The Definitive Answer

As a follow up to a question under another thread concerning the legality of the Gieseke Nobler for Classic Stunt, I decided to call Bob Gieseke and ask him direct. In his opinion it is not classic legal, since it was based on the '74 version of the model. The '74 version did have the '66 wing, but that is the only part that remained the same. Stabilizer, tail area, and moments are all different. Thus the fuselage is different, also. I am assuming he used the actual '66 wing and built a new and different fuselage and tail around it.
Now I guess one could carry this to extremes since most Classic rules allow for some "differences" which could, also, result in the loss of some or all of the appearance points. However, in his opinion, and I guess that is where we should go with it, it is NOT classic legal. In his own words, "If he saw one at a contest, he wouldn't issue a protest" (thank you, Al Gore, we have had enough of those.) "but he would tell the person flying it that he did not consider it legal."

So, it is a "no go", and I have got to, once again, change my listing of the plane on my web site.

The Supreme Court went 5-4 and 7-2 today on issues that hit the press. They also ruled 6-3 in favor of the Gieseke, which didn't get as much press.

I'd call it a go!

Yeah, but Ginsberg dissented. And it wasn't one of those "respectfully" dissented. It was just flat out dissented when mention was made of the Top Flite kit. So, I am not so sure.

(Now, if the wing is a '66 and the fuselage is a '74, would that make it a '70 overall? And how close is that to the cut off date of December 31, 1969? Maybe that's not a "drop dead" date and we can extend it a little. Anybody see any chads lying on the floor? Maybe there is more area in the wing than there is in the fuselage and that tips the scale. Let's have a recount.)

Mine's got Dangling flaps!! Does that count as much as chads?
Iwant them AAALLLLL counted. That's what's prudent don't y'all know now y'hear.
Bigiron

THERE WAS AN ELECTION?????

If God had intended for us to vote, He would have given us candidates.

>THERE WAS AN ELECTION?????

Well, Scott, I can understand why you missed it. Our national election took place about 5 weeks ago and our president and all where elected at that time. But there was some minor skirmish about one of the elected offices on the ballot down in Florida that needed to be sorted out.

I think there was some guy named, "Chad" who was punching holes in some of the ballots or something, and some of the people couldn't understand why his ballots had holes and theirs didn't. I think what they wanted to do was go back and punch holes just like Chad's. But they settled it in peaceful fashion, as always, by calling in a bunch of lawyers who went to every court in the country to poll the judges and see how they felt. As you know, majority rules in our country, and they kept saying, "Let's count the votes." So that's what they did, they counted a bunch of judges votes.

Finally the US Supreme court got involved, and they decided to break for lunch saying there wasn't time to do anything about it anyway. So at that point, everybody went home. The guy who won (can't remember his name--George W, I think) had been ahead on every count, and that's the way they let it stand--just the way things would have been if they had never bothered with all that in the first place.

I don't think the people involved had a lot of money, because the lead lawyer for the guy who lost (I can't remember his name, either--it had something to do with giving people an Algorithm.) said he was doing his work "Pro Bono", which, as I understand it, is a Latin term that means, "if they would have paid me, I would have taken them to the cleaners."

Whoops, wrong forum. Sorry guys, this should have been under humor. Call in the administrator. This forum is for serious stuff, only.

I'm sorry... I was flying CONTROL LINE MODELS at that time. OH thats right WE in OREGON had to vote by mail. I voted in early OCTOBER. Thats for the update....DID Carter win?

I'll bet that no one except Bob could tell the difference between the 69 version and the kit version without a magnifying glass and ruler calibrated to 1/64 inches and sets of plans for each! Well, it was a 66 wing anway! Come on Curt - get those classic legal drawings done - let's just see what the difference really is!

>I'll bet that no one except Bob could tell the difference
>between the 69 version and the kit version without a
>magnifying glass and ruler calibrated to 1/64 inches and
>sets of plans for each!
>
>Well, it was a 66 wing anyway!

Actually, if I recall the situation correctly, it wasn't merely the same "design" wing as the 1966 bird, it was the actual, entire wing out of it. He has reused several wings that way over the years since he began refining his version of the Nobler.

>I'll bet that no one except Bob could tell the difference
>between the 69 version and the kit version without a
>magnifying glass and ruler calibrated to 1/64 inches and sets
>of plans for each! Well, it was a 66 wing anway! Come on Curt
>- get those classic legal drawings done - let's just
>see what the difference really is!
>
>Rocket City Jim

You are probably very correct in that assessment as well. In fact he mentioned that he had gone to VSC a couple of years ago and had wanted to build a '68 version, but thought that wasn't legal, so built and brought the '66 version instead. When he got there he discovered that several others had brought '68 versions as he had wanted to.

I am assuming that this was the start of the longer moments, bigger tail, or some such, but you are right. He might know, but who, else would? I forgot to ask him, but since he duplicated the '66 and others duplicated the '68, there must be plans to both available somewhere right now.

I guess I need to give him another call.

Len,

Tom Dixon sells some plans drawn in I believe, "Holland", that are supposed to be of the 1968 version. I have seen them and they look just like the kit - I think that the Stab Elevators of the 1968 version are 1" longer than the 69 version - 22" VS 21" - at least that's what I remember about Mike's 68 version he built for the 1969 flying season. Can't remember anything else though. And, i'm not positive of that either!

I think Bob has been heard to say that that particular wing was installed in several different planes.
Was the plans that Dixon produced from the Grondel (sp) nobler??
Bigiron
PS I thought Chad got dimples when he smiled, and before it was all over he was busting his sides laughing.

With the vaguries of Classic, AND the fact that several "plan vendors" as well as a whole lot of flyers, I would tend to believe that the most honest feel that the Gieske version or a permutation, is legal. Tough on a CD, and I, for one, feel that anything that looks like a Nobler is Classic.

Mine is built from Dixon plans....and he says that it's legal.

See Ya