LOOPS/ .5A

Would like some guidance on looping. Yesterday I was doing succesful wing oversl in succession so I'm confident that I can now do a loop. The 1/2A is performing nicely so power is not a problem @ this point. When I start the loop, should I start out with almost full up, then give full up when I get to the top of the loop? Or, should I give full up @ the get go? I'm also a bit indecisive as to where to begin my loop. Should I be a good 20-25' off the ground before entering into, or start out lower? Any experienced advise would be greatful.
Thanks in advance,

BLACK Hawk

Bob,
I am sure that there will be many different answers to your question and it would be easier if I was there to see the model and how it flies. In general Your first 1/2A loop should be started high with any breeze to your back. Start with a short dive to increase speed then up elevator until the model climbs out over the top of the loop. Once you find out how well the plane will do an inside loop you can perfect it untill the loop is nice and round. Each model performs differently so no-one tell you how much up is required or when the model will need it, this is something that you will need to find out with your model.
Larry

Thanks Larry, I'm getting myself pumped up, and today is the day.

DON'T use full up. It will probably slow the plane down too much. If you are doing wingovers, I'd simply do the loop as part of the wingover pullout, the first few times. Give it enough up for a nice soft pull out and just keep flying the plane up around the loop. The dive from the wingover will give some extra speed(sometimes nice for half A's) and the pull up into the loop will be a bit into the wind,so the wind will help turn it.

This learning to stunt stuff really goes a LOT better with a light weight, over-powered plane. Something that has more than enough power and wing area to do a smallish loop almost anywhere. Once you learn how the plane looks and behaves in maneuvers and are confident enough to fly it where you want to. We have a new clubmember who built a couple SL combat models last fall. Within three flights he was doing loops. This spring(maybe 50 flights under his belt) he can put the maneuvers pretty much where he wants to and is thinking about trying stunt at a contest. He's bounced it a few times, but who cares? Replace the prop and try not to make the same mistake again.

Bob, in the loop use your whole arm, not just your wrist. Good luck. Herb

Bob --

Loops? Let me bore you to death. First, if you are a CLer you know RC is a non-feel sport. In CL, we FEEL the plane, we don't just watch it and push levers. CL is not like a 3D video game. It is right real, and a pilot of a real airplane will tell you that the the feedback you get through the control system is how you fly. Sure, you need visual reference, but that physical feedback is the way you fly.

CLers doing their first loop often forget how difficult level flight is for a beginner. Level and steady CL flight is far more difficult to master than anything you will ever do later in the CL world. I still remember learning that! In a loop, use your already learned level flight skill to make a vertical climb, get brave and apply the appropriate amount of "up" to get inverted, then fly a dive back to your normal flight level and level out. In short, don't yank, but fly.

The CL world consists of first mastering inside loops. Next is lazy 8s, where you are inverted a little longer. Stretch them out a half lap or more, and you can conquer inverted flying. Recovering from the lazy 8s in a half outside loop teaches you a little more of inverted flying. Note that even the really good guys often fly a little higher bottoms on their outsides than on their insides!

Words fail in any description like this. Sorry, the best I could come up with.

Larry Fulwider
"So, you fly toy airplanes on strings? Weird!"

Well put Larry, you must have been, or are a teacher, however, I know better than this because: "Those who can, do, Those who can't teach".

I appreciate that description and it is quite appropriate, level flying was quite simple last weekend w/the slower, less responsive Lil Wizard. I just finished 3 tank fulls w/ another 1/2A, a Skyray, and there is quite a differance, each little move with my forearm, up or down was like 3 times as much reaction from that plane.

The mistake beginners make is that they don't realize that they've started the second loop much lower than the first one. The first one is usually done by just giving it up and hold on and hope for the best. What everyone is trying to say is that once you have completed the first loop you have to fly the plane back up to the altitude where the top of the second loop will match the top of the first one. Beginners are scared and nervous so they just crank in up and hope the plane will do the rest. That's not good enough. Consecutive loops look like it's a give it up and hold on but it's not. As was said you have to fly it through the manuver which means you have to bring the plane back to the place where you started the first one. The problem is now that you completed the first loop the plane is going slower because you slowed it down by using too much up, that's why you are being told to open up your loops because if you do you'll have a much better chance of maintaining airspeed and it will not be necessary to use so much up elevator. Also remember that when you started the first loop the plane was level. Many times I see beginners start the second loop from the same spot but the plane is already verticle.....WRONG as this will just make the second loop smaller than the first one and into the ground. Yeah it just takes practice. I would suggest that you do one loop and when it is completed and the plane is level keep it level for 2 or 3 seconds and then start the second loop and then do the same for the third loop. The loops won't be on top of each other but once you learn to do 3 loops in a row this way you can slowly shorten the time between the loops and you will be on your way to picking up your next trophy.

Thanks for that advice Greg, I took the Sig Skyray out this afternoon and pulled off my 1st loop in 34 years, what a thrill!! I got my legs, etc. through a 2 tanks of gas and then on the 3rd, decided it was time to give it a try. The Sig Skyray performed beautifull, I must say, up and around very smoothly, the leveling off after completed loop was not real pretty, but no ground!!
I did 2 more after that and none was as pretty, to me, as the 1st. All in all was a good day of flying as I am now over the initial fear of attempting and I can put good experienced info, like yours and the other guys, to good use.

Thanks again Greg,

Regards,

"Note that even the really good guys often fly a little higher bottoms on their outsides than on their insides!"

I do, but not the really good guys.

FWIW, the NW Skyraiders had a group building session a few years ago, manufacturing 8 or 10 of the 1/2A Skyrays. Powered with old Babe Bees scrounged/donated or assembled from others, they flew way too well to be trainers. Dave Gardner did a good share of the stunt pattern with one. Took several pit stops for fuel, of course. Steve

One of the good things about the Skyray is the external control system. The instructions recommend starting with the controls set for minimum movement, then adjusting for more sensitivity as you progress.

MANY have learned on this airplane.

(Many of us old guys learned on the Scientific Hollow log, etc. equivalent)