Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 18 of 18 known posts recovered
Scott(it's my first time)Riese
Scott Riese
I'm just a few steps ahead on a Klapinski Tempest. My second one with Brodak.
A couple of points. 4 coats of sanded clear may be a bit light as a base. You are basically sealing off the wood and covering so that the primer doesn't soak in. Clear is much lighter than the primer or color so build your seal up with clear underneath the primer and color and your smooth gloss on top with clear. Use just enough primer to give a smooth surface for the color.
In my experiance the Brodak primer sprays much better than it brushes, giving quick and even buildup with each spray coat. You should be sanding most of it back off, leaving the low spots filled and a minumum above that. On some surfaces, a hard flat block will work best since it will not drop into the low areas you're trying to fill. Based on weight, I'm sanding about 80% off. This is THE place to take extra time. Also, it's easy to blend in partial coats with the primer, spotting areas needing work, without having to redo the completed areas.
Personally, I use just enough color to fully cover. If the primer is right, 2 or 3 coats of sprayed color will be plenty (white over white at least). Be sure you have full coverage, then add trim.
When that's well dried (like weeks, not days), top it with sprayed clear, maybe 6 coats. Again when thoroughly dry, start sanding. Wet sand only from here. I like 600, 1200, then 2000 grits. After that you can use a silver polish or 3M has several high quality products for polishing clearcoat on newer cars. Ain't technology great!
I have an old Ronson Roto Shine electric shoe polisher. By thickening the pads and with care, I've been able to do most polishing with that! They use a 3" pad at fairly slow rpm and can be found in garage sales and thrift stores.
I've had really good luck with the Brodak dope. All I'm really doing is following his suggestions. You know: CHEAT! Read the directions.
Good luck,
Jeff W
Alan
Yes it's a filler....seems to work great. Takes some more time than others products.
I just don't want to make a mistake with an I-Beam
Scott Riese
In my experience, this is a prety hard primer, that takes plenty of elbow grease to sand. I would only apply one coat at a time and then wet sand carefully, using lots of lube.
In my estimation, the traditional dope/talc stuff is superior. It's softer, fills better and sands faster. Definately a plus over open bays!
People who have used the zinc sterate from Randyl ike that stuff a lot too.
Let us know what you think.
BIGS
PS: Jeff is right. Four coats of sanded clear might not be enough of a base, (presuming that youre filling over bare wood.) If the wood is already doped and silkspaned (And it should be!), four coats of well-applied and sanded clear should be enough.
Most of the dope is getting sanded off anyway.
" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."
Anthony de Saint-Exupery
I don't know. Dope, itself, is not a good filler. I totally agree that you should not simply paint dope over bare wood. It should be silkspanned. That said, the silkspan does not need a lot of dope over or under it. I have had old finishes that were beautiful where I was able to peel the silkspan off to do a repair. This was the old brittle dope. But it was very lightly stuck down. Still, the finish was fine. We don't need tons of dope under the silkspan, nor do we want tons of it over it.
The silkspan will follow the grain. And dope, by itself, is a very poor filler. Even if you loaded it up to a point that you got a glassy finish, it would eventually cure to a point where the grain would reappear. So if we use too much clear build up beneath the filler coat, we may be working against ourselves. So use just enough clear to seal. Then start with filler.
One thing about filler coats--be it Brodak filler, dope and talc, whatever--the base is still clear dope with the filler agent added. So when you apply it, and if it soaks in, what will soak in is only the clear base as the filler agent will be too coarse to penetrate. The main thing here is you don't want the bonding agent to soak in leaving only the talc (or whatever) behind. So you want just enough clear beneath it to seal...that's all you want beneath the filler.
Then after you apply the filler, sand. You want to be able to sand down to the point where only the filler in the grain remains. When it is perfect, give it a mist coat of silver or light grey, take a look at it in the light, then blush. (OK, so it wasn't perfect.) Fill the imperfections and check again. And again if you need to.
If you are using light colors, use a blocking color coat beneath. Either polar grey or silver is good beneath colors like white or yellow. It will take a lot less color dope to cover. Over dark colors you won't need a blocking color first.
Back masking is also a good practice, which is where you mask off all areas except where you want this particular color to go. Don't paint the plain all white, then put red trim over that, and maybe blue in some areas over the red. Pigment is heavy and you want to use as little as possible.
When done, add your ink lines, clear coat the whole mess, let it dry a week or so (with Brodak--a month if using SIG) and polish it out.
Have fun.
Leonard Neumann
I haven't ever backmasked because when I paint my reds on anything but a light primer or color (not gray primer either) it doesn't POP that color out like it does over white. I just was discussing this with Bill Byles and he agrees with me as it is what he always does. Mark Hughes complained bitterly about his choice of painting Brodak red over clear instead of a white primer. So even though weight is a major consideration, an even light white coat of primer or color is the way to go for even, bright red coverage. (All of this is in reference to dope).
>
>Have fun.
Bottom line.
Chris...
What do you do if you are using a blue and red scheme, for instance?
I realize there is a difference in appearance of some colors over grey or silver or white. If white is the best background under the red, then maybe you would use a very light coat of grey for blocking, then a light coat of white for background, then a light coat of red. You might do that in the areas where the red is to go, and back mask in the areas that are going to be blue (or whatever).
Candy colors are another case, as is that B-25 silver that was made up for Windy. You need silver first, then the color or it won't work properly.
Leonard Neumann
As to the question on primers, to me they are kind of a cross between filler or sanding sealer and paint. A good primer should give you a strong base with good adhering qualities for the color, at least in my world.
In any case, I'll post the results. My last Tempest wasn't a Concourse winner but it was respectable. Now, if I can just avoid air that's heavily polluted with asphalt........
Jeff
Scott Riese
For what it's worth, I like to do the solid areas with Jap tissue. Not the open bays. Its thin, almost weightless and really covers grain well. keep new # 11 blades and a double edged razor blade handy and don't worry about overlapping strips and dicing edges. It's very thin and they fill easily.
One trick if you do. Put several coats of clear on the wood, sanding just enough to have no fuzz. Then apply your Jap tissue with straight thinner. Take's a bit of practice but tips, corners etc can come out really well with no weight penalty.
As I said, it's what work's for me. Wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.
Jeff W
I'm going to use it on my Nobler for VSC. I need something,"...Fast, fast, fast".
Chris...
DROP????? not Table spoon. or 1oz, Just a drop? TEACH ME WHY? and how much is "some white"
Scott( Izz got to know)Riese
Scott Riese
Scott,
Joe Reinhard gave us instructions on his light finish method. He does not say how much silver to add; only that a little silver goes a long way. I have the directions in hand but not in a computer file. Joe is old fashioned. I can make a copy and mail it to you if you email your address. Joe uses silver in all his paint to get a lightweight finish, except in white and yellow which do not stay the right color. The white will be slightly gray and I use that as a base coat.
Jerry