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Molded Leading Edge PLanking

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mpa · Apr 02, 2002 10:58 PM

#0 source
I want to mold leading edge planking for my new sport/stunt plane. This is a new construction method for me and I have a couple questions. The planking section is tapered 1 inch in the 24 inch half span (in other words, there is a one inch sweep back) and the spar is perpendicular to the root chord. My first question is, should I orient the grain of the planking parallel to the leading edge or parallel to the spar? Why?
Second, I'll be using 1/16 inch 6 lb A-grain wood, covering will be polyspan/dope; what rib spacing will give adequate support to the leading edge planking?
Thanks very much for your advice.
Derek Moran

Ted Fancher · Apr 03, 2002 12:30 AM

#1 source
>I want to mold leading edge
>planking for my new sport/stunt
>plane. This is a new
>construction method for me and
>I have a couple questions.
> The planking section is
>tapered 1 inch in the
>24 inch half span (in
>other words, there is a
>one inch sweep back) and
>the spar is perpendicular to
>the root chord. My
>first question is, should I
>orient the grain of the
>planking parallel to the leading
>edge or parallel to the
>spar? Why?
>Second, I'll be using 1/16 inch
>6 lb A-grain wood, covering
>will be polyspan/dope; what
>rib spacing will give adequate
>support to the leading edge
>planking?
>Thanks very much for your advice.
>
>Derek Moran


Derek,

Good for you for trying out this great method of sheeting a wing. The advantages are many and the work involved...although seeming to be a lot...is not much more than the conventional methods and the finished product is much superior.

The basic answer to your question is that the grain should be parallel to the leading edge. Doing so simplifies the molding process and is less apt to result in a molded sheet with a twist.

The best solution and one I routinely use when sheeting leading edges which require more than a single three inch sheet of balsa is to us three pieces glued into a single sheet for molding. A middle piece which molds over the more acute radii of the leading edge itself and an additional sheet for the remainder of both the top and bottom.

The central piece is that which wraps around the leading edge itself. This is always A grain and parallel to the leading edge. The width of this piece depends on the radius of the leading edge. If it's sharp it need only be an inch or so and if blunt as much as three inches might be preferable.

Attached to this "central" leading edge piece will be a top and bottom sheet whose grain is parallel to the spar. Because these sheets need not mold over a significant radius the grain direction is less important for molding purposes and can thus be aligned so as to obtain greater rigidity. It is also possible to use B grain or even somewhat flexible C grain for these pieces which will further enhance the strength of the final product.

If you choose to use "variable" grain method such as this two inch spacing is more than adequate between ribs. Two and a half is probably just fine. If the entire leading edge sheet is soft A grain you might want to use two inches as the maximum and could consider somewhat closer spacing especially if you intend to use a high shrink dope which could cause some dipping between the ribs.

Ted

captcurt · Apr 03, 2002 06:09 AM

#2 source
More questions on this method please:

I am guessing that with this method there is no LE solid piece like the diamond or no builtup pc. like Morris' lincoln log method. Is this correct?

If so, what method do you use to jig the LE?? I could slot the ribs just for the fixture I suppose and remove it prior to applying the sheet molding, or just leave it in?

Thanks,

Curt

Tim McTigue · Apr 03, 2002 06:39 AM

#3 source
Also, it'd be great if someone could post a pic or two to illustrate. This sounds neat. Any specific model this applies to, or is this a "scratch-build" method?

Tim

Tim

MAAC 65703

Larry Cunningham · Apr 03, 2002 06:58 AM

#4 source
LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-02 AT 12:30 PM (CST)

[photo not recovered: 3cab4a0e02ec6288.jpg]

(The above image was uploaded to the PAMPA FTP site from one of our South American friends..)

Molded LEs are the cat's meow. Once you have the mold (mine is foam on a strip of plywood), and master the technique of joining three sheets, the rest is trivial.

L.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

Tim McTigue · Apr 03, 2002 04:38 PM

#6 source
Wow, now that is SOMEthing! Thanks for the pic. Obviously something I'll have to try someday...

Tim

Tim

MAAC 65703

Mark Mitchell · Apr 09, 2002 03:19 PM

#13 source
If I'm remembering correctly this was an article by Martin Sepulveda. I think he said that he molded his LE shell directly on the ribs with the wing in a jig. What are the drawbacks to doing this as opposed to using a foam or balsa buck?---Mark

DMoon · Apr 03, 2002 09:08 AM

#5 source
Ted,

I am always looking at wing construction methods. Could you please explain how you build your wing for your latest purple plane? I guess what I really want to know is how you Jig it up. What is the method of jiging the wing? Do you use a leading edge spar or not?

I just built a lost foam wing. Best method I have tried so far. I built another one to make a 4s plane around. I used laser cut ribs on that one. Wow it was awesome and easy and fun to build that wing in one evening. Only thing I dont like about it is I have to have a new cradle for each type of wing.

Just curious about how you jig it up.

DMoon

Doug Moon

Ted · Apr 03, 2002 08:45 PM

#7 source
>Ted,
>
>I am always looking at wing
>construction methods. Could you
>please explain how you build
>your wing for your latest
>purple plane? I guess
>what I really want to
>know is how you Jig
>it up. What is
>the method of jiging the
>wing? Do you use
>a leading edge spar or
>not?
>
>I just built a lost foam
>wing. Best method I
>have tried so far.
>I built another one to
>make a 4s plane around.
> I used laser cut
>ribs on that one.
>Wow it was awesome and
>easy and fun to build
>that wing in one evening.
> Only thing I dont
>like about it is I
>have to have a new
>cradle for each type of
>wing.
>
>Just curious about how you jig
>it up.
>
>DMoon


Hi Doug,

Although I've recently built several wings using the lost foam system the one on the purple pond scum ship was built on an adjusto-jig. Although the lost foam system has a lot of advantages (in particular the ability to make accurate ribs at pretty much random a selection of angles!) it isn't as handy to build on as the suspended jigging of the adjusto-jig. I like the fact that by rotating the jig I can work on any part of the wing from the same standing position. I routinely work on the leading edge components for a while and then rotate to work on the back end while glue or whatever dries on the front. It is a very accurate system but probably not quite as good as the lost foam system. I'm continually adjusting the fixture before, during and after each project. Not a big deal but not as dead nuts as Bobby's foam system on a good flat building board.

Ted

Al Rabe · Apr 03, 2002 09:51 PM

#8 source
LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-02 AT 09:54 PM (CST)

Derek,
I have made a few wings with molded leading edges. The above info is good. To that I would add that I think 1/16" is too thin. Personaly, I use .077 (5/64") or 3/32". I mold around a foam buck with plain old strips of bedsheet. I don't use amonia, just plain ole' bath water. Rib spacing is about 2 1/4". I don't like hollow leading edges , so I stick a bit of 1/16" x 1/4" between ribs at the leading edge to form a "T" section when the mold is glued on. I do this at least as far out as anyone is likely to hold my airplane.
To get straight molds, I wrap the balsa first, then wrap again over aluminum angle to insure straightness.

[photo not recovered: 3cabcb400efba18a.jpg]


To insure a straight wing, I build on 3/8" x .055 x 6' aluninum jig tubes. When ready to sheet the leading edge, pull the molded leading edge tightly to the wing and secure it with masking tape then glue it with CA or Tightbond, running it down the intersection of rib and molded sheeting. Glue only when the wing is securely tied down to a jig.

[photo not recovered: 3cabccb5106ebd94.jpg]

Hope this helps.
Al
P.S. Don't wrap too tight. It isn't necessary and excessively tight wrapping will crush your foam buck.
A.R.

LNeumann · Apr 03, 2002 10:23 PM

#9 source

>
>Derek,
>I have made a few wings
>with molded leading edges.
>The above info is good.
> To that I would
>add that I think 1/16"
>is too thin. Personaly,
>I use .077 (5/64") or 3/32"... Al.

If you are concerned that 1/16 is too thin, try to layers of 1/32. It is the same thickness, but much easier to mold, and when two layers are glued together it adds tremendous strength, even though the grain is running in essentially the same direction. Matt does this with his turtle decks, etc. (as well as leading edge sheeting) and doesn't use formers in the turtle decks. Doesn't need them.

Leonard Neumann

Leonard Neumann

Larry Cunningham · Apr 04, 2002 07:01 AM

#10 source
Absolutely. Two thinner layers laminated work much better for molded top and bottom blocks. After they are molded, you can peel off the top layer, add just the thinnest coat of epoxy and put them back on the mold to cure. Very little weight is added, and the strength improvement is great.

L.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

Al Rabe · Apr 04, 2002 09:50 AM

#11 source
Derek,
Why consider a molded leading edge? It sure isn't the method I'd use for a sport ship. Molding leading edges involves first having a buck made which can cost maybe $40 from a pro. Then you must use grain select wood which also costs more if you mail order your wood. Third, molded leading edges should only be installed if the wing is held ridigly in some kind of jig, either tubes like mine, or lost foam cradles. Priced lost foam components lately? Personaly, I'd recommend that you stick with the traditional 1/4" sq. leading edge and sheet with 3/32" "A" grain moistened on the outside as you install it. I am very seriously considering returning to this method as I really don't like leading edges with no structure inside. It goes without saying, you should always use a jig of some kind. I like mine which is similar to Ted's Adjusto jig. They will accept any shape of rib and laser cut ribs are becomming more available and should be cheaper than some other methods. 3/8" aluninum tubbing 12' (two 6'ers) will set you back about 24$ but the cost will be spread over the many airplanes you will build on them.
Al

mpa · Apr 04, 2002 09:16 PM

#12 source
Thanks, everyone, for responding to my question. I am very grateful for your advice.
Al, a quick description may help you understand what I'm up to. I'm building a sport/stunt design inspired by the Flapless thread http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/998.html from a few months ago. The plane will have a 54 inch span, 480 sq inch area, OS .25FP power, with moments and ratios suggested by Ted and Brett.
Weight is an important concern; I'm aiming for 28 ounces. To achieve that I have designed a minimalist structure. The fuselage is built up, with the engine radial mounted, uncowled. The wing is reminiscent of the Eastern European combat models without the foam leading edge. The landing gear will be molded unidirectional CF and the tank will be a 4 oz poly bottle with a Tettra bladder and cast RTV cap. Styling is Flite Streak-ish.
The wing will be built around a full depth 3/32 sheet spar. The spar center section will be reinforced with 1/32 ply, front and rear. The structure ahead of the spar will consist of half ribs 2.4 inches OC cemented to the spar, a single 1/8 sq LE stringer and the molded sheeting. This assembly will be fixtured to the building glass and the trailing edge structure added, similar to what's shown in this link: http://home.wxs.nl/~wakke007/bouwen/bouwen7.htm.
The airfoil profile behind the spar will be straight, without convexity. There will be ribs 4.8 inches OC with a 3/16 sq spruce TE. Gussets will reinforce the rib-TE joint.
I happened to have an old set of Gotcha 500 cores which I canibalized for the LE mold and LE half rib patterns.
Thanks again for your help.
Derek Moran