Comments on Stunt News

I'm thankful for Tom's and everyone else's efforts that go into each issue of Stunt News. We are very fortunate to have a magazine of that quality considering the cost, readership, etc.
I do have a suggestion however (not a criticism so please no flames). It seems rare to find articles in SN that deal with actual flying technique, tips on flying the pattern, issues and help with particular maneuvers, like the overheads, squares, discussions on competition techniques, etc. from the top competitors with maybe an interview or Q/A article with the Top experts (read Dave, Ted, Brett, et. al.) Since I am a lowly beginner/intermediate wannabe I certainly am not qualified to contribute. I do realize that it takes time and a lot of effort to put together articles for publication and I am grateful for those that do contribute. I do think we tend to get carried away a bit about the models, building techniques, painting, etc.(which are great) and forget that the other half of the sport is actually flying these things with as much PRECISION as we can. This is just a suggestion to make SN a bit more rounded and I think that everyone could benefit and would enjoy from more on the flying aspects of the sport. Just a suggestion/observation. What do you think?
Brian

Brian, in several back issues of Flying Models there was is a series of how to fly the manuevers of the pattern by Bob Hunt. I will look up the actual issue numbers. They were very specific and I learned mucho from them.

>.It seems rare
>to find articles in SN
>that deal with actual flying
>technique, tips on flying the
>pattern, issues and help with
>particular maneuvers, like the overheads,
>squares, discussions on competition techniques,
>etc. from the top competitors
>with maybe an interview or
>Q/A article with the Top
>experts (read Dave, Ted, Brett,
>et. al.)

Brian: Your questions and suggestions are sound. I think the real reason you don't see as much about this is that most feel the techniques have not changed, but the technology does. Consequently, those who are working on the techniques are now working on the technology. But there are many like you (and me) still working on the techniques. For that matter, I guess we all do. I guess a column could be added to SN, but then that columnist would need material. In a magazine there seems to be the feeling that we should not repeat what we have done in the past, and we constantly have new people arriving who have not read the past.

>Since I am a lowly
>beginner/intermediate wannabe
>I certainly am not qualified
>to contribute. I do realize that
>it takes time and a lot of
>effort to put together articles
>for publication and I am grateful
>for those that do contribute.

One great contribution you can make is ask questions. All of the people you mentioned are active on this forum. If you want questions answered, why not ask them here? I have been promoting this for a long time that people ask specific questions about flying the pattern? Even here on the forum most of the material seems to be on the technology and not on the flying itself. Ask questions (one at a time) about each segment of the pattern that you are having difficulty with and you will get immediate, and helpful, answers. Not everyone is on the internet, so publishing some of the material once again in Stunt News could be helpful, but you are here and you have questions.

>I do think we tend to get
>carried away a bit about
>the models, building techniques, painting,
>etc.(which are great) and forget
>that the other half of
>the sport is actually flying
>these things with as much
>PRECISION as we can...
>Brian

You are right. There are a lot of sport flyers out there who think if they just had the "perfect" plane, then they, too, cold fly the perfect pattern. There is a lot more that goes into the flying of these things than the building of them, although each aspect is important. And if you don't have a good flying plane with a good power plant, you won't have a good flight.

I like the interview concept. Somebody could track down several of the top luminiaries of the sport and get their opinions. An interview as opposed to just a column written by the greats could have some advantages. For example, Windy writes at length about finishing and building, but what about flying?? the interviewer (envisioning Mike Wallace here..(!)) could grill him at length about flying details. Ted, David, Todd Lee, Werwage, etc etc etc. It could keep somebody (or lots of interviewers) busy for years of articles. Somebody could even interview Dirt about life on his home planet.
I guess I'm a just idea thrower here, because as a lowly rookie to the stunt wars I don't know any of these people, so I'm not the man to send out on interviews. (cowardly way out, I know) But someday there might be a roving reporter for SN to make this a reality...

A while back, right here, Len was kind of going through the pattern, and gathering comments on each maneuver.

I thought it was very helpful, really informative. Some of the suggestions were of a sort that I never would have stumbled upon. Wish I could find that thread.

Len, why don't you start it again? Grab the current rulebook, and we could go through it, step by step, from engine startup until the model lands.

The Hunt articles in FM harken back to the late 80s. They were repeated again in the 90s. I have copies of all. But what I've seen here by the Experts (including Mr Hunt!) goes much, much further. The interactive nature of the 'net brings out the best in this case

Actually, Len, with just a little effort, anyone could take this material once completed, edit just a bit (or maybe not at all) and make a phamphlet or booklet or something. Maybe posted on a separate website.

Notice that, in some recent SN issues, a single topic, like Uniflow tanks was discussed, verbatim, either from here or Flightlines or Isky's (can't remember which, now)? Each issue, the same thing could happen, maneuver by maneuver, for the Pattern. (Just an idea).

So it doesn't look like I'm trying to impose Action Items on anyone, I would be more than happy to put some final product together, once we have a body of info, if there is general agreement that "Hints and Kinks on Flying the Pattern" or, somesuch extended thread/articles/"book" would be wanted. (I kind of did this in Another Life at work anyway). Note that I would only put the thing together from an editorial and compositional standpoint; I am hardly one to give Handle advice.

Again, just some thoughts...

Well, Currel, I have been thinking (urging others, but can do it myself) of starting a complete series, maneuver by maneuver to get inputs from others on the "hints and Kinks" of doing the pattern properly. If nothing else, I will start it shortly. We do have a couple of good starts on a couple of maneuvers, but can do these again as time works out.

And, yes, if you want to edit it together into a booklet, that would be fine. I was even thinking of doing something like that on my main website, but never have the time to get it done.

Hey Len,

What about adding a category to the board... "Flying the Pattern" or simply "Flying" to help separate the technical and flying aspects of the hobby/sport..

May be a bad idea..

>Hey Len,
>
>What about adding a category to
>the board... "Flying the Pattern"
>or simply "Flying" to help
>separate the technical and flying
>aspects of the hobby/sport..
>
>May be a bad idea..

Sounds fine to me. I will make it my first read. Currell

LAST EDITED ON May-22-02 AT 07:04 AM (CST)

I would like to make several comments and/or suggestions here.

First, there has been from time to time a column in Stunt News on "Flying". Whoever has written that column can submit whatever material he chooses. A suggestion to him and to Tom Morris about providing a discussion in some format about how to fly/present each of the PA maneuvers could be favorably well received.

Second, it appears there is some interest to use this SSW forum to provide information to discuss flying each of the PA maneuvers. I suggest that a good starting place to initiate such a discussion would be to post at least some of the several columns from the magazines where flying each of the maneuvers has been discussed. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel when some outstanding writers and flyers in their monthly columns have covered most of the basics. Specifically, I make reference to:

Bob Hunt: Flying Models, started a series in Jan 87, then did a more comprehensive series from Feb 94 through Nov 95

Lew McFarland: American Aircraft Modeler, May 74 through mid 75

There have been various other articles published over the years about flying the stunt pattern as we have seen with the reprint of George Aldrich's 1951 Model Airplane News article in the latest Stunt News and there is still some useful information there. Other articles include authors such as Bob Palmer (numerous articles from the 50's), Dick Mathis, Clair Sieverling (MAN Nov 60) and the list goes on and on. And there has been some good material in the British Aeromodeller magazine as well, like in July and August 73 and June 80.

I think there would have to be some caution on how a forum could be used to discuss the PA pattern. I am sure that there would be some vigorous dialog that would result. Indeed, questions and comments from any source from any level of experience should be encouraged. It would be probably be interesting to any PA enthusiast and could be very enlightening. But there would need to be some element to moderate the material to assure correct information is being provided. Based on various threads on this and other forums regarding various aspects of the PA pattern, I would caution how any forum could be used to provide a tool to better understand how to fly the PA pattern. Other than covering basics, I wonder if any forum such as this is the best way to discuss the pattern and how it should be flown. Given the tendency for various threads to go off in any number of tangents, such discussion could become ponderous and misleading. Maybe a separate Flying Pattern branch in this forum with a strong, knowledgeable, charismatic and thick skinned moderator could make it work. In the short time that I have been reading the material in these control line forums, there have been any number of posts about the PA pattern as authoritative information but reflect an inaccurate or incomplete understanding of the rulebook.

Brian, in answer to my info, see Keith Trostles answer.

Also consider asking PAMPA products for reprints of articles on the subject.

You might also want to consider a complete series of columns from Model Aviation I did in the 1980s called "Fly Like a Champion" which covered the entire pattern in great detail.

I really think PAMPA needs to form a committee of experienced (read "old") flyers to develop a comprehensive "BEST OF" list of articles on the event. PAMPA PRODUCTS could print up a couple dozen compilations of these articles at one time and sell them en-masse for a reasonable price. I"m thinking about the top twenty five classic articles (Netzeband's CL made Painless, Gialdini's Olympic, etc) and the top twenty-five modern things like Paul's Impact article and trim guide etc.

Would such a thing be of interest? How much would it be worth as a package?

Ted

Oh dear god thanks for answering my prayers. HE** YES I WANT THIS COMPILATION OF MODERN ARTICLES!!!!!!!! There are many articles that could be included. You could do compilations of the top 25 or so airplane articles and compilations of the top flying articles. YES I WILL PAY!!!!! How much when and where?

This is what I have been wanting but just really didnt know it until you mentioned it. I want to read all about the modern stunters. Not so much on the classic thing but I know alot of guys are.

On another note. I want to order the entire 1994 year of PAMPA. I dont know how much back issues are. I dont how much to pay. Can you help me out?

-You might also want to consider a complete series of columns from Model Aviation I did in the 1980s called "Fly Like a Champion" which covered the entire pattern in great detail.

I really think PAMPA needs to form a committee of experienced (read "old") flyers to develop a comprehensive "BEST OF" list of articles on the event. PAMPA PRODUCTS could print up a couple dozen compilations of these articles at one time and sell them en-masse for a reasonable price. I"m thinking about the top twenty five classic articles (Netzeband's CL made Painless, Gialdini's Olympic, etc) and the top twenty-five modern things like Paul's Impact article and trim guide etc.

Would such a thing be of interest? How much would it be worth as a package?

Ted-

Great idea Ted! I would (will) order a copy whenever one is available.

LAST EDITED ON May-22-02 AT 02:07 PM (CST)

Sold... Just say how much...

Doug,

My Stunt News copy comes every month with a price list/order form for PAMPA Products. According to the latest one of these I have, only the September, October, and November issues are available for 1994----for $5.00 plus shipping each.