Dizzier inverted?

Hi all,

we'll after mending the nose on the Akromaster (thanks for your input) I got airborne again today. I had a nice few flights, and managed to get to grips a bit better with inverted flight, despite some gusts of wind. I can now hold it in level flight and *know* which way to pull to recover. I managed 2 laps several times with no problems before I decided not to test my luck too much.

Interestingly I feel rather dizzy after even one lap inverted, but I'm totally comfortable upright for a full 5 minutes.

Anyone else felt this?

Jonathan

PS It's so nice to finally feel that the things that go wrong are my flying and not engine/plane problems. I can cope with that, and I think I'm improving gradually.

I think this might be pretty common, an indication of our "training" for turning CCW . On occasion, I have been "trapped" momentarily inverted (engine gone blubbery rich) and after several laps I noticed that I felt dizzy.

L.

"I keep tryin' to think, but nothin' happens.." - Curly Howard

I asked this same question a while ago. (may have even been on Isky's) since the same thing happens to me. Still does for that matter. General feeling seemed to be that a lot of folks got a bit dizzy flying inverted.

I don't recall the dizzy part (been a long time ago) but I do know we have to learn responses, and then "unlearn" to get inverted. I remember when I first tried to ride a unicycle. At first I could get it to go forward, but couldn't get it to turn (someone forgot to add a steering wheel). So first I learned to turn right. Then, and it was an interesting experience, I had to learn all over again to turn left. Just learning one response doesn't mean you automatically get the other down.

But the dizziness should pass very quickly. But I believe that people should learn to fly level, then maybe loops, lazy eights and inverted. Definitely inverted by that time. Once you master inverted flight, then you are ready for the rest of the pattern and you will discover that crashes are far less frequent. If you suddenly find yourself in an "odd attitude" you can pull out the "other" direction instead of heading for sudden death into the ground.

Professional dancers often experience this. They are used to turning in one direction, just like CL flyers. When they go the other way...I've noticed this.

The solution for both groups is identical.

Practice.

And more practice.

>I don't recall the dizzy part
>(been a long time ago)
>but I do know we
>have to learn responses, and
>then "unlearn" to get inverted.

There literally is two types of dizziness, clockwise and anticlockwise...we need to get used to them both. I was very dizzy the first few times of extended inverted flight.

> I remember when I
>first tried to ride a
>unicycle. At first I
>could get it to go
>forward, but couldn't get it
>to turn (someone forgot to
>add a steering wheel).
>So first I learned to
>turn right.

Reminds me of my son's first attempts at riding a bicycle without stabilisers, he could ride in clockwise circles but straightlines defeated him.

>But the dizziness should pass very
>quickly. But I believe
>that people should learn to
>fly level, then maybe loops,
>lazy eights and inverted.

The dizziness does pass. I totally support your sequence. The lazy eights also offer an opportunity to stand still and regain composure

Vernon
itching to get a few flight in at the weekend

>Interestingly I feel rather dizzy after
>even one lap inverted, but
>I'm totally comfortable upright for
>a full 5 minutes.
>
>Anyone else felt this?

Yes. I still get this occasionally, particularly after a long time off. For instance, I flew in December, and then not again until April sometime. I was OK upright, and more-or-less OK inverted, but when I went into the outside rounds, I had momentary disorientation. It went away after a few tries. I did still manage to get a 537 with the Skyray/20FP in Profile 40! Unfortunately, David borrowed it and beat me by 10 points.

It's a lot worse if you hold your head differently upright and inverted. Lots of people manage to hold their head up straight upright, but tend to lean to the right inverted.
Brett

>Professional dancers often experience this. They
>are used to turning in
>one direction, just like CL
>flyers. When they go the
>other way...I've noticed this.
>
>The solution for both groups is
>identical.
>
>Practice.
>
>And more practice.
>
>Currell

YEP.....What he said. Every time I go flying I do more inverted laps to releave this problem.

Scott(Clockwise)Riese

Ilearned to fly the other direction, and I get a little dizzy sometime with prolonged counterclockwise level flight.

I've not learned to fly left handed. I tried it once, and my left hand did not have a clue. I would have to think, at some length, about how to move the handle. Sometimes, to avoid disaster, I had to reach over with my right hand and move my left hand in the appropriate direction. I'll try it again one of these days.

I was asked not long ago whether I can fly left-handed, to which I said "sure" - and I have done it several times. But there is more of a story to it than merely being equally dextrous with both hands (which in fact I am not, as witness any attempt to write left-handed while recovering from one or another injury to any of the three digits used fir writing).

So what's the truth? You can do some things when you don't stop to take time to THINK hard about them. On several occasions, and I can only guess that it's between four and eight times over the 38 years since I flew my first combat match, I have found myself tangled with a less-practiced flyer's lines, and he was about to crash us both.

If he could fly a few loops and stay in a small area, I could fly outside of his path and pass my handle around his lines the other way from the direction we wrapped (assuming we are certain of that). And I have to keep looping around the outside of his figures with each hand in turn as I was reaching around the other pilot's hand, handle, and lines.

It's over with faster than I just wrote about it, since we're not usually talking about more than a couple of wraps. And right in the heat of the moment, it doesn't seem that difficult. But then a week later, or maybe the next day, while not involved two in a circle, and you try handing yourself the handle the same way, and you have the time to THINK, and "whoops!" you're about to crash or already crashed, totally unable to coordinate your up and down with the "wrong" hand.

Of course, that doesn't say much about dizziness. So: here's one more reason not to grow older. It means you lose your learned resistance to dizziness much faster between flying sessions - you want to put in a few flights every couple of weeks, or you start getting dizzy the first flight after only a 4-6 week layoff . . unless that's just my own individual variation of the aging process?

The K.

Johnathan,
You are doing fine. Dizziness is common when you are learning. It goes away as you learn to focus on the airplane and the ground mostly ignoring the background except for a likely point for intersections (but that comes later). For now two laps is fine, Don't rush it. Keep the airplane in one piece and fly. If you try 4 laps inverted too soon and damage your airplane your progress will be severely slowed alowing for repairs amd loss of confidence. For now it might also be a good idea to limit those two lap manurvers to just once or twice per flight. You might also find it useful to fly inverted with your palm up, "leading" and "lagging" the airplane. I find it easier to use different handle/hand positions for upright and inverted flight.
Al

LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-02 AT 03:45 PM (CST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-02 AT 03:44 PM (CST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-02 AT 03:42 PM (CST)

Get yourself a spare airplane and fly it inverted the whole flight, coming out to normal flight only when you're going to fall down. Just like when you started flying, it'll pass quick enough. Then you can use the same spare to teach your other hand how to fly. Just like the first hand, it knows what it's supposed to do, but having to think about it and doing it automatically is what we had to learn. At least you'll be able to pass the controls off to someone that knows whats going on quick enough, your OTHER hand.

For a plane in the 15 size, I'd recomend just building one of those Platters of www.aeromaniacs.com, but make it bigger like the one I had here. With one of those bendable plastic props, a 2 ounce tank and a 10 or 15 size modern engine AND a Coroplast airplane, you can smash it into the ground till the cows come home and it won't break. Just dust it off and go back to training. Then you can use it to train other people how to fly.