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Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story

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grzly23 · May 15, 2002 06:46 AM

Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#0 source
LAST EDITED ON May-15-02 AT 06:53 AM (CST)

Here is a bit of history I bet you didn't know.....Makes you think what substance (little?) the current Hollywood "Stars" and politicians have compared to a generation ago. .
Dialog From a Tonight Show ... Johnny Carson ...
His guest was Lee Marvin.

[photo not recovered: 3ce25a2a06e59ea3.jpg]

Johnny said, "Lee, I'll bet a lot of people are unaware that you were a
Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima ... and that during the course
of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were severely wounded."

And you know how Lee was ...
"Yeah, yeah ... I got shot square in the ass and they gave me the cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi ...
Bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin' shot hauling you down.
But Johnny at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew ... We both got the Cross the same day but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison.
The dumb bastard actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move forward and get the hell off the ! beach. That Sergeant and I have been life long friends.
"When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on the litter ...
"Where'd they get you Lee?"... "Well Bob ... if you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse."....."

Johnny, I'm not lying ...Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man I ever Knew...

...Sergeant Bob Keeshan ...

[photo not recovered: 3ce25a51072fb916.jpg]

You and the world only know him as Captain Kangaroo."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us." George Orwell

God Bless America and the fact we have men such as these willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Tom McClain

peabody · May 15, 2002 07:01 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#1 source

Peabody

T.Durrill · May 15, 2002 07:59 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story/And Other Stories....#2 source
grzly23 also supposedly believes that UFO's are nonsense....Maybe he can explain the following (shouldn't be hard for an old Phantom driver):

So,if they do not exist, EXPLAIN THIS!


THE DIA REPORT (Defense Intelligence Agency)

The following is from a 3-page message, released on August 31, 1977, via the Defense Intelligence Agency:

This report forwards information concerning the sighting of a UFO in Iran on 19 September 1976.

A. At about 1230 A.M. on 19 Sep.76 the (deleted) received four telephone calls from citizens living in the Shemiran area of Tehran saying that they had seen strange objects in the sky. Some reported a kind of bird-like object while others reported a helicopter with a light on. There were no helicopters airborne at that time.

After he told the citizens it was only stars and had talked to Mehrabad Tower, he decided to look for himself. He noticed an object in the sky similar to a star bigger and brighter. He decided to scramble an F-4 from Shahrokhi AFB to investigate.

B. At 0130 hrs on the 19th the F-4 took off and proceeded to a point about 40 NM north of Tehran. Due to its brilliance, the object was easily visible from 70 miles away. As the F-4 approached a range of 25 NM, he lost all instrumentation and communications (UHF and intercom). He broke off the intercept and headed back to Shahrokhi. When the F-4 turned away from the object and apparently was no longer a threat to it, the aircraft regained all instrumentation and communications. At 0140 hrs a second F-4 was launched. The backseater acquired a radar lock on at 27 NM 12 o'clock high position with the VC (rate of closure) at 150 NMPH. As the range decreased to 25 NM the object moved away at a speed that was visible on the radar scope and stayed at 25 NM.

C. The size of the radar return was comparable to that of a 707 tanker. The visual size of the object was difficult to discern because of its intense brilliance. The light that it gave off was that of flashing strobe lights arranged in a rectangular pattern and alternating blue, green, red, and orange in color. The sequence of the lights was so fast that all the colors could be seen at once. The object and the pursuing F-4 continued on a course to the south of Tehran when another brightly lighted object, estimated to be one-half to one-third the apparent size of the moon, came out of the original object. This second object headed straight toward the F-4 at a very fast rate of speed. The pilot attempted to fire an AIM-9 missile at the object but at that instant his weapons control panel went off and he lost all communications (UHF and interphone). At this point the pilot initiated a turn and negative G dive to get away. As he turned the object fell in trail at what appeared to be about 3-4 NM. As he continued in his turn away from the primary object the second object went to the inside of his turn then returned to the primary object for a perfect rejoin.

D. Shortly after the second object joined up with the primary object another object appeared to come out of the other side of the primary object going straight down at a great rate of speed. The F-4 crew had regained communications and the weapons control panel and watched the object approach the ground anticipating a large explosion. This object appeared to come to rest gently on the earth and cast a very bright light over an area of about 2-3 kilometers. The crew descended from their altitude of 25,000 to 15,000 and continued to observe and mark the object's position. They had some difficulty in adjusting their night visibility for landing, so after orbiting Mehrabad a few times they went out for a straight in landing. There was a lot of interference on the UHF and each time they passed through a mag. bearing of 150 degrees from Mehrabad they lost their communications (UHF and interphone) and the INS fluctuated from 30 degrees to 50 degrees. The one civil airliner that was approaching Mehrabad during this same time experienced communications failure in the same vicinity (Kilo Zulu) but did not report seeing anything. While the F-4 was on a long final approach the crew noticed another cylinder-shaped object (about the size of a T-bird at 10 NM) with bright steady lights on each end and a flasher in the middle. When queried the tower stated there was no other known traffic in the area. During the time that the object passed over the F-4 the tower did not have a visual on it but picked it up after the pilot told them to look between the mountains and the refinery.

E. During daylight the F-4 crew was taken out to the area in a helicopterwhere the object apparently had landed. Nothing was noticed at the spot where they thought the object landed (a dry lake bed) but as they circled off to the west of the area they picked up a very noticeable beeper signal. At the point where the return was the loudest was a small house with a garden. They landed and asked the people within if they had noticed anything strange last night. The people talked about a loud noise and a very bright light like lightning. The aircraft and area where the object is believed to have landed are being checked for possible radiation.

More information will be forwarded when it becomes available.

Equally as fascinating as the report itself was a form attached to the basic information given in the message. Titled, "Defense Information Report Evaluation," it was an assessment of the quality of the Iran sighting details as determined by the Defense Intelligence Agency, a military version of the CIA which deals with foreign military intelligence. The form indicated in checked boxes that the reliability of information was "Confirmed by other sources," that the value of information was "High (Unique, Timely, and of Major Significance)," and that the utility of information was "Potentially Useful." The form added in the "Remarks" section:

An outstanding report. This case is a classic which meets all the criteria necessary for a valid study of the UFO phenomenon:

a) The object was seen by multiple witnesses from different locations (i.e., Shamiran, Mehrabad, and the dry lake bed) and viewpoints (both airborne and from the ground).

b) The credibility of many of the witnesses was high (an Air Force general, qualified aircrews, and experienced tower operators).

c) Visual sightings were confirmed by radar.

d) Similar electromagnetic effects (EME) were reported by three separate aircraft.

e) There were physiological effects on some crew members (i.e., loss of night vision due to the brightness of the object).

f) An inordinate amount of maneuverability was displayed by the UFOs.

Judging from the comments by the DIA, the Iranian UFO chase was un doubtedly one of the premier UFO encounters in the history of the subject. A highly advanced vehicle, performing well beyond our present-day capabilities, created fits for the American-equipped Iranian Air Force. That the blackouts of the missile firing control panel, just before the pilot was about to launch his air-to-air missile, could be attributed to a mechanical fault seems beyond what sheer odds would allow. That an instrumentation blackout should occur on two separate F-4 aircraft as they were chasing a UFO is even more unlikely. The incidents described are such that to merely dismiss the report as unsupportive of UFO reality, which we anticipate will happen from some quarters, borders on the absurd.
Reliable sources within the government have told us that the Iranian case file was about one and a half inches thick, yet absolutely no admission to having this file has come from any government agency with a possible connection to the case.

EXPLAIN PLEASE!

Jim P · May 15, 2002 08:26 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#3 source
In the mid 1960's I worked appraising risks for life insurance for a large company in Texas that specialized in high risk, high profile individuals. One of these was Lee Marvin. Our information indicated that he was, in fact wounded in the buttocks during the invasion of Saipan(sp?). There was no mention of a Navy Cross or other medals(obviously he was awarded a purple heart) though this was not germane to the risk and could have been overlooked.
Saipan or Iwo Jima, Navy Cross or not, he did his job for his country and I sure wish more of todays Hollywood sparklies were more like him.
Of particular note, Alec Baldwin, who has still not left the country as promised, played Jimmy Dolittle in Pearl Harbor. General Dolittle must be spinning in his grave like a top.

And now, back to CL.

Currell · May 15, 2002 08:41 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#4 source
Jim, it's called Acting. Liberals can play arch conservatives, right wingers can play Lefties. Big deal. In fact, if anything, the acting is even more impressive when it is pulled off well under such circumstances. Bogart was very left of center, but he could convince you in just about any role.

And if you did not like Mr. Baldwin's portrayal, remember that he is largely captive to the script that is handed him. Personally, I was not impressed one way or the other by Baldwin's portrayal.

Now, Kate Beckinsale, that's another story.

As an aside, one thing I didn't like about the movie was the portrayal of the Tokyo Raid. They showed the radio traffic of the bombing for an audience to listen to over a loudspeaker in real time (wasn't the nurse in the audience, even?) back at Pearl. Don't think so...

Currell

Jim P · May 15, 2002 09:10 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#5 source
Currell
My observation was more that a more believable actor(Tom Sellek is maybe too tall) should have been chosen to play the then Col. Dolittle but I guess that's Hollywood. Baldwin's portrayal was pretty indifferent.
Kate was/is extremely nice but the real time radio, in the clear, was as unbeliveable as the low level, fast forward speed dogfights.
For realism, try "Enemy at the Gates". Authentic weaponry, historically close, though I doubt Ed Harris' rank(light Col?), even as chief of the sniper school would have entitled him to his perks. In fact any perks, regardless of rank were probably pretty rare at Stalingrad. Even Von Paulus didn't look too well fed.

grzly23 · May 15, 2002 09:26 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#6 source
I checked the Truth or Fiction Website as recommended by Peabody and guess I got suckered by this as well as some of my other friends. For that I humbly apologize and ask forgiveness. I will try to make sure this stuff does not get by me again.

I still do not believe in UFOs. I fail to see the similarity between the two. One is a simple mistake on my part and the other is wishful thinking.

Tom McClain

Steve Fitton · May 15, 2002 10:06 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#7 source
No apologies needed, Col,

It is perhaps most unfortunate that people sit around and fabricate these things, Lee Marvin's record is fine as is. The point is, he Served. Calling attention to servicemen on the occasion of this weekends Armed Forces day seems appropriate to me. Lee Marvin has plenty of heroes to keep him company where he is today...

During my military school days Col Jack Broughton was one of my heroes, I loved his books Thud Ridge and Going Downtown. I wanted to invite him to school to speak (assuming he was still alive at the time) but the AF department took a dim view on his court-martial. I don't know if the books were embellished or not, but he had some hair raising experiences that were inspirational to a young cadet.

As far as the UFO's, I believe everybody fought this out on the RC online forum about a year ago. I'll keep my aliens confined to the X-Files and UFO's to Sassy Saucers.

Steve

Godzilla · May 15, 2002 12:28 PM

The Captain#8 source
I thought that Capt. Kangaroo was a little light in the loafers to be charging up a beach.

A heavy lisp does not really inspire a high body count.

"Let's get 'em girls!" (heavy lisp, wrist limp)

Of course, Audey Murphy didn't really look the part, and I guess he was a one man slaughterhouse. There has never been a movie made that really portrayed Murphy's bravery as it really happened. It was just too bloody for movies of the day.

Bradley Walker
Politically Incorrect and hates Bill Moyer
Likes Jimmy Kimmel and "girls on trampolines"

Nils · May 15, 2002 12:35 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#9 source
I heard somewhere that Bob Keeshan was also Clarabelle the Clown on the Howdy Doody Show before he was Capt. Kangaroo. T/F?

Nils

Steve Fitton · May 15, 2002 12:49 PM

RE: The Captain#10 source
I heard the Captain was an Alternative Lifestyle type person. I never did watch his show, but my brother liked it.

The Audie Murphy flick wasn't too bad for its day, given the way Hollywood was. I heard Murphy did public service announcements for some sort of Civilian Marksmanship or other Army type program, but thats before my time. He allegedly hinted that real warfare was rougher than his movies and that people better be prepared.

As far as the "girls on trampolines" show, the Amelia Earhart skit was the best......


Steve

Currell · May 15, 2002 01:46 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#11 source
Nils: You are correct.

And do you know why Princess Summerfallwinterspring suddenly disappeared from the show?

Myself, I was a Flubadub fan. Figures, right?

Bonus question: Name Phineas T. Bluster's absent minded brother.

Currell (still in the Peanut Gallery, I'm afraid)

Currell · May 15, 2002 01:47 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#12 source
Agree with Steve. The point is, is that both guys served, and Marvin definitely saw some action. Currell

grzly23 · May 15, 2002 01:56 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#13 source
I will give you a real one for all of you to feel good about Ann-Margaret. Enjoy.

"From a Viet Nam veterans' wife Richard, (my husband), never really talked a lot about his time in Viet Nam other than he had been shot by a sniper. However, he had a rather grainy, 8 x 10 black & white photo he had taken at a USO show of Ann Margaret with Bob Hope in the background that was one of his treasures.
A few years ago, Ann Margaret was doing a book signing at a local bookstore. Richard wanted to see if he could get her to sign the treasured photo so he arrived at the bookstore at 12 o'clock for the 7:30 signing. When I got there after work, the line went all the way around the bookstore, circled the parking lot, and disappeared behind a parking garage.

Before her appearance, bookstore employees announced that she would sign only her book and no memorabilia would be permitted. Richard was disappointed, but wanted to show her the photo and let her know how much those shows meant to lonely GI's so far from home.

Ann Margaret came out looking as beautiful as ever and, as 2nd in line, it was soon Richard's turn. He presented the book for her signature and then took out the photo. When he did, there were many shouts from the employees that she would not sign it. Richard said, "I understand. I just wanted her to see it".

She took one look at the photo, tears welled up in her eyes and she said, "This is one of my gentlemen from Viet Nam and I most certainly will sign his photo. I know what these men did for their country and I always have time for "my gentlemen". With that, she pulled Richard across the table and planted a big kiss on him. She then made quite a to do about the bravery of the young men she met over the years, how much she admired them, and how much she appreciated them. There weren't too many dry eyes among those close enough to hear. She then posed for pictures and acted as if he was the only one there.

Later at dinner, Richard was very quiet. When I asked if he'd like to talk about it, my big strong husband broke down in tears. "That's the first time anyone ever thanked me for my time in the Army", he said.

Richard, like many others, came home to people who spit on him and shouted ugly things at him. That night was a turning point for him. He walked a little straighter and, for the first time in years, was proud to have been a Vet. I'll never forget Ann Margaret for her graciousness and how much that small act of kindness meant to my husband. I now make it a point to say Thank You to every person I come across who served in our Armed Forces. Freedom does not come cheap and I am grateful for all those who have served their country.

If you'd like to pass on this story, feel free to do so. Perhaps it will help others to become aware of how important it is to acknowledge the contribution our service people make."

Tom McClain

richardhfcl · May 15, 2002 04:27 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#14 source
Wasn't that Bozo that he played on Bozo's Circus out of Chicago?

T.Durrill · May 15, 2002 05:29 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#15 source
Come on Tom, that comment does not explain the facts above. Are the facts getting in the way of being doubtful that that this is a real phenomena?.....TD

grzly23 · May 15, 2002 07:17 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#16 source
Mr. Durrill,

You are wasting your time. This is a dead issue, so if you wish to talk CL stunt with me I would be glad to. I would even discuss Hilary Clinton's chances to become President of the United States. But, your issue is of no interest to me.

Tom McClain

T.Durrill · May 16, 2002 06:35 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#17 source
Tom,
Your attitude is what is interesting to me! ...... TD

Al Knight · May 16, 2002 10:13 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#18 source
Few if any people are aware that Talk Radio bad-boy Howard Stern is a twice decorated Army LERP who has 35 verified kills in Viet Nam. While serving in the same unit as Rich Peabody, Stern became famous for his "Lone-Wolf" technique of stalking the enemy nude and painted head to toe in camo makeup with only a Cub Scout penknife hidden between his buttcheeks. Howard, ever modest about his wartime prowess as a stealthy assassin, regards his record as "Something I had to do." Once wounded by a twelve year old female combatant in a VC tunnel, Stern was airlifted from the hot-zone by a scout ship dispatched by a Starcruiser from planet Meep-Zorp Nine and brought to Las Vegas for R&R where he partied with Sammy Davis, Elvis and the Easter Bunny.

grzly23 · May 16, 2002 01:18 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#19 source
Al,

Truth is stranger than fiction. Tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Tom McClain

grzly23 · May 16, 2002 01:19 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#20 source
Mr. Durrill,

Your words and actions are very tiresome. Please get into another line of work.

Tom McClain

T.Durrill · May 16, 2002 02:40 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#21 source
Remember Tom,

"NO MYSTERY IS CLOSED TO AN OPEN MIND!"


T.Durrill

DesignMan · May 16, 2002 06:02 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#22 source
Gawrsh, I never knowed all thet thar!

Jim P · May 16, 2002 09:33 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#23 source
Laugh if you like but UFO's are real! I had one trying to land just the other evening in the back pasture. I opened up on it with the trusty 06 but it was able to fly off. If anyone finds a crashed UFO full of 30 caliber holes please return it to me so I can sell it to the trash mags.
Thanks
Jim

Al_Knight · May 17, 2002 01:29 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#24 source
Jim - Sorry, but you better delete that last one! That was a garrishly painted Luscomb with engine trouble and that slug lodged in the pilot's gluteus! I won't tell!

Al

Jim P · May 17, 2002 09:08 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#25 source
A Luscombe huh? Boy it sure looked like a UFO and I thought I had bagged it fair and square. I'll keep watching and maybe I'll get the real thing next week.

T.Durrill · May 23, 2002 09:57 PM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#26 source
More for UFO skeptics:


These debunkers seem to employ four major rules:

1. What the public doesn't know, we certainly won't tell them. The largest official USAF UFO study isn't even mentioned in twelve anti-UFO books, though every one of those books' authors was aware of it.

2. Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.

3. If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is easier.

4. Do one's research by proclamation rather than investigation. It is much easier, and nobody will know the difference anyway.

NUMBER 4. IS, OF COURSE, QUITE WRONG!

........T.Durrill

jet jock · May 24, 2002 12:40 AM

RE: Real Heroes, The Rest of the Story#27 source
The real heroes are the ones who never came back.