A letter worth apologizing for by a certain District Directo

In the thread about the AMA offering to help with the vote count, Len Neumann and I mentioned an email that Windy Urtnowski sent out to the world on his public email account for all to read including Shareen Fancher. This email was forwarded to him by Bob Zambelli and had another email in it from a PAMPA District Director that is not identified. I believe all on here need to read it and demand that this individual make a public apology to the PAMPA Secretary Treasurer for the profanity that he used to describe her. Furthermore, he wrongly accused her of not paying out of her own pocket Lew Woolard's PAMPA dues, which Lew forgot to do. Shareen has never paid any PAMPA members dues. I know this because I forgot to pay mine and she let me expire too. In fact, this year over 300 former PAMPA members have not renewed and Shareen has not paid for one. That is not her job. Finally, the question is what PAMPA District Director has had a knee operated on and repaired?

The following is the email from Windy:

THE ANTI STUKS NEWS TODAY,STUKA STUNT,aka AL JEZERA?????these are comming in every day now,Im so glad John hasnt become part of the mud slinging,shows hes a class act.PASS IT ON.

From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Date: 01/24/05 11:59:29
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: A letter worth reading.


Hi, Windy - Please read this. The writer has requested to be anonymous, at least for now.

If ted succeeds in alienating people against John, I will not only quit PAMPA but do everything in my power to insure that others do the same. I don't need to have one of my closest friend be the continuous target of this malicious c**p.

And, my guess is that all those who have badmouthed John or failed to support him will not be welcome at his fly-in. I know that if I were him, I would certainly not let them on my property.

If these jac****es cannot deal with the fact that John is president, I will quote a past "leader" who said let them "get the f*** out of PAMPA." Seems like the "leader" said just that when asked to remove a certain disgusting writer.

Bob

Hi Guys:

I am about as wired as I have ever been! I am completely p***ed at
ted and his bunch of henchmen!

John has taken more abuse from that b**t**d than any one human should
have to tolerate after 3 marriages! I hear that he's going to run another
hate column in SN and I have asked Will Hubin to censor the crap! Will allows
that some higher-ups send their s*** directly to Tom Morris and therefore he
doesn't get to see it. Will is not a terribly aggressive personality either.
Heretofore none of us really had to be the Hockey Player type! Boy does this
s*** take me back! I really am only 22 1/2 you know! Now that my knee has
been fixed my attitude has gotten tough again!

Had you heard that Dave Cook resigned because ted and his bunch of a**
kissers went after him? Well they did and a pillar of stunt is gone from our
midst. Next Shareen tells us that Lou Wollard isn't a member since he
didn't pay his '05 dues! Well his wife has had a bout with congestive heart
failure and has been in and out of the hospital for the last 3+ months! Bob
Brookins overnighted his money to the b***h for Lou. Lou is 81 and Dave Cook
is 75+ both men have been four square behind John Brodak. ted and his a***s
are trying to chip away at John's power base so that they will assume a
majority status without earning it! Such s*** heads! Clever s*** heads but
none the less s*** heads!

We have a tremendous fighter on our side in Bob Dixon as supported by Kent
Tysor and me. I only hope that Windy doesn't chicken out when the s*** hits
the fan as it truly will before too long...stay tuned! We're really going to
clear the benches!

McClain,

You and I both know who it is, and I suspect you'll be waiting till hell freezes over for your apology. So why bother with the internet.? Why don't you call him and settle it mano a mano instead of posting stuff like the Drudge report?

>McClain,
>
> You and I both know who it is, and I suspect you'll be
>waiting till hell freezes over for your apology. So why
>bother with the internet.? Why don't you call him and
>settle it mano a mano instead of posting stuff like the
>Drudge report?
>
>
>Steve

Steven,

Why do you defend such base behavior?

A few weeks ago I suggested that all PAMPA and political stuff be placed in a new conference thread called Politics(or something like that). Now I would like to propose tha all the political stuff like this, placed in the "Humor/Fun (Jokes, riddles, and puzzles)" conference, so that we can move on and deal with the important stuff of building, flying and crashing!

>
>Steven,
>
>Why do you defend such base behavior?

Col,
Exposed to the light of day, this private communication, which I am certain was NOT intended to be made public, certainly seems base and crude in its content. The problem is, people talk this way sometimes. Remember how horrified people were at the Commander in Chief's language when Nixon's tapes were made public? After being raised in New Jersey, and living in a barracks for four years, I work very hard to make sure I don't let loose with a torrent of profanity in my spoken or written communication. Those who fly with me have seen me fail miserably at it sometimes when things don't go well. I'm not going to take shots at the way somebody chooses to speak in their private communications-thats their business. You have endeavored to make it a public problem, and I'm not sure leaking something like this will contribute anything positive to the present "grave crisis" facing Pampa.
The other problem people sometimes have in this hobby is that not everybody perfectly understands email communication and that things that that don't belong or are not germane to a particular forward or reply sometimes get left on. I'm certain that the author of this had no intention of having this become a public matter.-and had no idea his letter would follow the thread, being pushed lower and lower in the email que but always there. An apology may be in order for comments disrespectful to a lady; however, I for one would be happy if it was made personally directly and privately to Mrs Fancher. As the original email was intended as a private communication, I think the apology should be private also.-to be accepted, or rejected, by the receipient but NO ONE else. I don't think the practice of obtaining private communications and airing them on SSW is going to do squat for helping the already poor communications you , Fancher, etc have already cited. If anything, it will have a chilling effect in which only people picking up a phone or meeting face to face will feel free to speak their minds. Given how far flung this group is, and given the regionalism already an issue here, do you think this sort of expose will really help?

In closing, I would like to point out I don't wish for you to characterize me in your mind as an apologist for Brodak, Kent, or any of the other district directors we are familiar with. I'm still trying to understand all the issues and why everybody has gotten so fired up about them. In my mind, there is enough blame to go around for all concerned. I don't really know Brodak that well at all, but I know some of the directors enough to consider them friends and not evil or misguided people. Profane, in one case, but not a bad person. Maybe they are all wrong, but I don't think so. I respect their judgement and beliefs, as I respect those of Mr Fancher, etc. I still hold out hope they can get it all sorted out, as long as the rest of us don't throw too many grenades into the fire...

Nixon was impeached, maybe that needs to happen here. Mr. Spillman is very violent in his tone and is very revealing in his attitude towards other elected Pampa officals, it is nice to know who to stear clear of.

Steve,

You have no argument from me. Windy is the one who sent this around the world. I and others have sat on it and similar emails for over a month. Now, with John's attacks on Carl Shoup and others, you have an opportunity to ask them to ratchet down the rhetoric, apologize to those they have deeply offended. That is the gentlemanly thing to do.

So, you and I won't be welcome at the Brodak Fly-In? I always thought "support" should be earned on the merits of the proposed change, and frankly, they started out really lame, and then got better, and then got way worse, and none of this was done by following the existing Bylaws. If I wanted to go to the Brodak Fly-In, I'd go, and if I was ejected for being a member of the opposition, I'd sue his socks off. AMA would back me up. The sanction has to state that it is open to all, or open only to club members.

It appears that those in the Brodak camp simply don't understand, or don't want to understand, what our objections are. Similarly, we can't comprehend how they can justify ignoring the current Bylaws to ram through new ones.

It's all very sad. There certainly is no justification for calling people names. I don't personally know of anybody calling JB, Bob Z. or Windy names, even when they are not pleased with some of their actions. Ted and Shareen certainly do not deserve to be called nasty names. Now, do I gotta go figure out who had a knee replaced, or will somebody please fill me in? Steve

Oooo, he used a dirty word. Well lets focus on that instead of the point, Ted's group continuosly trying to chip away at the Brodak presidency. I've worked with a whole bunch of people from many different walks of life. Some of the most intellegent didn't speak much english. A couple others speak like sailors on a drunk when they are not 'in public eye' and some of the sneakier ones never use a dirty word.

Quick edit here. I didn't say it was Ted, the letter writer said it was Ted. What language he used I could care less although it does describe how upset he is/was at that time.

Maybe the Air Force doesn't cuss. I grew up with both parents as Marines, my wife's family is career Navy, and I lived next to a Navy Base. So, it doesn't bother me too much.

Oops - I told myself I wouldn't post anymore.

Personally, I always liked the stuff flown on the East Coast - Larry Scarinzi, Eddie Elasick, Bill Simons, Moses Quintana, even Bob Hunt: Flying Models stuff. Reminds me of Slot Cars - there was Mura and John Cukras, and then there was Champion of Chamblee and Jerry Brady. Mike Steube was on the West Coast, but they didn't have that bottom of the bowling alley basement look.

Then there's yo-yo's: up to $400 dollars these days - anodized, CNC machined Aluminum with ceramic bearings! Duncan, YoYojam, and two competing forums. As an aside, the original 60's Duncan Yo-Yo Man was Bob Rule, who founded Champion of Chamblee! Now he owns Bo-Link, a major RC car maker. He lives in my town, (has even helped me with the yo-yo "pattern") and is a real nice guy.

It just happens that Bo-Link used to be in the Tower Catalog. See? It's all connected. Ummm, what was the name of that symphony Fernando mentioned?

Tom, the Micheal Moore wing of Pampa will have a hard time twisting this letter around so they can justify their reasoning why the by-laws can go through. What a bunch of hyocrites, they are so concerned about growth of C/L, yet they condone such language. What parent would want their children involved with the likes of these looney-tunes?

"The Michael Moore Wing of PAMPA"???

Hmmm Dino, I guess if he would have published the letter in 'Highlights' magazine I would have worried, but as it was a letter to a friend at a highly emotional time I kind of look differently at it. I'm probably not worthy of representing pampa either, once after hammering off the last 1/4 inch of my finger with a 3 pound sledge, I said a dirty word too.

Did you know that at the turn of the last century Humbug was a dirty word. When Dickens used it in 'A Christmas Carol' it was quite shocking.

Crane,

Hmm, I don't believe I've ever heard Ted say a bad word about John Brodak. I've heard him call Mr. Brodak's proposals into question and ask that we examine the changes Brodak and, apparently the people noted in this rather disgusting email have made. I've heard him ask why Mr. Brodak has has ignored the existing by-laws and I've heard him make some statements to attempt to counter some of the spurious allegations made against him. But I don't believe I've ever heard him comment on Mr. Brodak himself or call Mr. Brodak's character into question.

I don't agree with Tom on posting this tripe to SSW simply because it only adds fuel to an already roaring fire. I suppose it brings into rather harsh light the sort of folks that are supporting Brodak's by-law changes, but I can't see how it's going to aid in ever healing PAMPA.

Gee bad language. Where I worked for the last 35 years we had a phrase "he said, she said." It referred to incidents which we did not witness for ourselves. Often reported by parties with a vested interest one way or another. Usually it signaled wimpy male and female gossip. Could be corrosive and destructive nonetheless. I'm opposed to leaking private stuff from EC debates and anonymous e-mails. "He said, she said" well, see above. Hopefully the truth will out. Leak, leak, drip, drip. Bad behavior is not a political plus. Also, I think the above e-mail is a little different than the one I received. Took it with a grain of salt when I got it. I am opposed to relaying the thoughts of someone who chooses to be anonymous. Even if subject to a Rush evisceration or the vengeance of Carl Rove. Stand up say what you have to and identify yourself.

Also, I don't believe the e-mail list referred to was exactly a public list. I think it was Bob Zambelli's list. He's quite selective about who he sends to. There are indications that the list was hijacked a while back by some cyber desperado. Having witnessed some of the statements made by gentleman here from the opposing camp (before they were deleted, had to be quick on the view) I know those protesting purity of purpose are not always pure of heart.

This is my attempt at balance and perspective. An ongoing challenge. I will keep an open mind and make it up when the time comes.

"Even if subject to a Rush evisceration "

You must be referring to my better combat days-- long ago, alas.

You just made me laugh so hard I nearly passed out!!!

Howard,

Hmm, I dunno. You did a pretty good job at the Fall Follies. Figuatively at least.

>"Even if subject to a Rush evisceration "
>
>You must be referring to my better combat days-- long ago,
>alas.

I heard some of the Norfolk guys could beat you back in the better days......!

Dennis - Hijacked? You can BET on it. A very intelligent ploy for discrediting me (since I DID NOT write it) or some other Bob. But either accidently or otherwise, the cyberhack left out an important detail: He/she signed it "Bob".

Go back over all the e-mails I've written or forwarded and you'll see that everything I sign is "Bob Z".

Yes, that message was sent to me and possibly someone else recieved it or hacked into my mailbox (It has happened here on numerous other occasions). Then, I assume, forwarded to others - it came to me by way of Great Britain, along with the "worth reading" addition. How it's all done is way beyond me - I'm barely able to operate a hand-held calculator, let alone infitrate a computer system.

If there is truly some sort of intrusion in our corporate mail system, the perpetrators will eventually be found out. As to what would happen to those caught? Probably nothing, sad to say.

Well, there you go. Bob says he didn't even send it.

>Dennis - Hijacked? You can BET on it. A very intelligent
>ploy for discrediting me (since I DID NOT write it) or some
>other Bob. But either accidently or otherwise, the cyberhack
>left out an important detail: He/she signed it "Bob".
>
>Go back over all the e-mails I've written or forwarded and
>you'll see that everything I sign is "Bob Z".
>
>Yes, that message was sent to me and possibly someone else
>recieved it or hacked into my mailbox (It has happened here
>on numerous other occasions). Then, I assume, forwarded to
>others - it came to me by way of Great Britain, along with
>the "worth reading" addition. How it's all done is way
>beyond me - I'm barely able to operate a hand-held
>calculator, let alone infitrate a computer system.
>
>If there is truly some sort of intrusion in our corporate
>mail system, the perpetrators will eventually be found out.
>As to what would happen to those caught? Probably nothing,
>sad to say.
>
>Bob Z.

I have to say after reading the email in question that I'm shocked to see the language used to describe another volunteer who works very hard. I really had a hard time believing some of this stuff until someone sent me the email in question, same exact one posted here.

However, being an IT Professional certified in both Microsoft and Cisco, I don’t believe the hacking excuse. The hacking excuse is always the first defense when an email that was private becomes public. First of all, a person hacking into email almost never sends a personal message from your email account in an attempt to smear. The goal is to get all the addresses attached to your account in an effort to spread a virus very rapidly. The suggestion that someone knew about the heated discussions in Pampa, and picked your email account to attempt to smear is highly unlikely to say the least. You would have a better chance at winning the lottery!

>Go back over all the e-mails I've written or forwarded and
>you'll see that everything I sign is "Bob Z".

Unfortunately this is not the case, I have several emails from you that are only signed only “Bob”. I have nothing againest you at all, but to say every email you send is only signed "Bob Z" is not true. The email was not about business, but very personal. It was a mistake to write it, and a mistake to send it via email. It’s a huge mistake to blame it on a hacker, in this case it doesn’t fly. I must say this a million times in a day, email is never private, it’s always public. So don’t send something you don’t want the entire world to know.

.
>say this a million times in a day, email is never private,
>it’s always public. So don’t send something you don’t want
>the entire world to know.

David Eyskens
Thanks for the advice-You are absolutely correct--I must always be cognizant of this fact--Thats why it is so important to express oneself within appropriate boundaries..Externalizing your actions to a hyjacker is pretty weak-Just accounatbility is all, we all make mistakes in the heat of anger..I know I have made many..The internal or external consequences that result,I am no longer willing to pay, if I can help it!!!GRIN-Thansk David

Wm,

Most often agree, pretty much, with what you post, but a bit uneasy with this one. Remember?

>>an email that Windy Urtnowski sent out to the world on his public
>>email account for all to read including Shareen Fancher. This
>>email was forwarded to him by Bob Zambelli and had another email
>>in it from a PAMPA District Director that is not identified.

...Unless Grzly made the whole thing up to provoke us? Now, how likely is that? He knew he'd have to run the flak gauntlet with his first leaked draft post, and has taken some hits.

At the least, and it should be easily confirmed if WU's post went to all his TO:-list, bad taste and ugly images of the people spreading it?

Ad hominem means attack the person, not the facts or the argument. It's a last resort, used when facts no longer support one's case. Unless I missed something, there was no discussion of substance in the 'TO:Planet earth' post, but there was a lot of vengeful sounding attack and insult against individuals.

It would practically persuade me to not favor Winfred, et al's side of the matter if I were not already pretty sure how I see these things.

I was just listening to Drudge on the way into work. Lets see, President Bush's longtime 'Friend' and religious council is releasing 9 hours of secretly recorded tapes, sound bite by sound bite of course. We'll get to here and have heard about everytime Bush had a beer, snorted coke, smoked dope, lusted after a woman, everything that you might go to confession for, and we'll get to here that trickle out everytime his approval raitings get to high. Bet Katie Couric can act surprised as if she never heard of this eight or nine times in the future.

Paris Hilton's phone was hacked and she evidently did everything with that phone and somehow everywhere she has gone with it is now available to the general public by some hacker. Man, I take my phone into the bathroom with me. The idea that someone could know how much toilet paper I use, ick! And to think, she's a popular girl. Is OUR number on her phone? 2500 other peoples were. Enter that Kevin Bacon factor, how removed from Paris are YOU.

Palm Beach's Aids list is now part of the public domain, yet another reason NOT to test everyone for diseases including Aids. How'd you like to be entered into a database incorrectly, not know it, but have your insurance, you loan history and your marriage vows taken to task by just anyone if you happen to become a public figure? Of course that's the same place that decided that if they wanted all of Rush Limbaughs medical history they could just go take it so that they could analyze it and see if he's ever done anything wrong.

Every day on this board, sometimes every hour, there is another accusation against Brodak, or against the Group of 14 or whatever and afterall, I read it on the internet so it must be true. I heard it third hand it must be true.

Maybe the Amish DO have it right. Maybe this technology thing will be the downfall of us all. Meanwhile, I've got to keep dumping tons and tons of email thanks to Paris having me on her phone under, tubby bald guy in KC. Nice to make an impression and get in her phone list but she never called. Wonder who gets more phone calls now, Vin Diezel or me?

It might be a little late to look at it this way but everything you do, ever you say is not private. Every un-chaste thought, every snear, every time you get halfway home from Wendys and figure out that they forgot to put the fries in the bags, every intemporate thought is not private.

Strangely enough, every time you do stop and change that old ladies tire for her or in my case, when you jump out and get those peoples queen size mattress out of the road and end up going for a little ride as the old man driving a car about half a mile behind you doesn't recognize the fact that there is a 54 by 60 inch square white thing standing up in the middle of the road with a person behind it so he just keeps on going, ALL of that stuff is private, nobody gonna give you credit on that. So just keep that stuff in mind.

It's a crazy, digital world.

From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
William Crane
AMA 6733

ps. Oh the mattress thing? I was tossed about 10 feet into a 6 foot chainlink fence and landed on my feet, the dude was doing about 30 mph at the time, never stopped. Evidently I had the right amount of elasticity in my body that kept me from not even getting a bruise out of the incident. Stood the mattress up, it had handles so I grabbed both of them, saw this car coming on strong and actually had time to think 'You gotta be kidding me' I took half a step and the mattress and car did the rest, zingo, I was standingup after bouncing off the fence holding the mattress on the side of the road. The folks got there to pick it back up after watching it and we all laughed. I told em the next time it falls out of their truck, they're on their own. Another big laugh there.

>From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
>William Crane
>AMA 6733
>
>ps. Oh the mattress thing? I was tossed about 10 feet into
>a 6 foot chainlink fence and landed on my feet, the dude was
>doing about 30 mph at the time, never stopped. Evidently I
>had the right amount of elasticity in my body that kept me
>from not even getting a bruise out of the incident. Stood
>the mattress up, it had handles so I grabbed both of them,
>saw this car coming on strong and actually had time to think
>'You gotta be kidding me' I took half a step and the
>mattress and car did the rest, zingo, I was standingup after
>bouncing off the fence holding the mattress on the side of
>the road. The folks got there to pick it back up after
>watching it and we all laughed. I told em the next time it
>falls out of their truck, they're on their own. Another big
>laugh there.

When my wife and I were dating, we came upon a dog in the middle of the road who had just been hit. Still writhing in pain, and rolling around, I quickly parked the car in front of him to keep him from getting hit again (was afraid to move him - you don't touch an injured dog if he doesn't know you). We urgently went to canvas the apartments on the street to find the owners. Whereupon finding them, they proceeded to accuse us of hitting the dog with our car.

No good deed goes unpunished.

>Meanwhile, I've got to keep dumping tons and tons of email thanks to Paris having me on her phone under, tubby bald guy in KC. Nice to make an impression and get in her phone list but she never called.

Clean:
It's just as well she never called. She's a little too skinny, an airhead, and probably has several social diseases.
Of course, money can make up for some lack of perfection.
Jim

>In the thread about the AMA offering to help with the vote
>count, Len Neumann and I mentioned an email that Windy
>Urtnowski sent out to the world on his public email account
>for all to read including Shareen Fancher. This email was
>forwarded to him by Bob Zambelli and had another email in it
>from a PAMPA District Director that is not identified. I
>believe all on here need to read it and demand that this
>individual make a public apology to the PAMPA Secretary
>Treasurer for the profanity that he used to describe her.
>Furthermore, he wrongly accused her of not paying out of her
>own pocket Lew Woolard's PAMPA dues, which Lew forgot to do.
> Shareen has never paid any PAMPA members dues. I know this
>because I forgot to pay mine and she let me expire too. In
>fact, this year over 300 former PAMPA members have not
>renewed and Shareen has not paid for one. That is not her
>job. Finally, the question is what PAMPA District Director
>has had a knee operated on and repaired?
>
>The following is the email from Windy:
>
> THE ANTI STUKS NEWS TODAY,STUKA STUNT,aka AL
>JEZERA?????these are comming in every day now,Im so glad
>John hasnt become part of the mud slinging,shows hes a class
>act.PASS IT ON.
>
> From: [email protected]
>Date: 01/24/05 11:59:29
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: A letter worth reading.
>
>
>Hi, Windy - Please read this. The writer has requested to be
>anonymous, at least for now.
>
>If ted succeeds in alienating people against John, I will
>not only quit PAMPA but do everything in my power to insure
>that others do the same. I don't need to have one of my
>closest friend be the continuous target of this malicious
>c**p.
>
>And, my guess is that all those who have badmouthed John or
>failed to support him will not be welcome at his fly-in. I
>know that if I were him, I would certainly not let them on
>my property.
>
>If these jac****es cannot deal with the fact that John is
>president, I will quote a past "leader" who said let them
>"get the f*** out of PAMPA." Seems like the "leader" said
>just that when asked to remove a certain disgusting writer.
>
> Bob
>
>Hi Guys:
>
>I am about as wired as I have ever been! I am completely
>p***ed at
>ted and his bunch of henchmen!
>
>John has taken more abuse from that b**t**d than any one
>human should
>have to tolerate after 3 marriages! I hear that he's going
>to run another
>hate column in SN and I have asked Will Hubin to censor the
>crap! Will allows
>that some higher-ups send their s*** directly to Tom Morris
>and therefore he
>doesn't get to see it. Will is not a terribly aggressive
>personality either.
>Heretofore none of us really had to be the Hockey Player
>type! Boy does this
>s*** take me back! I really am only 22 1/2 you know! Now
>that my knee has
>been fixed my attitude has gotten tough again!
>
>Had you heard that Dave Cook resigned because ted and his
>bunch of a**
>kissers went after him? Well they did and a pillar of stunt
>is gone from our
>midst. Next Shareen tells us that Lou Wollard isn't a
>member since he
>didn't pay his '05 dues! Well his wife has had a bout with
>congestive heart
>failure and has been in and out of the hospital for the last
>3+ months! Bob
>Brookins overnighted his money to the b***h for Lou. Lou is
>81 and Dave Cook
>is 75+ both men have been four square behind John Brodak.
>ted and his a***s
>are trying to chip away at John's power base so that they
>will assume a
>majority status without earning it! Such s*** heads! Clever
>s*** heads but
>none the less s*** heads!
>
>We have a tremendous fighter on our side in Bob Dixon as
>supported by Kent
>Tysor and me. I only hope that Windy doesn't chicken out
>when the s*** hits
>the fan as it truly will before too long...stay tuned! We're
>really going to
>clear the benches!

David Eyskens
Do you know how SAd that is to read this-Hearing this person talk about clearing benches etc---WOW, got me frightened!!I don't know what to do..
We have a great fighter on or team B. Dixon!!!WOW, that is so sad!!I would be embarassed to have my name mentioned in that thread/email--I can only imagine how big and bad this peson really is???Nation wide I am sure...SAD-SAD--Later

David,

I think you said the magic word: "Sad". It is very sad to think a few people I know would stoop so low.

Phil Spillman, Bob Zambelli, and Windy are flirting with Criminal Conspiracy by threatening bodily harm on someone. Bob is now denying writing the email and I hear Windy is in major Spin Control. Good luck. You guys may need it.

I am reminded of a similar story, involving a National Champ wannabe encouraging her goons to attack a rival. Remember Tonya Harding? How about the Texas Cheerleader's mom?

Looks like PAMPA will make the front pages soon if this keeps up.

Enjoy,

Ron King said:

>Phil Spillman, Bob Zambelli, and Windy are flirting with
>Criminal Conspiracy by threatening bodily harm on someone.

Please be careful. There is danger in interpreting figurative speech, no matter how distasteful, and then mixing names in with your own accusation.

You are right that "SAD" is the operative word. I would rather leave it at that than ratchet things up.

My message was meant as a warning; there was no accusation. In this day and age, your words can hurt and they can also be used against you.

I agree that "sad", "sordid", and "sobering" could be used with equal effect in this whole episode.

Well, I got accused and it wasn't intentional. There was another, too - a serious one, apparently. Feelings are running too high.

> Feelings are running too high.

I doubt that anyone can argue with that statement.

Many of us are still wondering if a certain PAMPA District Director with a repaired knee has apologized to the Secretary Treasurer.

>Many of us are still wondering if a certain PAMPA District
>Director with a repaired knee has apologized to the
>Secretary Treasurer.

Tom,
All due respect, but why the drama about the identity? Sounds to me like you are talking about Phil Spillman. If I am wrong, you are leading people astray. If I am right, why not just use his name? You seem fairly convinced that someone, Phil Spillman, owes someone else, Shareen Fancher, an apology. Wouldn't it be more effective to be a bit more direct?

Please bear in mind, that I have not followed this thread closely, but just the bit I caught seems like it could have been reworded to take the guesswork out. As for the reasons for the apology, I have no opinion either way-your concern-your thread-public forum-only reason I am posting. The whole point of my post is that I really think that if we are going to request things of people, that we should be as direct and clear as possible or just stand down.

Zambelli's protestations of innocence are not credible.

Like Tom and a whole bunch of other people, I have had, and sat on, this e-mail for about a month. Recently I was supplied another e-mail "kinda" apologizing for the outrageous treatment of Shareen.

But here's something of interest:

"If ted succeeds in alienating people against John, I will not only quit PAMPA but do everything in my power to insure that others do the same. I don't need to have one of my closest friend be the continuous target of this malicious c**p."

While TomB and others go around putting forth the totally without merit idea that some of the Old Guard are plotting to tear down PAMPA, when in actuality they are working **within the system,** to get their points across, to get their opinons aired, here is a character with a known history of trying to tear things down, of working way, way outside the system and I take his threat as the Real Deal. (Man, sorry for the run-on sentence!)

While I personally have never had any problems with Phil Spillman, let me assure one and all that I have had some experience at being subjected to the "attentions" of Windy, Zambelli and Peabody.

I was able to blow it off, as I do not respect any of these people, Windy especially, and certainly don't want them for friends.

But now that it is out in the open that they have turned their attentions on PAMPA, are absolutely determined to make huge changes, have no problems whatsoever in spreading around the sort of material Mr. McClain has put forth, some of you are seeing what I have been seeing for years now, although it has gotten even worse over the past few months. Pretty ugly, isn't it?

As to Windy going into spin control, I believe it. I bet now he wishes he had learned to type! Even he can't talk loud enough or long enough or to enough people to deflect things like this.

Gotta love the light of day shining down on those who have proven themselves so deserving...

Dan

P.S. Will some of you who wonder why I continue to feel that John Brodak is being given some very, very bad advice at least now consider my opinion as having some merit?

>
>While TomB and others go around putting forth the totally
>without merit idea that some of the Old Guard are plotting
>to tear down PAMPA, when in actuality they are working
>**within the system,** to get their points across, to get
>their opinons aired, here is a character with a known
>history of trying to tear things down, of working way, way
>outside the system and I take his threat as the Real Deal.
>(Man, sorry for the run-on sentence!)
>

Working within the system: smears on SSF, pages of accusations in Stunt News, and personal letters in my mailbox.

The description of your "character" could fit a lot of people lately. There's plenty of fault on both sides at this point, and it serves little to keep up this discussion.

>
>Working within the system: smears on SSF, pages of
>accusations in Stunt News, and personal letters in my
>mailbox.

I see no examples of same. Your incredible bias is showing. Oh wait, that's not new.
>
>The description of your "character" could fit a lot of
>people lately. There's plenty of fault on both sides at
>this point, and it serves little to keep up this discussion.

That's the way you see it. I do not. But I do not hope to convince you, as it is a lost cause. Pity.

You have inspired me to make a posting, however.

Thanks,

>Many of us are still wondering if a certain PAMPA District
>Director with a repaired knee has apologized to the
>Secretary Treasurer.

How does a man speak this way? Do you not have within you the strength to call the man that you are asking to apologize by his name?
For the life of me I can't understand the "code" system for describing someone that you have a beef with.
Why are you wondering? Just ask him why.

I already did, and he sent an "apologia". He cc 'ed it to one of the insulted.
Chris...

>Many of us are still wondering if a certain PAMPA District Director with a repaired knee has apologized to the Secretary Treasurer.
Tom McClain

Tom:
What is this fascination with apologies? I think it is media driven.
An apology is largely meaningless in that the persons words or deeds exactly reflected his/her position at the time.
Everyone apolgizes. Jake Rocker apologized. Even B1 Bob Dornan apologized for calling Clinton a traitor.
So have many others when targeted by the lefties.
When is someone going to have the cajones to respond to the media clamor with a "you darned right I said it, I'll say it again every day if you like. Unlike you folks I say what I mean and I mean what I say"

>>So have many others when targeted by the lefties<<

Hmm, I think John Rocker was a "leftie". Threw pretty hard too.

>Hmm, I think John Rocker was a "leftie". Threw pretty hard too

Randy:
Very hard-for a couple of years. The whole mess pretty well ended his career and all he did was tell the truth.
Obviously, he should have edited his remarks or considered his audience. The media maggots live for a candid remark that they can turn into controversy and dollars.
It turns out that I spotted John's dad's name in some of the publicity(Jake A Rocker), recalled him from college in GA (he was a TKE, I was Sig Ep) we had a couple of nice visits by mail and phone, catching up and all trying to figure out who was alive, who was dead and who was in prison.
We now exchange Christmas cards.
Later
Jim

>>>So have many others when targeted by the lefties<<
>
>Hmm, I think John Rocker was a "leftie". Threw pretty hard
>too.

So's Randy Johnson!
Bill <><

The difference between Humans and other animal species is generally regarded as the ability to reason. "Higher thinking skills". I am not so sure, sometimes.

>>>>So have many others when targeted by the lefties<<
>>
>>Hmm, I think John Rocker was a "leftie". Threw pretty hard
>>too.
>
>So's Randy Johnson!
>Bill <><
>
>The difference between Humans and other
>animal species is generally regarded as the ability to
>reason. "Higher thinking skills". I am not so sure,
>sometimes.

David Eyskens
Hey Bill thats funny-- Isn't G. Bush a lefty too????David