Current day props

Hi, it is me again.
What are good props these days. I still have a lot of old Top Flite wide blade props and some Rev-Up Series 2. All of these are in the 10-5 through 11-6 range. All I see in the hobby shop is plastic grey props now. Are the wood still available and are they any good compared to the new plastic ones? The hobby shop said all the wood props are good for is paint stirers.

David...the gray plastic props are usually APC's...good props because they are pretty much pitched to what they are labeled. The knock is that they are heavy and SHARP.
I like them for most everything.
I think the best wood props available in the sizes that you are seeking are Rev-Up....but Master Airscrew makes suitable pieces, too.

See Ya

Wood props with have a place in C/L flying forever. Fox 35, McCoy 35 and your older engines like the 10x6 BY&O from Brodak & XW Zinger. For your higher RPM engines the lower pitched APC, Bolly, Gator, and other Carbon Fiber props are the way to go.
ADVANTAGE Plastic or composite props. These props are not for the beginner. Carbon props are TEN times the cost then an APC. Composite balance with ease and you can change the pitch in a few minutes. Wood you have to be careful when balancing as not to take the airfoil down. It all comes down to the Plane and engine set up that your going to use. WOOD and or Composite All have some advantage over each other.

I have found the Zinger-Pro wood props to work very well.
Richard Oliver

For those that want to try the Zinger Pro Tower has them.I just bought some 11/4 from them.
Ed

>Hi, it is me again.
> What are good props these days. I still have a lot of old
>Top Flite wide blade props and some Rev-Up Series 2. All of
>these are in the 10-5 through 11-6 range. All I see in the
>hobby shop is plastic grey props now. Are the wood still
>available and are they any good compared to the new plastic
>ones? The hobby shop said all the wood props are good for is
>paint stirers.
>
>David

Hi david,
IMHO, it depends.
Really; what engine, plane, level of ability, etc., all play a factor.
I used a Rev UP military surplus 12-5 on my T&L ST 51/SV-11 set up about 11 years ago, and it was great. I was just in to Intermediate then. Last year, same engine in my USA-1 and I started off with the same prop. Switched to an Eather "green 3-bld" cut to about 11-3/4 X 4 3/4. Much better. Cost? About $2 for the Rev Up, $30 for the Eather.
I fly "Old" Top Flite paddle blades on my Classic/OTS ships along with B-Y&Os. But I have used Bollys, too, in special conditions.
It seems the APCs are the best "compromise" and I run them on TT36 and OS FP type engines when a "broken Prop" is a risk.
Bill <><

>Hi, it is me again.
> What are good props these days. I still have a lot of old
>Top Flite wide blade props and some Rev-Up Series 2. All of
>these are in the 10-5 through 11-6 range. All I see in the
>hobby shop is plastic grey props now. Are the wood still
>available and are they any good compared to the new plastic
>ones? The hobby shop said all the wood props are good for is
>paint stirers.
>
>David

Ron B.
F4Fguy

The REV-UPs are no use at all. Send them to me and I'll dispose of them in an environmentally safe manner.

Ron B.

P.S.: Your hobby shop guy is obviously right on top of things.

David:

I operate Vintage Prop Disposal Services. Here at VPDS we assist environmentally aware hobbyists who are having trouble with unwanted or unused wooden propellers.

There's no way for me to tell you how dangerous those props are!
Considering that those old Rev-up EWs and BYOs have so much blade area, they pose a much higher risk to the environment than standard props.

Though I usually charge for my services, I'm offering a special rate to posters on SSW.

Please forward me any of the above-mentioned propellers at once. Your order will be processed at no charge whatsoever and I will send you a VPDS sticker for your toolbox.

You'll be glad you did!

BIGS

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

"VPDS"
ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!
Bill <><

P.S. I just picked up three "new" boxes of 1 dozen each TF paddle blades: 10-6, 10-5, 9-5/9-4 (6 each). Most were the one that were 25 cents new.

Don't do it! Those wooden props should _not_ be disposed of,
enviromentally safe or not, like these bozos propose.
Send them to me, 'cause I have lots of paint that needs stirring.

Hey Preston,
Just what kind of "paint" will you be stirring?
I know of Pepsi Blue and Coca Cola Red, but what color is "FOX 35"??

Bill <><

>Hi, it is me again.
> What are good props these days. I still have a lot of old
>Top Flite wide blade props and some Rev-Up Series 2. All of
>these are in the 10-5 through 11-6 range. All I see in the
>hobby shop is plastic grey props now. Are the wood still
>available and are they any good compared to the new plastic
>ones? The hobby shop said all the wood props are good for is
>paint stirers.

Many of them are. Some of them are, at best, prop "kits". I like the looks of the Master Airscrew wood props. The Brodak BY&O are OK- not up to the standards of the originals or the Clarence Bull versions, but still probably better than most of the others. Rev-Ups were not exactly the end-all and be-all of human existence either, and I don't think many people were running them "as they come" when the came to their unfortunate end in the floods of 1993.

At the end of the wood prop/4-2 break motor era, prop modifications were endemic. I was using *very severly altered* rev-ups (actually, modified to be virtually identical to the BY&O airfoil, or a good HLG) with widely varied pitch distributions.

But I think that the APC props (the gray ones) are pretty good in general, assuming you can find one that is a good match to the engine and airplane. The "match" part is critical no matter what it is made of. That's probably the biggest reason that most everyone in serious competition uses the carbon/epoxy props from Bolly and Brian Eather. You can get a few props and then just tweak and tweak until they work, instead of buying half-a-gross of Rev-Up 12-6's and running them one at a time until you find one that really works, and two others that are just mediocre.

Said it many times before, but the "good old days" are now.

For a combination I am currently flying, with Tower 40, I have found the Supercool carbon petal blade 11 x 5 to be the best I have tried. I paid $35 for it at a George Aldrich estate auction at the VSC, because I wanted it. Well, you don't want just one good prop, although the Supercool now has maybe 500 flights on it and is still going strong. So I did some experimenting. My usual first prop on a 40-size engine is an APC 11-5. Really bad, windup and no grunt up high. APX 11 x4 better, useable, but not good. Robbe 12 x 5, a big red plastic club, nearly as good as the Supercool. APC 12 3/4 x 3 1/2 horrible windup, could barely fly maneuvers. Took an 11 x 5 Zinger wide and carefully fixed it, thinned down, undercamber, the works. Almost as good as the Supercool. Wonderful, I have a backup prop. Tried an untouched Zinger 11 x 5 "prop kit". Could not tell its performance from my Zinger special. Darn!

> Took an 11 x 5 Zinger wide and carefully fixed
>it, thinned down, undercamber, the works. Almost as good as
>the Supercool. Wonderful, I have a backup prop. Tried an
>untouched Zinger 11 x 5 "prop kit". Could not tell its
>performance from my Zinger special. Darn!

That's not a lot off my exepriences. I know enough about it now that my guesses are *usually* right, but I still get surprised pretty often.

Supercool will be glad to sell you more props,
for considerably less than $35 each.
Of course, they won't be from the GMA collection.

What IS the deal with the petal bladed props? I've never seen one, other than on George's old website.

>What IS the deal with the petal bladed props? I've never
>seen one, other than on George's old website.

Long ago, George would carve these things out of wood.
A wide blade, very thin, very cambered airfoil.
He liked 'em a lot.

He and Stuart Sherlock (aka Supercool) got together to make them
from CF-epoxy. I believe Stuart made copies of the original props
(versus his usual practice of milling a mold in aluminum).

To my eye, they're funny looking: an old-fashioned shape done
in a modern material. I prefer the Supercool-designed props.
But then, I don't fly stunt.

I've attached a very small picture from his website.
I'll see if I can get a better picture.
His website is http://64.6.252.92/

We are confusing two different props. The one pictured by Preston is a 10 x 5 Aldrich Paddle Blade. The 11 x 5 Petal Blade is, as I understand it, also an Aldrich design. It is an attractive prop which could remind you of a flower petal in shape. And yes, they cost less than I paid for the original, I now have both petal and paddle blade props. Given the service the original has given me, I got a good deal on it. If I have, in fact, put 500 flights on it, it has cost me seven cents a flight.

I bought about $500 worth of B-Y&O props from the estate of Clarence Bull. Over the past year, I have distributed most of them to my friends. The Bull Y&O props were/are superb! Clarence used machines that were originally used to make the Yates/Orwick props. Clarence modified the hub to be a bit stronger.

I hope that Brodak can get his act together and make props exactly like the B-Y&O. In this age of CNC milling, it should be no problem to exactly duplicate the B-Y&O design. Somebody will eventually do just that!

>We are confusing two different props. The one pictured by
>Preston is a 10 x 5 Aldrich Paddle Blade. The 11 x 5 Petal
>Blade is, as I understand it, also an Aldrich design.

Sure, I just picked the one with the clearer picture.
Loo at the website for more.

Here are some pictures of the 11x5 petal blade.
The 1st shows a top and bottom view.
The 2nd shows a closeup of one blade.
The 3rd is at an angle, and tries to show how much camber there is, and how thin the blade is. The thinness is one of the reasons Supercool likes CF: it allows him to make props that have thin airfoils but are still stiff and strong.

The last picture is a prototype combat prop, for comparison. In this case, the blade shape (the "radial distribution of the chord") is given by Larabee's work.

Jim:

By extension does this then mean that the Zinger "prop kit" is almost as good as the Supercool? Seems to confirm what Richard Oliver stated in #3 above.

Your thoughts?
David

Lets put it this way, If I had no Supercool 11 x 5 to run on that engine/airplane I would be running a Zinger 11 x 5 wide, modified or not as the case may be. If I were only allowed to use my favorite prop, the APC 11 x 5, I would hang the airplane on the wall. I am confused. Now confusion is a hopeful sign; it means I recognize I have inadequate understanding. One thing I realize is that the prop affects how the engine runs much more than I had thought.

Brett:

You are so right! I've love the "good old days" stuff and have held on to my Rev Up 10-6 EWs like long lost children, but after trying some APCs late last year, I realize what a difference a decade or three makes.

I've always been a lover of the old Ford Flathead V-8s. You know, a fanatic who thinks Ford went out of business at the start of the '54 model year with its first overhead valve V-8!
A couple of years ago I had the chance to drive a beautifully restored '53 Victoria, Flathead V-8 with overdrive. What a way to mess up memories. The engine was smooth and quiet-by, '53 standards. By todays standard it would be a bad joke with no power or response.
Steering, brakes, handling, body integrity and all kinds of other
things....well, some things remember much better than they live.
I'd still love to own it but I guess I'd have to face reality.

I took 28 years off from stunt, returning in 2002. We've lost some things, like most good hobby shops catering to C/L, but the substitutes like Brodak, RSM and all the others make up for it. Even running equipment that is far from state of the art today, I can do things I never dreamed of when I quit in '74.

As you say Brett, "these are the good old days!".

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-04 AT 08:54 PM (CST)
 
Among the low-budget props, besides the APC, the Master Airscrew Scimitar (plastic), Taipan, Robbe and Graupner are all worth trying. The 9-6 Robbe is a good prop for a NWSR (FoxBerg racer), tho an APC may be better. Robbe (German) seems to have grey and orange props, with different blade stiffness. I think the Robbe orange props are stiffer. Stiff blades are good, unless you're plowing with them. The Graupners work very well, and have a blade shape that is more acceptable to traditionalists. Like most things German, the Robbe and Graupner are the most expensive of the "cheap" plastic props. The Taipans are really cheap, but quite a nice product. They make a very nice 11-5. Regarding wood props, I checked the pitch of a single sample MA 10-5, and found it to be accurate and constant 5" from root to tip...I was amazed. I also got some 11-6XW Zingers...these are so much nicer than normal LHS stocked Zingers that you wouldn't think they came from the same company. Steve

Are the Taipans back in production? I've heard the molds have changed hands two or three times in the recent past, and the latest production is in white unreinforced plastic, which is good for beginners and Speed Limit combat. Too bad there's no 5x3.