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ST G15 and G20/15

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 19 of 19 known posts recovered

hothandle · May 10, 2006 05:17 PM

#0 source

Did Peter Chinn or someone else ever write any articles on how these two engines performed?

Hothandle

locktite401 · May 10, 2006 06:57 PM

#1 source
LAST EDITED ON May-10-06 AT 07:07 PM (CST)
 
>
>
>Did Peter Chinn or someone else ever write any articles on
>how these two engines performed?

I'm sure that "the Aeromodeller" would have published reports on these. I'll have a look in my copies from the early to mid 60's next time I find them. I did check out Tony Enmore's engine test web page at:

Engine tests: http://www.the.elmores.btinternet.co.uk/engine_tests/_cat001.html


But most of it doesn't seem to be there anymore! Must have pruned it to save space. Perhaps if you email him directly he may have them.
Try: [email protected]

regards Ray

greggles · May 10, 2006 09:35 PM

#2 source
G'day Hot,

According to Ron's Model Engineering site, the G15 was tested by Peter Chinn as follows:
Diesel . April 1969 Aeromodeller
Glow . March 1975 Aero...

The G20 was the subject of many tests by many writers.

See the list at http://modelenginenews.org/index.html

Hope yo u get the ones you're after.

Greg

ghost123uk · May 11, 2006 05:34 AM

#3 source
I do not have any actual figures but...

From a user of both types, I can tell you that whilst the G15 is a nice, smooth, easy starting motor, the G20 is more powerfull, especially with the big venturi running on pressure. I alway find the G20 a bit of a s0d to start though !!

Always looking for C/L flying buddies in the N.W. - UK - mail me ! - [email protected]

ama21835 · May 11, 2006 06:00 AM

G15 and G21/35#4 source
LAST EDITED ON May-11-06 AT 06:33 AM (CST)
 
I owned and used about six ST G15's. Like other ST products, there were ongoing design changes and no two were alike.

I really only liked two of my six engines. The other four were an ongoing struggle to operate in a satisfactory manner.

One dilema was the RPM. You had to rev them high to get a smooth run. But the main bearing fell apart at high RPM and I could not find an upgrade that fit. Once the bearing failed, you needed another whole engine, which was available from Cox.
-------------------------
G21/35's also changed a lot, but the good/bad mix was more like 8/2 on the plus side.
-------------------
G20/15's were much more popular in Europe, but seldom seen in the United States. I assume because World Engines decided to import the G15.

locktite401 · May 11, 2006 06:41 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#5 source
>I owned and used about six ST G15's. Like other ST
>products, there were ongoing design changes and no two were
>alike.
>
>I really only liked two of my six engines. The other four
>were an ongoing struggle to operate in a satisfactory
>manner.
>
>One dilema was the RPM. You had to rev them high to get a
>smooth run. But the main bearing fell apart at high RPM and
>I could not find an upgrade that fit. Once the bearing
>failed, you needed another whole engine, which was available
>from Cox.
>-------------------------
>G21/35's also changed a lot, but the good/bad mix was more
>like 8/2 on the plus side.

I have happier memories of both motors. A friend of mine flew FAI speed when it first appeared as an event during the early/mid 1960's and I bought in turn from him, his G20 and then G15 as he upgraded. Used the motors in .15 combat models. Both were very happy on a Tornado 7x4 with about 10% nitro on crankcase pressure. No bearing problems, but metric replacements were readilly available here in Oz. I still have the G15 somewhere in bits, but I also now have a .15 G20/15D (diesel) which is a real powerhouse.

regards Ray

ghost123uk · May 11, 2006 06:44 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#6 source

@ Hothandle

Is it the Diesel or Glow versions you are interested in ?

I was reffering to Diesels in my reply above.

Thinking about it, did they make a G15 Glow motor ?

Always looking for C/L flying buddies in the N.W. - UK - mail me ! - [email protected]

hothandle · May 11, 2006 08:30 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#7 source
LAST EDITED ON May-11-06 AT 08:52 AM (CST)
 
I have 10 or 12 G20-23's, and 6 or 7 G15 Front rotors and 5 or 6 Rear rotors. From my recollection the G20-15 was heavier than the G15 and I was curious as to why the G20-15 and G15 were manufactured at the same time, and which one made the better combat motor. I was looking to pick up a couple of G20-15's as I really like my G20-23's. I only have glow motors. Around here a diesel is seldom seen. I have only seen one diesel run in my lifetime and I am 66.
I did notice that the G15's have several versions. How is this for a rambling answer.

Hothandle

ghost123uk · May 11, 2006 08:32 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#8 source

As far as I know. the Diesel versions of these motors were made for =

G15RV = FAI Team Race
G20/15D = Combat

Always looking for C/L flying buddies in the N.W. - UK - mail me ! - [email protected]

gcb · May 11, 2006 09:02 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#9 source
LAST EDITED ON May-11-06 AT 09:04 AM (CST)
 
Here are some of the engines being discussed. First is an mid fifties version of the G20-15 (the other engine is a G21-35, same vintage). Next pics are the 1960 version of the G20-15 glow and diesel, and finally the G-15. Just realized that I didn't take pics of the G20-23's (but mine are RC anyhow.

George

hothandle · May 11, 2006 11:20 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#10 source
My older G15's look like your last one, the newer ones have a rounded Intake that is large enough to insert a G21-35 venturi in if you trim the bottom. Afraid all my G20-23's have been converted to UC, or they are sitting waiting a G20-15 venturi. I have several RC carbs, the ones from the 1965 cases use the G21-35 needle valve assy.

Hothandle

Jim Thomerson · May 11, 2006 12:14 PM

RE: G15 and G21/35#11 source
I have the ST G20-15 diesel review. Basically they turn 12K or a little better with a 9 x 4, 14K or a little better with an 8 x 4. Peak HP is at 15K, torque curve is fairly flat. I just sorted out a bunch of Aeromodellers and may have the G15 glow review. I do have the G whatever RV diesel review and it is maybe a hair more powerful than the G20-15 FI diesel. I have had a G15 FI diesel. I am not sure th one I had was factory, but I have, somewhere, seen a picture of a factory version. The G15 looking engine with round intake is the X-15 which is snurle ported.

The G20-15 glow has a saddle-shaped head; the G15 more like a hemi head. The X-15 head sits on top of the cylinder and is a hemi type. George Aldrich in his 1967 Aeromodeller Annual write up on speed shows how to make a Cox TD 15 head into a head button for an ST.

If I were going to race G20-15 glows, I would get a different head made which would, I think, make them run with the G15's. We ran G15's in Midwest Limited Goodyear until they all broke and the event died. Our stuff was 100 MPH and reliable one hit start and restart. Fastest time was 7:14. We ran our limiteds in regular Goodyear and were 19th in the nation in 1970 something. At that time a low 7+ 10 mile time would place in most local contests.

Oh, the good old days.

hothandle · May 11, 2006 02:01 PM

RE: G15 and G21/35#12 source
LAST EDITED ON May-15-06 AT 07:52 AM (CST)
 
Here there was a father son team over in OK. City that ran Rossi's, and they generally cleaned up in Goodyear. Neither the G15 front rotor or rear rotor engines would keep up. I still have two of those planes one for front rotor and one for rear rotor, havn't been flown in 25+ years.

Hothandle

Steve Helmick · May 11, 2006 09:25 PM

RE: G15 and G21/35#13 source
My first ST .15's were G.15's, used in A speed. My buddy Bruce Tunberg had a G.20 .15 in an A speed model, which was never as fast as my G.15's, or his. Actually, most these models were FAI sized with monoline, which was still legal in FAI in the mid '60's. My best speeds were 145 on nitro and 132 on 80-20. Pretty competetive on a local basis, by the way. The PGF Chinn test on the G.15 in MAN showed .65hp at around 23k on 50% and .5hp on 80-20.

Late in the program, ST brought out an RV conversion kit for the G.15 (might also have fit the G.20?), which I tried without success. I don't know if they just didn't get it right, or if the leakage and mechanical drag just didn't pay off for .15's. In the late '60's, I was working toward F2C, and tried a G.20 Diesel with a Cox .049 venturi, but I didn't find much magic with starting it. An Eta Elite Mk. II was quite another thing...sweet engine. Steve

Bigiron13 · May 12, 2006 09:02 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#16 source
That would be Bud Harris and son Doug. My G20-15 and La-Jolita would generally beat Bud and his Rossi powered Buster(s) in a heads up race. It got to be too much work to stay up with Bud and Doug and other Rossi powered stuff, so I got out of GY. My wife and I still call and visit with Bud and Doug some. Doug is now married and a papa.

Bigiron

Bigiron13

gcb · May 11, 2006 09:59 PM

RE: G15 and G21/35#14 source
Found a pic of the .23's. Also the X-15.

George

hothandle · May 12, 2006 07:44 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#15 source
They made two models of the X15, one has TST on the lug, the other is a speed engine. My TST had a iron piston and sleeve, and the sleeve was very short. I bought a Piston and sleeve through the mail from Jean Steinkampfor a X15 that was ABC and the sleeve was much longer and he told me it was for the speed engine,he told the TST was a combat engine.

Hothandle

Rustler · May 12, 2006 02:09 PM

RE: G15 and G21/35#17 source
I don't know the proper designation of these engines, but the X-15 FI shown was available with the ST TST porting, and conventional schneurle porting.

Ian R.

ama21835 · May 16, 2006 08:55 AM

RE: G15 and G21/35#18 source
LAST EDITED ON May-16-06 AT 08:55 AM (CST)
 
Progress is our most important problem

I have one of those X-15's. A real powerhouse of an engine, and only run a few times.

Unfortunatly for Mr. Garofali, the engine hit the market at the same time as the Nelson.