Nobler Vairiants -update and fresh appeal

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-00 AT 03:14 AM (EST)

I am on the home straight in gathering information about the Nobler. (See previous thread. ) I have had contact with George Aldrich and got an interesing insight from him on some of the design history of the plane as well as some straight and simple building advise. I'm awaiting the arrival of Nobler video from Bob Hunt and one or two folks have emailed digital photos of their Noblers.

I have also aquired several kits of different versions, the Green Box, Geieselke and a curious one from Classical Air Models Co. - the Pro Nobler

I am still trying to find out more about this particular manufacturer, when did Classical Air Models produce their hand cut kits and when did they fold?

My Brodak Nobler is making steady progress on the building board.

I am now focussing on photographic evidence on the variants and I would like to see some photographs digital or otherwise of some of the variants especially the Geiseke, Grondal and MAN versions though all variants would be welcome. Should any of the photographs be selected for inclusion in the magazine article that I am writing, all sources would be acknowledged.

If you want to send digital scan for appraisal or even post some photos (they will be returned) please contact me at [email protected]

The Nobler has become an obsession with me now and piecing together the jigsaw has become an enthralling pastime that is diverting me away from building and flying.

Tight lines

ollie

Do you have a rough draft you are willing to share? I, and I am sure many others, would like to see your efforts.

Just a warning -- If you plan to copyright the article, sending it out now would mean you could not legally copyright it later.

As for the Geiseke rib set, I hope to acquire a Geiseke Nobler kit in about two weeks should be able to sort out a rib set pattern from it.. Doesn't Leonard offer the Geiseke drawings...do they have the rib patterns on them?

According to the Bear himself, the Geiseke rib set was made by taking the original Nobler Green Box ribs and tracing them with a ball point pen. The new ribs were then cut that pen width wider. The complete two-part article on the design, construction, and history of the Geiseke Nobler is available through PAMPA (reprints of magazine articles are sold through PAMPA). As with the Green Box kit, changes were done to the Geiseke Nobler Kit from the original design. Being that the Geiseke Nobler kit came out in the 1970's, the kit version ineligible for Classic competition. There are no "Official", Classic Legal plans available for the Geiseke Nobler but they should be available in the next year.

Check you rule book on what's considered classic legal.

Any aircraft "Published, Kitted, or DESIGNED" prior to
31 Dec 1969. This would include all versions of the Gieseke Nobler up to the cutoff date. When the rule just said Published or Kitted, then that precluded the Kit version, since it was about 1976 or 1977 when it was kitted (not to sure I was out then). However, the rule was changed about two years ago to include the "Designed" phraseology. All that is necessary is proof that the aircraft actually exsisted and was flown it that period. Since the "G" Nobler was the 66 Nats champion there is no question regarding wheather it existed or not!

Let me call him and get back on this board with his direct response.

I will start a new thread and repost this in more detail, but I just got off the phone talking to Bob (Gieseke) and he said the Gieseke Nobler is NOT classic legal (in his opinion), as it was based on the 74 version.

Check the thread up above under "The Definitive Answer" for more detail.

I can tell that the Gieseke Nobler kit does not use nearly the same construction techniques as the original, probably for kit building purposes, what else isn't fairly close to the original? If all reproductions "had" to be "exactly" identical to the original production that would preclude several RSM kits from "Classic" competion as well. I have have been building an RSM Shark .45 and some of it is not even close to the original, except wing span and areas. The fuselage and rudder shapes are somewhat different. So who decides how much difference is legal? Simple, the contest director does. I don't think that any of the Southeaster contest directors would outlaw the TF kit Gieseke Nobler from competition in classic, do you? After all it is a 1966 design. Someone from Top Flight even signed the plans that it was an accurate copy of the plane. Why would they do that if it was considerably different?

I hope that this next year we get to do a set of plans for the Geiseke Nobler & if that happens, I can let you know exactly what is different if anything, once and for all.

If you do draw the "G" Nobler plans, please do the 68 or 69 version, I think they are the best of the classic era ones? Mike Thompson built a 68 version and it flew quite well.
I guess either the 68 or 69 would be the ticket, maybe both versions on one set of plans???

In what ways is the Geeseekee (nobody knows how to spell it!) Nobler inferior to more modern designs? What does it lack?

What modifications would YOU make to make the design fully modern and still keep the Nobler look?

As to the 35 size plane, I would go for a little thicker airfoil, add a little flap (let's face it, we aren't going to build as light as Gieseke). then I would make the tail a bit larger and lengthen the tail moment. But, that said, the design flys quite well as-is. A lot of the changes we make are merely personal preference. Even Gieseke, who "played" with the design over the years, made the comment to me once, saying, "I don't know if I ever improved it."

Sounds like you would make all the improvements to the Gieseke "N" that I did to come up with my Akromaster, i.e., planking use very punk light 3/32, makes the wing about 21%, Wing span still 52". Ourboard flap 1/8" wider at tip. Nose moment 8&5/8", tail 14.875". Stab and elevators 23&1/2 inch span. It used a 1969 vintage OS 35S with the clamshell muffeler, interior restrictor size increased and the rear bore drilled. Original weight was 41 ounces, but due to using Aero Gloss that cracked and crazed becuase of it's very good squaring capabilities I had to sand it down and re-finish it with Epoxy. It gained 5 ounces in the process and weighed 46 ounces then. It still flew quite well, but of course wouldn't square quite as well as it did at 41 ounces.

A helpful hint on refinishing: If the dope finish is cracking, you can use rejuvenator (available from Brodak or at your local airport mechanic.) It may still need to be refinished after this, however.

Another way to remove an old dope finish is to use a lot of cheap lacquer thinner. Soak a paper towel with it and rub. Takes a bit of elbow grease (so does sanding) but most of the finish can be removed without fear of sanding through structure.