.

From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
William Crane
AMA 6733

rjb · Jan 22, 2005 07:56 PM

#13 source
The Brodak Oriental ARF is very easily done as a takapart like an RC plane is done. Lateral loads are all transfered to the fuselage by a second layer of center sheeting on the top of the wing that fits snugly to the sides of the fuselage. The engine doubler extends aft of the wing and there are bulkheads and top and bottom stringers in the entire tail section so its strong enough. With the second layer of center sheeting the load issues are all handled. All you have to do is use one wing bolt front, one aft to hold the fuse to the wing and you are done. Less than one ounce additional weight.

The elevator pushrod is made releaseable by a removeable keeper at the flap and you are there.

rjb