ARF

Having just spent 2 hrs wrestling with my Nobler wing
on the garage floor trying to get the wing tail and pushrods
perfect, HOW much work does an ARF require to get flying.
Drill the motor mounts and head out, or does it require
building skills that Iam lacking... Boris

>Having just spent 2 hrs wrestling with my Nobler wing
>on the garage floor trying to get the wing tail and pushrods
>perfect, HOW much work does an ARF require to get flying.
>Drill the motor mounts and head out, or does it require
>building skills that Iam lacking... Boris

Well Boris it doesn't take as much skill to build a ARF as is does a full size stunter but I hope you have changed the control system. If you look at some of the other threads you will see it's a must do.

NO,like an idiot I followed the instructions..
Have 3 more kits and will build the wing,flaps,elev
and cut out the bottom of the fuselage before even
think of mating the wing... Just a little pissed
right now..... Thanks for the vent..but really
is a ARF tuff to build

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-04 AT 00:30 AM (CST)
 
>but really is a ARF tuff to build

I bought one last year and had a really difficult
time replacing the leadouts. Then I messed up
cutting the hinge pockets on the flaps big time.
I had to remove the monokote from the flaps
to fix them and then apply new monokote,
which didn't quite match the original.
By that point, I simply ran out of patience and
sold it for cheap. I would prefer an ARC (almost
ready to cover) to an ARF. The Brodak Cardinal
& Oriental come as either, I was really tempted to buy
the Cardinal ARC, except it is too big to fit in
my car.

That being said, I have gotten another Nobler ARF.
I simply cannot build kits anymore due to allergies.
Sanding balsa is not my friend.
Having learned (maybe) from my previous mistakes, I have
some ideas I am going to try which deviate significantly
from the instructions. If they work, I will post
them here. If they don't - I will take up model
railroading again.

I am not sure what type of car you have, but I have carried as many as one PAMPA stunter, a Classic and one OTS model in the back seat area of my 98 Accord. I simply unbolt and remove the bottom portion of the back seat and store it in a storage building on my property. Then I add a width and length of black plastic to the back seat area so no oil will drip on the remaining cushions and on the floor. All of my flying equipment and chairs and luggage then goes in the trunk. Hope this helps.

>I am not sure what type of car you have, but I have carried
>as many as one PAMPA stunter, a Classic and one OTS model in
>the back seat area of my 98 Accord. I simply unbolt and
>remove the bottom portion of the back seat and store it in a
>storage building on my property. Then I add a width and
>length of black plastic to the back seat area so no oil will
>drip on the remaining cushions and on the floor. All of my
>flying equipment and chairs and luggage then goes in the
>trunk. Hope this helps.

Actually, it doesn't help at all. Unless you are suggesting Boris build his model in the back seat of a Honda Accord.

Couldn't resist...

Ed,
Maybe I don't understand your statement, but on at least my Nobler arf, the hinge pockects were already cut for flaps and elevator/stab. Has that changed?

LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-04 AT 00:33 AM (CST)
 
>Maybe I don't understand your statement, but on at least my Nobler
>arf, the hinge pockects were already cut for flaps and
>elevator/stab. Has that changed?

Not the slots, the V-notch it shows to cut on P.7 of the
instructions, I cut them too deep.

hi ed i am working on a friends arf nobler as we speak. here is a very easy way to replace leadouts and b/crank. from the center of the wing right in that big hole clip leadout as tight as you can against the b/crank. hold old lead out wire out of hole as much as possible with tape, balsa whatever works. now overlap new leadout wire about 1/4 in. w/old leadout wire. (should lay flat against each other) hit it w/hot stuff and kicker. now, very carefully pull the new wire down through the wing . if it wants to hangup spin it slightly between your fingers. this arf i am doing will have a suspended b/crank and control horns by tom morris. make sure you change out the control system, other wise it's life may be very short. willied:)

willied

Thanks, Iam committed to the setup that Ive got, will
start my second kit soon and consider kit #1 as fodder.
Realised that the weak points are the pushrod and control
horn, will build totally different and look for the comments
on the control setup. Thanks Boris The learning curve
is right at 90 straight up..

Boris,
If you can still get at it, try to put some blue locktite on the pushrod threads/clevis. One of the really weak points is that the clevis fits pretty loosely on the threaded rod. At least for me, the locktite has held up to the point that I went to ball links. People have lost their planes due to the pushrod pulling out.

Alan, still using old 3/32 music wire, are the threaded
rods and the clips that screw on the way to go??

No!
I was assuming that you were using the supplied hardware. If not, I think at least you won't have the stock clevis pull off the threaded rod.

>HOW much work does an ARF require to get flying?

Lots.

That's why we have the Builder Of Model rule.

Cy

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-04 AT 07:32 AM (CST)
 
Cat,
Oh Don't open that can of worms again!

Boris,
Not sure I can help, but if you are able to come out and fly with us bring it with and maybe between Kreth and I we can tag team it.
If not maybe call Brodak. They may have some folks there that can answer you questions.

And if you are going to be wrestling, I would call Jerry the King Lawlar and have him there as backup.

This hobby should be free from stress!
Good luck =)
Paul

Hi Boris,

How far have you progressed with your ARF Nobler? From your post it sounds as if you ready to install the wing and connect the controls.

As the previous thread suggested, have you upgraded you control system? If not then STOP! Do not install the original equipment control system into your Nobler. There are several failure points within the original control system and if not corrected will cause you to crash you ARF prematurely.

The question is how far have you progressed.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-04 AT 08:44 AM (CST)
 
I have always believed that the ALMOST in ARF is a well-thought-out scheme to insulate the manufacturer from liability and product-failure claims. Leave room on the hook for somebody else.

In my "Wichita" days at Finley's Hobbys, there was a cottage industry of RC-flyers who made money doing final assembly of RC-ARF's.

I now live in Macomb County Michigan ( the jig & fixture capital of the world). If you're within driving distance, I could get your ARF in the air. If not, find a CL-modeler close to you.

I've never seen the inside of a Brodak box, but (sight unseen) I guarantee I could get it in the air.

Nothing like reading about people bashing something that is supposed to get you in the air in very little time. Think back when you started and some of the stuff you flew, speaking to anybody over 50 on this. I am still amazed that gause and Elmers glue kept the nose on my Ringmaster, Flite Streak and Firecat. Lost count of how many hours I had on them. Now use fiberglas and epoxy, get stress cracks here and there. But, back to the ARF Nobler, I have been flying mine over a year now. Yes the getting the pushrod length just right was a hassle. Link everything up an bolt wing on and try the controls. Too much elevator up on neutral. Take apart and fight that link to get it all apart and make adjustments. Took a while, but, it was worth it. Still trimming on the Nobler, but, it flys almost as good as the built Noblers I have had thru the years. For the money it is one good plane. I did replace leadouts as I did not like the clips on the bellcrank. The bellcrank looks better than the Fox I put in. Just consider the time you spent on the ARF compaired to the kit. Later, -DOC

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-04 AT 01:46 PM (CST)
 
There is a very easy way to put the controls in the ARF Nobler.Build the complete stab,solder the clevis to the push rod,mount completed push rod on stab and slide in from the back.You will need to cut the piece behind the stab to do this.Adjust the flap horn clevis and solder it to the push rod.Now you can still move the stab back and forth a small amount and you can be sure the stab is in straight.Glue it at that spot. It only takes fifteen minutes. My Nobler with all the mods only took three hours and that included making a big change to the nose for a slide in tank. Allen told how to do the controls this way in Flying Models and that is were I got the idea.
Ed

>...mount completed push rod on stab and slide in from
>the back. You will need to cut the piece behind the
>stab to do this.

That's what I was thinking of doing this time.

Mike, this all started about me asking about the
arf nobler..Iam up to my elbows right now working
on a kit nobler, but had a fewww beers last
night and ordered a arf from Tower. Have gotten
a lot of great gouge from everybody think my
new arf nobler just might turn out good. Boris

>
>And if you are going to be wrestling, I would call Jerry the
>King Lawlar and have him there as backup.
>
>This hobby should be free from stress!
>Good luck =)
>Paul

Maybe Prince Mongo could help, too.

Called them but they did not want to tangle with
NOBLER THE NASTY,,called tower for the arf, will
complete NTN kit,maybe, would make good starter
wood for the fireplace.. Boris

>>HOW much work does an ARF require to get flying?
>
>Lots.
>
>That's why we have the Builder Of Model rule.
>
>Cy

Best line of 2004! Cy, you are unexcelled!!!

LOL!!!

The more time you spend trying to get in ARF nobler just right, the longer it could take you to do it!

If you search the threads, you'll find lots of pertinent information for upgrading your plane.

I spent so much time screwing around with mine, that I finally just set it to one side for a while. Sometime over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to glue the wing and tail in, so that I can fly the darned thing!

Sure, it's a lot faster than building a classic nobler but it's a lot less expensive as well. The main bonus is that 90% of them fly a thousand times better than what most guys can build themselves.

That's priceless!

BIGS

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

Thanks for all the inputs from everybody, got the wing stab and elev
set and tacked. Could not use washers on pushrod so went with the old
bckup,,,keepers. At this point just ready to finish and move on,,talked toMr. Brodak and think the arf Oriental might give me a ship to fly, then will go back and start Nobler #2.. Boris

Hey Boris, If you get a chance...check out Tom Dixon's website. It has some good tips on modifing your Nobler ARF step by step. Hope this helps!

>Hey Boris, If you get a chance...check out Tom Dixon's
>website. It has some good tips on modifing your Nobler ARF
>step by step. Hope this helps!

It's kind of hard to find without a specific link:

http://members.tripod.com/~TomDixon/updates.htm

From Tom Dixon's site:

Nobler Upgrade Instructions

Bellcrank: Remove metal bellcrank in kit, including mounting bout. Cut top spruce spar away to allow 3" nylon bellcrank to be installed. Replace spruce spar with 1/8" plywood "bridge" after installing bellcrank.

Leadouts: Cut and remove kit leadouts. Cut C-D leadout cable into two equal pieces. C-A or solder 1" of cable to a piece of 1/32" music wire. Thread music wire through wing, pulling cables through tip tubing, all the way through wing, to bellcrank. Detach/cut cables from music wire and fasten to bellcrank using copper tubing crimp sleeves provided. Crimp tubing with vice-grip pliers or crimping tool. Form loops in outer ends of leadouts in same manner.

Pushrods: Retain new flap pushrod (3/32" wire) in middle (or inside, if preferred) hole of bellcrank. Retain with 3/32" wheel collar "safetied" with a dab of epoxy. Rear pushrod (3/32" wire with carbon sleeve) is retained in horns with wheel collar at flaps and soldered washer at elevator. Thread pushrod through fuselage, then attach to flap horn before attaching wing.

Horns: Open holes in flaps and elevators to 1/8" or 7/64" inch. To receive horns saturate horn holes with thin CA glue, pour out excess and allow to cure. Re-drill holes to remove and "fuzz." Attach horns to rear of wing/stab by epoxing folded metal bearings into slots cut into T.E.'s. If you prefer, you can install horns in flaps/elevator first and then assemble to wing/stab as you install hinges. This requires you to install flaps/elevators before attaching wing/stab to fuselage, of course. Glue horns into control surfaces with slow cure epoxy.

Fuel Tank: Set up 4oz plastic clunk tank for uniflow, with uniflow clunk about 3/8" ahead of pick-up clunk. Gring away enough of motor mounts in tank compartment to allow C/L of tank to line up with NVA of engine. Re-fuel proof tank area with epoxy.

(8/25/03)

Tom, thanks,thanks, just came back in from working onthe I will kick your butt kit] got on line and ordered the arf
kit from Tower. Printed your message and will get to Tom's. Its not
going to look THAT bad but think if I can do the arf, wife will
not have to mace me and grab gun. Thanks Boris

boris