Here is a lesson to be learned.

Here is a lesson to be learned. I listed an item for sale on ebay starting price $9.99. For 5 days there were 15 people watching the auction but no one bidding. The bid was $36.00 at the end of the 5th day. 2 minutes before the auction ended people started bidding. I refreshed every 2 seconds and watched. People faught over the item like a bunch of crazies. The price went up and up and up. The auction ended and the final bid price was $81.00. I received 3 emails after the auction from people that were MAD because they DID NOT WIN. All I can say is, "it is their own stupid fault." The TIGHT WADS are the people that set and wait until the last second thinking they will bid at the last second and beat someone out of the item. If you want an item then bid "ONCE" and make it count and if someone else wins, "SO WHAT," there will always be another auction.

Here is one of the emails that I received.

I missed it by seconds. Darn. If you have any troubles with buyer. I'll give $100. Kathy McKay, Almira, WA

Here is the lesson to be learned. If she had bid $100.00 on her FIRST BID then she would have probably won the auction at $82.00.

I had a truck load of stuff to get rid of on ebay then after listing a few items I decided it was too much trouble. The Salvation Army came and got it all Thrusday. I don't care about the stuff or the money I just want this stuff out of here.

Now I am sure someone will say you just want to make more money on the auctions. Not true thats why I called the Salvation Army.

The point I am trying to make is, decide how much your willing to pay and bid that amount. Forget the auction! Life is too short to spend it glued to the computer waiting for the last 2 minutes of the auction. If you win, GREAT. If you loose then bid on another auction. You will fine you have more time to go FLYING and more time to BUILD.

I had a great time flying today until it started to rain.

I thought this was a control line forum, not e-bay ettiquette.

I like Ebay as it gives something else to do other than play games while the glue or paint is drying. I too have bid on items with a price I thought was too high just to get over bid in the last seconds. Some of the things I have sold have not made sense to me on the thinking of some of these people. I had one guy offer me an amount if I would end the auction early. I told him to bid his amount and take his chances. Of course he lucked out, as he won the item.

Something I have noticed, is that if someone gets a good price on an item, then there are several of the same item listed. One case was a shiney case "Fox 35". The first one went well over a hundred dollars. They know something I don't know. Happy Holidays from the -DOC Holliday

>Here is one of the emails that I received.
>
>I missed it by seconds. Darn. If you have any troubles with
>buyer. I'll give $100. Kathy McKay, Almira, WA
>
>Here is the lesson to be learned. If she had bid $100.00 on
>her FIRST BID then she would have probably won the auction
>at $82.00.
>Gary Weaver

Gary, you must know something about eBay that I don't. If Kathy McKay bids $100 early in the auction, how does she get the prize for $82? The logic escapes me. And I know where Almira is, so don't try to pull any tricks. Steve

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-04 AT 05:30 PM (CST)
 
>
>Gary, you must know something about eBay that I don't. If
>Kathy McKay bids $100 early in the auction, how does she get
>the prize for $82? The logic escapes me. And I know where
>Almira is, so don't try to pull any tricks. Steve
>
>http://www.nwskyraiders.com/index.html

The bid only sets a not-to-exceed maximum. Assuming you have a winning bid, your price is only a minimum increment above the next highest bidder, regardless of what you bid. Entering a high bid early can discourage a feeding frenzy that artificially inflates the price at the end. That's because prospective bidders will get frustrated trying to exceed an unknown bid amount that may be well beyond the current price.

If she bid the $100 in the last 5 seconds in the auction she still would have won.

It makes no difference when you place your bid as long as your bid is the highest amount when the auction ends.

Her logic was to wait until the last minute in order to avoid a bidding war early in the auction. (they try and keep the price low and rely on their DSL connection to win)

She was a snipper and missed her target.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-04 AT 07:55 PM (CST)
 
Actually, just my observation, but the chances are great that a bid of $100 in the last few minutes would not beat someone already putting up $82. The psychology of the moment often makes people bid more than usual.

Refraining from a late bid is not necessarily an attempt to avoid a bidding war. As a keen consumer, you will always want the best price, not the price you're willing to pay. An early bid will expose you to more liability and you can't take it back. It can get complicated: there may be many items you want. Yet, you may not be able to afford bidding a fair price for everything.

Sometimes you just lose.

She shouldn't have sent him the e-mail, though. It doesn't help anybody to make an offer after the fact.

>Actually, just my observation, but the chances are great
>that a bid of $100 in the last few minutes would not
>beat someone already putting up $82. The psychology of the
>moment often makes people bid more than usual.
>
>Refraining from an early bid is not necessarily an attempt
>to avoid a bidding war. As a keen consumer, you will always
>want the best price, not the price you're willing to pay.
>An early bid will expose you to more liability and you can't
>take it back. It can get complicated: there may be many
>items you want. Yet, you may not be able to afford bidding
>a fair price for everything.
>
>Sometimes you just lose.
>
>She shouldn't have sent him the e-mail, though. It doesn't
>help anybody to make an offer after the fact.

I don't follow? How are the chances of winning an auction with a low bid greater than with a high bid?
I'd like to bid low on a few things early and win them.

>
>I don't follow? How are the chances of winning an auction
>with a low bid greater than with a high bid?
>I'd like to bid low on a few things early and win them.
>
>
>Regards,
> John Jolley
>

senior moment - should be "late" not "early" - edited to correct, thanks.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-04 AT 08:31 PM (CST)
 
I think there are a lot of people that don't completely understand how ebay works.

About 3 years ago I found an auction for this Carl Goldberg P-40 Model Airplane Kit with 2 days left on the auction. I had no idea what the kit was worth but I knew I was willing to pay a good price to win so I placed my bid of $500.00. A few days later the auction ended and I won. I don't recall how much I paid for the kit it was less than $100.00. I used the kit to draw plans then relisted the kit for sale on ebay about a year later. I listed the kit for the exact price that I paid not trying to make a profit I only wanted to get my money back. It was time for someone else to have the kit. The kit sold for about $5.00 more than I originally paid. Considering postage and insurance I probably lost about $3.00 in the deal.

If Kathy had placed a $100.00 bid it would not make any difference if she placed the bid the 1st day of the auction of the last 10 minutes of the auction. If no one else bids higher than $81.00 she will win the auction at $82.00.

Just for fun I once bid $100.00 on an auction 50 cents at a time up to $25.00 then $1.00 at a time up to $100.00. The auction showed there were over 100 bids but the actual price on the auction was only $5.00. I won the auction at about $30.00.

Here is a pic of the kit that I bought and sold on ebay.

>I think there are a lot of people that don't completely
>understand how ebay works.
>
>About 3 years ago I found an auction for this Carl Goldberg
>P-40 Model Airplane Kit with 2 days left on the auction. I
>had no idea what the kit was worth but I knew I was willing
>to pay a good price to win so I placed my bid of $500.00.

I was going to do the same thing but I was only going to bid $475....
"That would have hurt"

The best that you can do is to bid the maximum amount that your willing to pay for the item in the last 15 seconds of the auction.

Just wondering if you would have paid $475.00 for a Goldberg kit? (smiles)

>
>Just wondering if you would have paid $475.00 for a Goldberg
>kit? (smiles)
>
>Regards,
> John Jolley

I hope there is no one on ebay as crazy as ME.

>Just wondering if you would have paid $475.00 for a Goldberg
>kit? (smiles)

Sometimes I get the idea that sellers are using SHILLS to drive up the price. Theoretically they may end up "winning" once in a while, in which case the seller loses his commission, but in the long run they make money.

That would explain the occasional extreme prices.

They do, indeed. Twice I have sat in a maintenance shop and watched the crews bidding on each others stuff to drive the prices up.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-04 AT 03:14 PM (CST)
 
>They do, indeed. Twice I have sat in a maintenance shop and
>watched the crews bidding on each others stuff to drive the
>prices up.

I got the idea from Al Taubman, a multi-billionaire, the richest man in Michigan.

Al's idea of charity is donating an entire cancer center to the University of Michigan.

Al recently did a year in Federal prison for the same sort of thing auction manipulation at Christy's and Sorbey's.

Yes that is how Scott Riese won a mint Cox early P40 warhawk with box. This plane is near perfect. I won't say what he bid but he bid one price and only once. The plane was worth twice what he bid.

Ah, Kathy McKay would have to use the option where eBay bids for her, up to her $100 limit. That's not what Gary said. If that option is taken, does eBay bid up each time a bid placed, or wait until the last second? The first seems inflationary, the second like "inside sniping"? Steve

>The bid only sets a not-to-exceed maximum. Assuming you
>have a winning bid, your price is only a minimum increment
>above the next highest bidder, regardless of what you bid.
>Entering a high bid early can discourage a feeding frenzy
>that artificially inflates the price at the end. That's
>because prospective bidders will get frustrated trying to
>exceed an unknown bid amount that may be well beyond the
>current price.

Say you bid $100 for someting. Say the Item has a $10 bid. Then Ebay will bid $10.50 (or whatever the increment is)for you. Say someone bids $30. They are immediately told they are outbid and that the current bid (you) is $30.50. And so on. So I bid it and forget it.

I will often put in a modest bid on something interesting, which I don't care if I get, just to make some action for the seller. I always, if I am quick enough, bid $52 for ST G20-15 diesels, for example. I've gotten two and not gotten maybe fifteen. If I really want something, I will put in a reasonable high bid, how much it is worth to me. If someone else needs it worse than I do, then they should have it, don't you think?

It is a certain amount of effort to sell on ebay, and not always profitable. But it's something to do while the dope is drying.

Talking ebay is more fun than talking PAMPA politics!

"Talking ebay is more fun than talking PAMPA politics!"

AMEN ! ! !

Straighten up and fly right"
Rog

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-04 AT 04:38 AM (CST)
 
Well, there are reasons for sandbagging. If Kathy really wanted the item and bid $200 for it, and someone else wanted the item and decided to put down $300 for it, she'd still lose. If you get outbid early, you've got more time to convince yourself you really do want the item, and you'll then be willing to put down more money for it. And this is a good way to end up paying more than you wanted to.

I've learned that you can sometimes get it for much less if you do wait until the last minute, and then put down what you'd consider your maximum. If it's more than anyone else was willing to pay for it, then you get it. If not, someone else does. If I see a feeding frenzy taking place, I avoid the auction, unless it's something I really, really want (and an auction is a bad place for this sort of thing, especially if there's someone else who feels the same way).

Now, if you're SELLING an item, there are things you really do have to avoid if you want top price. One is listing more than one of the same item at a time (or a few if you have a huge number of them). Spread the auctions out over a few weeks rather than put them all on at once. Avoid ending auctions on Saturday or Sunday mornings, US time zones. Avoid also dinner time, and early AM. Sunday PM is OK. You want the auction to end when there are tons of people online. I was always looking for auctions that ended Saturday morning - I knew I'd get a bargain. My best bargain was a camera lens where the auction ended around 7:30pm on the 4th of July!

Of course one of the problems is that one persons early morning is someone elses early evening.

Regards

Mike

Isky,

You've described a very good strategy with e-bay. I would add that sometimes I will place early bids - but only for a minimum amount. I may be undecided about buying it. That may also be the case with everyone else - and you can end up winning it with a very good price. Meanwhile, it's focused in your e-bay account, and you can track whether anyone else outbids you, then decide whether you want to play at the end.

As you say, sometimes the auctions end at odd times, and you may not be around to check. (Assuming it's an item you're not watching closely.)

>Isky,
>
>You've described a very good strategy with e-bay. I would
>add that sometimes I will place early bids - but only for a
>minimum amount. I may be undecided about buying it. That
>may also be the case with everyone else - and you can end up
>winning it with a very good price. Meanwhile, it's focused
>in your e-bay account, and you can track whether anyone else
>outbids you, then decide whether you want to play at the
>end.
>
>As you say, sometimes the auctions end at odd times, and you
>may not be around to check. (Assuming it's an item you're
>not watching closely.)

Everyone seems to have their strategy on how to bid on ebay. I sometimes do the same thing you mentioned. I bid the minumum amount because I am not really sure I want the item. Once I bid it puts the item on my bidding list and I can keep an eye on it. If I decide to bid I can. I recently built a Twister and I bid $30.00 on 7 different Sig Twister kits, I lost all the auctions. $30.00 is all I was willing to pay because I only wanted the wing. I had NO use for the rest of the kit. Sence a new kit is $47.00 + $8.50 postage about $60.00 total I think that is too much for just the wing. I scratch built the airplane for about $10.00 worth of balsa. I bid $30.00 of 16 different .049 black widows engines and losts them all. They are selling for $40.00 and up on ebay. A brand NEW engine is $35.00 + postage. I don't understand why people are paying more than new price for an engine on ebay. There are several things on ebay that I bid on every day wheather I need them or not. There are certain items that I will bid $25.00 on every auction I see. I lost about 50 auctions in November and won only 1 auction. I don't need this item but if I crash my airplane I might need another one it is good to have several extras. I decide my maximum bid and if I loose the auction, there will always be another auction. I won't pay more than new price for a used item if I need it that bad I will buy it new. I don't place extremely high bids any more I only bid the amount I am actually willing to pay.

>I recently
>built a Twister and I bid $30.00 on 7 different Sig Twister
>kits, I lost all the auctions. $30.00 is all I was willing
>to pay because I only wanted the wing. I had NO use for the
>rest of the kit.

Unless Sig has changed, call them up and get just a "wing kit" for the Twister.

>I bid $30.00 of 16 different .049 black widows
>engines and losts them all. They are selling for $40.00 and
>up on ebay. A brand NEW engine is $35.00 + postage. I
>don't understand why people are paying more than new price
>for an engine on ebay. I won't pay more than new
>price for a used item if I need it that bad I will buy it
>new.

The "New" Black Widow isn't close to the old ones. Could be the reason that people want the old model engine.

>Gary Weaver

Bill <><

Tom,

The last two autions I've won were the results of doing exactly what you mention. I was out of space for "Watching" items, so I put in a minimum bid that I knew would be beaten. I was wrong, but I now own an very nice OS Max FP .40 for about $14.00 delivered and some EZ-Justs, some large line reels and six sets of lines, four of which are new and usable, for just a bit less than $16.00. I really didn't need or want these items, but I was interested in their final sales price. I also was more than willing to pay what I bid for them.

Sometimes one gets lucky, I guess!

On the other hand, there were two sellers who listed plans this week in which I had an interest. Their descriptions left out some information that I considered crucial before bidding. I could not get a straight answer to either of my questions to those separate sellers. Did anyone else note the TravelAir plans? I wanted to see if this was the plan for Jim Hunt's OTS legal biplane, as I would like to have that plan. There was a Chipmunk plan that appeared to be a variant of the Van Loo-Sig-Stott series that I don't have already. That seller was totally non-responsive. For that one, I was even willing to violate my loose rule about not bidding for items for which I could not pay withPayPal. If I'm going to spend my hard earned bucks for an item, I expect a little bit of consideration. Sellers either need to put important information in their listings or be willing to respond promptly and as correctly as possible to qeries about their items. BTW, TTBOMK, neither of the two items sold. I wonder if there's a lesson in that?

We never put anything on ebay when we are going to be out of town and unavailable to answer questions.

Ebay is a great source of information. It is worth crusing just to look at the pictures, even if you have no interest in buying or selling.

Jim

There was a Chipmunk plan that appeared to be a
>variant of the Van Loo-Sig-Stott series that I don't have
>already. That seller was totally non-responsive. For that
>one, I was even willing to violate my loose rule about not
>bidding for items for which I could not pay withPayPal. If
>I'm going to spend my hard earned bucks for an item, I
>expect a little bit of consideration. Sellers either need
>to put important information in their listings or be willing
>to respond promptly and as correctly as possible to qeries
>about their items. BTW, TTBOMK, neither of the two items
>sold. I wonder if there's a lesson in that?
>

I think that was my Son's auction. I set my Son up an account on ebay so he can sell plans. I have typing cramps so bad its killing me. I have been taking pain killers, antienflamatory stuff, aspirns, Aleve, etc. I am trying to say off the key board and stay off ebay. I think the Chipmunk plans you want was my sons auction. He did not check email all week he forgot his password on the new account. Are these the plans you were looking at ebay auction 5934096049.

Yep, Gary, those were the Chipmunk plans I was talking about. I knew the seller was related to you because he had his mailing address in the body of the listing, in the same manner as your eBay listings.

So Gary, I won't need your address for the T'bird Cheque, it was there all the time

Regards

Mike

Gary,

Looks like you are on a "snipe" hunt!

I love the thrill of that last second high bid just to blow the minds of other bidders... there is nothing I need or can't live without so it is all fun for me... I picked up a Torpedo 45 Greenhead for $30 (I bid $50) last week in the last 2 seconds of the auction! It is missing the NVA but it will clean up and be a fine engine.

Hey Old Sourdough, Do you recall the eBay sellers name who had the Chipmunk plans for sale? I would like to take a peek at that one... I have more plans than time at this point (who doesn't?)but you got my attention with the "variation" of the Chipmunk...

I have not looked real hard as we just had a series of financial disasters.... TV blew up... ditto microwave.... ditto the car....
You get the idea....
But a casual glance tells me that you can often get bargains just before Christmas, two or three years ago I got a beautiful K&B40 from Coachman, can't remember the price but it was very reasonable.
I also note there are a lot of very old engines at the moment....
Including a Morton M5, buy-it-now for $2500.

I gave up on ebay about 2 years ago because of this "snipeing". For all the time I put in bidding, snipeing, I could have got an extra job at McDonalds slinging hambergers and paid full price for the items I won. Or I could have built another stunt ship and practiced with it.
Happy Landings

If you want to enter a snipe bid, its a simple matter to buy one of the many inexpensive programs that will do this for you.

You can enter your maximum bid into the program, set the time for the computer to enter the bid and as long as your 'puter is on, the program will bid for you.

Mine is set to bid 20 seconds before the auction closes and has never failed. I don't allways WIN, because I may not have made the highest bid, but the program works fine.

Lots of eBayers use snipe programs. They are legal, fair and can save you both time and money.

BIGS

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

there are a couple of free sniping programs and you don't even have to be online or have your computer turned on to make them work

I use auctionstealer.com and another one is esnipe.com

It works fine and is easy to use.

Generally if I think the item is miss worded or somehow under represented I'll use the snipe program

if it is all correct or generally doesn't look like a guy is going to get a great deal but it will be market price I just bid my top price and move on

In the past two weeks I've bought three OS 35 FP's without the snipe tool and I don't think the tool would have made a difference in those cases

My Son had an ebay auction that ended at 9pm tonight Dec 21. There were 19 people watching the auction all week and NO bids. 2 minutes before the auction ended the Tight Wads starting bidding to see who could win. Starting bid was $500.00 and the auction ended at $635.00. One person bid 4 times increased his bid only about $15.00 each time then after the auction HE emailed my Son with and offer of $1000.00 if he would sell it to him.

All I can say is, if it was worth $1000.00 to him then he should have bid to win. His stratagy did not work.

I see there are 8 people watching the model airplane kit and it has 7 minutes left before it ends and only 1 bid. Wonder what will happen?

>My Son had an ebay auction that ended at 9pm tonight Dec 21.
> There were 19 people watching the auction all week and NO
>bids. 2 minutes before the auction ended the Tight Wads
>starting bidding to see who could win. Starting bid was
>$500.00 and the auction ended at $635.00. One person bid 4
>times increased his bid only about $15.00 each time then
>after the auction HE emailed my Son with and offer of
>$1000.00 if he would sell it to him.
>
>All I can say is, if it was worth $1000.00 to him then he
>should have bid to win. His stratagy did not work.
>
>I see there are 8 people watching the model airplane kit and
>it has 7 minutes left before it ends and only 1 bid. Wonder
>what will happen?
>
>Gary Weaver

I'm guilty of just watching auctions just to see what stuff will sell for.

We just moved our shop to a 33,000 square foot facility and the previous owners left a Yacht/boat gangway/davit behind. The guys chucked it in the dumpster. I pulled it out of the dumpster and did little more than clean it up a little with some Windex. All the parts were there so I snapped a few pictures and put it on Ebay with a starting bid of $300. It sold for $1425.00 and is going back to Italy were it was made.

One way to foul the last minute snipers is to set a reserve for what YOU want for the item. If it sells you win. If it doesn't you can offer it to the highest or second highest bidder. Ebay will allow you to relist the item at little or no charge if it doesn't sell.

There's stategy for BOTH the seller and the buyer(s).

Tight Wad, Sure I'll pay less for something that I want. Wouldn't you? If you put something up for auction that is worth hundreds of dollars more than your selling it for.....

You'll get the hang of it.
Regards,
John Jolley

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4511979630&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT