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Nobler variants

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olivertiger · Oct 25, 2000 11:06 PM

#0 source
LAST EDITED ON Oct-26-00 AT 07:20 PM (EST)

I am assembling as much information as I can about the infamous (this should read famous - thanks Randy!)Nobler for a magazine article that am writing and I am amazed at the number of variants as far as plans offerings go. SSW offers five versions, six if the junior is included.

What I would like to know is what sort of engines have users of this board used in their Noblers. I have seen references to the use of a Fox .19 is this feasible?

If you feel reluctant to clutter up this forum with your responses, please email me your responses to [email protected]. If you are capable of scanning and emailing me the images of your planes, black and white or color I'd very much apperciate it.

Thanks for your time.

olivertiger · Oct 25, 2000 11:12 PM

#1 source
I know that this is very subjective but which of the Nobler versions is deemed to be the 'best flier'

The Kiwi · Oct 26, 2000 12:04 AM

RE: Nobler variants - 3 were George's own #3 source
LAST EDITED ON Oct-26-00 AT 08:14 PM (EST)

This is an upside-down P.S., added via an edit. The fullsize Nobler, in every variety, was more plane than the 19's of that plane's own era might haul - any manufacturer's. There's a lot of talk about modern Schneurle 20's equalling the potential weight-pulling torque of Fox 35's, but I haven't seen one of those in a plane as massive as a Nobler yet.

The very first Nobler was built without much of a plan at all and was down here in Texas when George was asked to write a construction article (he could've suggested it to MAN's editor, but didn't put it that way when telling the story to me). He drew a set of plans for the magazine article that is the official "OTS-qualified" version. It is also actually "version two." But his opinion is that the design was so far ahead of its time that Miske should've omitted it.

The original plane was still flying when Top Flite decided to produce a kit, and asked George for two sets of plans. One was for the kits' builders, another was for Top Flite's own use. Once again, when George drew the plan he didn't have his own actual plane to measure from. He didn't even have the MAN plan set at hand. That became version three.

About 1958, the original plane suffered a total loss crash, but George saved all of the pieces for the next thirty-some-odd years (in a brown paper grocery sack). In the late 1980's, he started on building a replica of his own original, measuring everything from the pieces in the grocery bag. He drew a plan while he was doing this, and there is plenty of documentation about his first plane, although there never was a plan for it until so recently.

It is my understanding that John Brodak's Nobler kit is based on those 1989 or 1990 plans of George's. Besides Aldrich, there have been French versions, a couple of Giesecke versions, and a half-ton more that were thinly disguised clones.

Kiwi

LNeumann · Oct 26, 2000 12:02 AM

#2 source
We have just one full bodied Nobler in our fleet at the moment. It is a Gieseke Nobler and is powered by an OS 35S. We, also, have a Custom Model's Profile Nobler based on the original (but with a foam wing). It has a 35/40 FP for power--modified, of course.

As to the best flying one--my subjective view, of course--I would think it would be the Gieseke version. It has a thicker airfoil and somewhat better proportions. But it also evolved over 15 years--the kit version being based on his '67 ship.

Leonard Neumann

RocketCityJim · Oct 26, 2000 09:35 AM

#4 source
Hmmmm,

Good question. Here's all the variants I can think of that have not already been mentioned.

1. Lou Grondal's (World Champion Version).
2. Jim Silhavy's original Gypsy is a Nobler variant.
3. Bob Gialdini's Olympic MK IV is an admitted Nobler variant.
4. I also believe that the Chizler at least has a Nobler wing as it's basis.
5. My Akromaster also has a Gieseke Nobler wing as it's basis.

I'm sure that this list can be expanded to the N'th degree with some dedicated research.


Rocket City Jim

Randy Ryan · Oct 26, 2000 07:10 PM

#5 source
Hi Tiger,

I'm not an English teach and I don't shpeek it so good but I suggest you look up the definition of "infamous"

Just a good natured poke.

Randy Ryan

Kelvn Heath · Oct 26, 2000 11:30 PM

#6 source
Question along this line: Was the Jr. Nobler something that Top Flite dreamed up or was GMA involved it its design? I have never seen any printed matter in this regard.

The Kiwi · Oct 27, 2000 12:37 AM

RE: Nobler Jr's Provenance#7 source
> Was the Jr. Nobler something that Top Flite
> dreamed up or was GMA involved it(in) its
> design? I have never seen any printed matter
> in this regard.

As often as George & I have B-S'd about Top Flite stuff, I never got around to asking. I do know that he BUILT a couple of them, with the oldest "steel fin" version of a Fox 15 for power. It's my best guess that George BECAME involved before it was ever kitted, whether or not he was responsible for the initial idea.


Kiwi

George Bain · Oct 27, 2000 04:16 AM

RE: Nobler Jr's Provenance#8 source
The Jr. Nobler kit plan says "Designed by George Aldrich".

George

RocketCityJim · Oct 27, 2000 08:24 AM

RE: Nobler Jr's Provenance#9 source
As far as best flying variant goes, here is what I know, I flew my buddy Mike Thompsons Gieseke Nobler, it Flew considerably better than the Stock nobler that I had owned previously. I Built my Akromaster based on this version of the Gieseke Nobler. The Akromaster was a little ahead of it's time in model aerodynamics, having a larger outboard flap and a much larger stab/elevator percentage wise than any other model of the day 23 &1/2 inch Stab Elevator on a 52" Span airplane. The Akromaster flew better than the Nobler or the Gieseke Nobler primarily because of the Stab/Elevator and the relatively large simi-scale vertical fin and rudder combination. Unfortunately the plane was lost when I tried to fly it after about 3 years between flights and the engine got some gunk in it and it crashed in the wingover at Concord, CA in May or June of 1973.

Rocket City Jim

geoffgg · Oct 31, 2000 04:25 AM

RE: Nobler Jr's Provenance#10 source
Kiwi, as you suggested, my desk research suggests that a modern Schneurle 20 is a bit light on for a Nobler. However, Pat Johnston is pretty keen on his lightweight Nobler ('57 Green Box Version built lighter) powered by an OS 25--until he pulled the outboard wing off by landing it into his field box, that is.

Cheers, Geoff

Brett Buck · Nov 26, 2000 05:51 AM

RE: Nobler Jr's Provenance#19 source
>Kiwi, as you suggested, my desk
>research suggests that a modern
>Schneurle 20 is a bit
>light on for a Nobler.
> However, Pat Johnston is
>pretty keen on his lightweight
>Nobler ('57 Green Box Version
>built lighter) powered by an
>OS 25--until he pulled the
>outboard wing off by landing
>it into his field box,
>that is.

I saw Pat's Nobler fly pre-incident at the the NWR this year, and it was plenty powerful. Too much power, in fact - it was *way* faster than it needed to be with a 10-5. A 10-4 would have been more appropriate. It was lighter than a original kit, but it wasn't a feather - I guess that it was right around 40 oz., which is well within the 20's capability.

Brett

Jim T. · Oct 31, 2000 09:35 AM

#11 source
Don't forget the RC Nobler kitted (I think) by Topflite. I also recall seeing a glass-fuselage, foam wing kit in some products review section years ago. Don't know if it ever actually came on the market.

Jim

olivertiger · Oct 31, 2000 05:09 PM

#12 source
LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-00 AT 05:09 PM (EST)

I have tracked down a web page covering the conversion of an R.C Nobler to electric.

The URL of the wen site is:

http://www.slkelectronics.com/nobler/nobler1.htm

It's an interesting read.

olivertiger · Oct 31, 2000 05:13 PM

#13 source
I'm still looking for photograhs and scans of photographs of Noblers. there is a nice collection at the Smithsonian site at:
http://www.airspacemag.com/asm/mag/supp/fm00/Noblers.html

olivertiger · Nov 25, 2000 07:42 AM

#14 source
i have just acquired a Pro Noble kit. I think it's a replica kit of a Green Box Nobler. Can Anyone confirm this?

Does the company that produced the kit still exist?

Do/did they produce any other replicas?

Regards

Vernon

The Kiwi · Nov 25, 2000 07:51 AM

#15 source
If you are saying that the only company name on it is "Pro," it's something outside of my own experience.

Windy Urtnowski still uses the term "Pro Stunt" sometimes, however. But I don't recall him selling any Nobler kits, although he certainly might have done so.


Kiwi

olivertiger · Nov 25, 2000 08:20 AM

#16 source
I have had a rummage through the box. The plans are blue prints but the title box at the bottom right hand corner which normally details the manufacturer and draftsman has been over printed with Pro Nobler.

A further slip of paper identifies the Manufacturer as

Classic Air Models Co. Fruitland Park, Florida

Currell · Nov 26, 2000 02:13 AM

#17 source
I have half built T-Bird from the same "company". That says it all. Decent wood, but many parts just...didn't...quite...fit.

Currell

olivertiger · Nov 26, 2000 03:06 AM

#18 source
Oh dear that does not bode well. The box is filled with a gazillion neatly cut parts in nice quality balsa and I thought that they would be a shortcut to nicely built plane to accompany a Brodak Nobler

Does the company still exist?

Currell · Nov 26, 2000 03:23 PM

#20 source
To the best of my knowledge, no.

But don't let me discourage you. Build it.

Currell

olivertiger · Nov 26, 2000 03:55 PM

#21 source
I'm going to give it a go if only to experience a different 'build' and geometry. The turtle deck is moulded balsa (I have to mould it)as opposed to hollowed out block. It makes me want to weep everytime I convert large (and usually expensive) blocks of balsa into balsa dust.

Michaelb · Nov 27, 2000 01:43 PM

#22 source
If it's the same kit as the one I have, it's a kit of the magazine Nobler plans. I haven't built it yet, myself. Since I really wanted a "Green Box" Nobler, it may be awhile before it's built.

olivertiger · Nov 27, 2000 02:23 PM

#23 source
By magazine plans, do you mean MAN? The kit plans are blue prints and some notable departures from the Brodak Nobler is an all built up tail section. Ractangular spars top and bottom of the ribs and rectangular cut out in the fuselage sides. There is also a cutting plan for a 9' by 26" pieke of Monokote. There is also a fin which runs the full length of the the turtle deck.

Are these the plans that you have?

Cheers

Michaelb · Nov 27, 2000 04:19 PM

#24 source
This sounds like they put out two different kits The rudder and stab/elevator in my kit are built up from pieces, but it is definitely the MAN version. The plans are blueprints. Came with a copy of the 2nd half of the construction article.

RocketCityJim · Nov 27, 2000 05:36 PM

#25 source
All,

The Green Box Nobler is now available from RSM Models. I don't know if it's constructed exactly like the Top Flight kit, or it has been updated to a more modern construction.

Rocket City Jim