Humongus/Blue .46 report

LAST EDITED ON Jun-15-02 AT 05:17 PM (CST)

I finally got tired of risking the Humongus every time out with the K&B .40S power (hah!). Until I can manage to order a new head (higher compression testing) for the K&B from RJL, it's "benched". Last Saturday morning, I pulled the K&B and bolted in a new, very early production LA .46. Fitted a Tower .40 backplate, made a .285" venturi, fitted with a Bruline "fine" air filter, and an RSM ST-clone NVA. Bolted on a Mac's Muffler #6650, an 11.5 x 4 APC, and put in a second headgasket. Fuel is 10% x 25% castor, at least that's what it says on the jug. Ran one tank on the ground and put it in the air, perfect run, just a tad rich. Lots of power...consecutive OH8's. Two more flights at same needle setting, got richer and richer, as it broke in, sort of unexpected. Flew it two flights Thursday night, launched at 10k on the tach, and it was great. Scott says 10.3k, but anyway, this is Scott Riese's setup (except for the filter, done for our mole infested flying field), and it is quiet and it works great. I did bend the stinger slightly to give the wing more clearance. Some testing with the APC 12.25 x 3.75, trimmed down to 11.5 or so might work better, but this is an excellent setup and it works as advertised. I made up a new set of lines for the .46, .018's x 64' eye/eye or about 66' 8" cl/cl, and had to add more tipweight, and will need to dial in the leadout guide. Total weight should be around 50 oz, rather porky. But I like it! Steve

Edit: 6/15/02 PM Flew 4 more flights today. It really was fast with the 11.5 x 4 so tried the cut down 12.25 x 3.75. This shows promise, but needs more trimming off the diameter. With the K&B, this thing kinda lumbered into the air, but with the LA, it really leaps off. Static thrust exceeds the weight, at least. The field at Riverwalk is a turbulent place, and makes trimming pretty difficult. I think that's 10 tanks of fuel through the 46.
I lowered the tank 1 shim to get upright/inverted speed fairly close, adjusted the CG forward a bit, and moved the leadouts aft 1/8" and then back forward 1/4". Next time out, I'll move them forward more, and will have another prop trimmed shorter. I think Dirt wants to build a Gladiator in the .45 size. Too many Shark 45's already 'round these parts, tho Pat Johnston's 52 oz/Magnum .53 version got fatally rekitted at Albany.

Steve,

Sorry to hear that your porky airplane lost its porky motor. Seemed like a good match to me.

It is more than a little surprising how well that LA46/MACS muffler setup works, is it not? First time I saw Scott Riese with one of those mufflers on an O.S. 40FP I was tempted to offer him a nice used tongue muffler if he couldn't afford something decent.

While it sounds sorta dumb, I have actually been casting around for a Classic-era model to use in conjunction with the whole Riese-developed package of LA46 and MACS muffler. It just works so well and is so cheap, no fiddles. About the closest one can come to a turn-key system, no matter the price.

One of the best things about it is that if the Blue motor gets too caked with crud or sneezes, you can afford to buy another at the local hobby shop, and spend 10 minutes breaking it in and go to a contest the next day. That and use APC props at under $4 each instead of $6 BY&O's or $35+ CF's. And it's quiet. Zowie, Dirtman! Steve

LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-02 AT 09:33 AM (CST)

>and MACS muffler. It just
>works so well and is
>so cheap, no fiddles. About
>the closest one can come
>to a turn-key system, no
>matter the price.
>
>Danny Dirt

Yep, in terms of real world dollars, we haven't had an engine that was mass produced and out of the box would work like the LA 46 since the Max-S 35 of the early-mid 1970s.

Regardless, the FP 35 that is reworked by Leonard and sells for $105 is a magnificent engine as well, and not that much more expensive.

(added Monday, 17 Jun 2002).

Thought about this some more. My SSW FP 35 will work with the stock muffler (bore out the stinger a little). The setup that you mentioned does work well, but requires the MACs muffler setup, which runs an additional $30.00. Makes the price of them about the same.

I have to wonder what the power delta between the two are. Better stated, I wonder what the delta between the usable power of the two are...?

Dan,

How about a 40/46 Silhavy Gypsy. Nice plane, my buddy Mike Thompson had one. It flew very well. Keep it under 52 ounces.

This week end I took off the OS-40FP that I started with this set up about 5 years ago. This engine has over 2500 runs on it. It is still tight, clean, and ready for the next plane that needs alittle boost. The SSW 35 is a re-timed 4-2-4 engine. RUNS the best of all reworked engines out there. The Mac's set up is a tuned pipe run. Two differant types of engine run. For the money....the pipe is less expensive. The rework SSW 35 is a safe way to go for the classic run. I enjoy both ways(engine runs).

Scott(kiss)Riese

Good to see you out flying stunt, now if you'er not going to use the Stunt Trainer, pass it on to some one else. Bill and I just got finished with the War Birds show here in Olympia, more than double the people that came last year. Did run into one guy that flew with the Dirt and Mike Hazel more than 20 years ago. My Humungous was gutless with the FP40, am opting for an Enya 45,or something in that range. Who sells the Macs Muffler? How much? Also my Humungous came in at 43 oz. After it is repaired will see how much it weighs. New classic plane almost ready to fly,my airforce really dwindeled do to the earthquake, two in-laws dying 19 days apart, and massive work load, plus I can't paint in the house. Happiness is Bellvue in your rearview mirror, JIM J

I just read the first post. About the Macs and props. I found my 46 to turn the APC 12.25X3.75 cut down to 12" at 9000 rpms on a tube type muffler. This has a larger opening than the stock type muffler. It really ran it best in this config. I tried the Macs but it would not trun the prop in the air enough to give good overhead tension. It really sagged and left alot to be desired. It ran the classic 2 4 on the muffler and the more pipe run on the Macs. However I was getting more power with the tube muffle than the Macs and it weighs alot less. If you have the stock muffler and it is the small CL muffler. Looks like an oblong bubble. Kind of like a fox muffler. Cut off the exit and make the exit larger some not alot. If there is a baffle in it remove it. This will give you really free flowing muffler but give you enough pressure to keep the run consistant and it will still be quiet. However the motor seemed to be making more power and the large prop kept it very loaded. The 2 4 break was very predictable.

Just something to try.

LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-02 AT 08:23 PM (CST)

My Humongous (the one pictured on the kit box) is now retired after more than 500 flights due to cracking of nonplasticized Aerogloss. K&B 4011, stock muffler and heavy hub, APC 11 x 5, Sig Champion 10%, 65 ft. 015 lines. I enjoyed that airplane as much as any I've ever had.

Forgot to mention it was 52 oz.

LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-02 AT 09:15 PM (CST)

I managed to get home in time today to order some parts for the K&B .40 from RJL...a head for the #4050, the head shim kit, etc. If the Humongus lasts awhile, I may get the K&B back on it for some testing with more compression and probably the Mac's Muffler. Meanwhile, I want to play with the props on the Mac's setup. Since this is a PIPE, it is important to get it into the "sweet spot" in the rpm range, which Scott says is around 10.3k at launch on most the setups he's tested so far. You need a good tacho. Scott has some good prop advise, but since the 10-4 Tornado 3 blade has vanished, I'm wondering what to substitute on a .40? I think the 12.25 x 3.75 has potential for the .46 LA, but it will need some more trimming before I know for sure, RPM just tops out at 10k and sags overhead, as DMoon sez. I have 4 of the LA .46's, and three are the CL version. I have not checked to see if the weight of the muffler is the same or not, but figured it would be identical, so did not go that direction. I could try a tongue muffler, and might, but low noise is pretty important to us right now, in our struggle for a flying site. I've never seen the logic of the 4-2-4 run, anyway. Leonard's engines have great appeal to me, however the best ones he tunes are out of production, and I'd rather not fool with buying stuff over eBait, or stuff I can't get parts for. I've had Super Tigres, after all.

Jimmy (Johnson), it's good to hear from youse. This Humongoose was 47 oz with the K&B .40/tongue muffler with no tailweight, essentially no tipweight, and no repairs. Now it must be around 50 oz, but I really don't want to know. The Pat Johnston Stunt Trainer has found a new home, and I think another home since that. Missed yas at NWCLR02, but I got pictures! Roy DeCamera's Go Devil would have gotten my vote for Concours, but being a mere PA judge, I didn't get to vote. Unkle Jimby's Boogaloo3 was also a beauty, tho. Roy's color combination was brave, unusual, spectacular and it worked! Steve

Steve- When you hear a rattling sound you'll know the engine is "on the pipe". The first time I heard that noise I thought Scotts motor was self destructing. He told me it's supposed to do that. He was right.

Nils, thanks for that "rattling" bit of info. Scott had not mentioned it, so I reckon he's been keeping some secrets;) Steve

>I just read the first post.
> About the Macs and
>props. I found my
>46 to turn the APC
>12.25X3.75 cut down to 12"
>at 9000 rpms on a
>tube type muffler. This
>has a larger opening than
>the stock type muffler.
>It really ran it best
>in this config. I
>tried the Macs but it
>would not trun the prop
>in the air enough to
>give good overhead tension.
>It really sagged and left
>alot to be desired.
>It ran the classic 2
>4 on the muffler and
>the more pipe run on
>the Macs. However I
>was getting more power with
>the tube muffle than the
>Macs and it weighs alot
>less. If you have
>the stock muffler and it
>is the small CL muffler.
> Looks like an oblong
>bubble. Kind of like
>a fox muffler. Cut
>off the exit and make
>the exit larger some not
>alot. If there is
>a baffle in it remove
>it. This will give
>you really free flowing muffler
>but give you enough pressure
>to keep the run consistant
>and it will still be
>quiet. However the motor
>seemed to be making more
>power and the large prop
>kept it very loaded.
>The 2 4 break was
>very predictable.
>
>Just something to try.
>
>DMoon

Some thing then was wrong with the engine. IT works with the Mac's pipe if you do it the way I tested it. The prop is 11.5x4 apc. At least 20% all castor.Sig 10%x25% is what I used. One extra head gasket .005 .280-.292 venturi. 10,300-10,500 . This was the only prop that worked.
As for keeping thing from you guy's NOPE

Scott(good engine)Riese

Yes I've tryed the 4-2-4 way and I liked it. However, I like the pipe run. This is the style I fly

>Some thing then was wrong with
>the engine. IT works with
>the Mac's pipe if you
>do it the way I
>tested it. The prop is
>11.5x4 apc. At least 20%
>all castor.Sig 10%x25% is what
>I used. One extra head
>gasket .005 .280-.292 venturi. 10,300-10,500
>. This was the only
>prop that worked.
>As for keeping thing from you
>guy's NOPE
>
>Scott(good engine)Riese
>
>Yes I've tryed the 4-2-4 way
>and I liked it. However,
>I like the pipe run.
>This is the style I
>fly

There is deffinently nothing wrong with this motor. It took first in the Southwest CL champs last year in expert. The plane was a Buccaneer 740(575 sqin,50oz)
I flew the plane 60 flights in three weeks with many configs on the motor. I tried macs and some of the props you said worked best. I tried tongues I tried stock and the Randy Smith Tube worked best. It was 100 degrees plus all through the month of August when I was getting ready for that contest. The larger the prop the better the overhead tension. The motor needed to breath more to turn that large prop. Tube muffler was doing that rather well but it was still very manageable. You are getting out around 10,300 and I going at about 9,000. I also had to run 5% nitro due to tank size. The 10% ran out early. Pipes that govern the run do not add power they simply govern the run. This can mean they sometimes steal just a little off the top and make the power more usable throughout the flight. You also said that the APC 11.5 was the only prop that worked. It wasnt enough prop in my config. It wanted more diameter which is good when it is really hot(100+) The motor I have is deffinantly a monster and makes me think often of going back to small planes and running these motors.

On another note my brother tried Macs mufflers on his os 20s on his B-25 and found the same thing to be true. They worked and the run was smooth but the power was not as good as on a stock muffler opened up and letting the motor breath. He had much more power with that setup and the Overhead eights were much easier.

Scott I am not knocking your setup one teeny tiny bit. I am simply talking about my experiences with it and what I have found. I know you have it working good people talk about it alot. I just thought the larger the prop the better in my situation and the Macs was not letting it go.

I am running a setup similar to Doug's (LA 46, 12.25/3.75 APC prop, ST NVA, Big Art muffler, 2 head gaskets, Thunderbolt plug, 10% Powermaster GMA 11/11) and although my experience is very limited so far it appears to match the performance he describes. It's amazing that this inexpensive engine can be run successfully in so many different configurations. Credit OS for building the engine but I'm sure that it's suitability for stunt is entirely coincidental to it's real purpose of cheaply powering entry level RC trainers. It's reminiscent of the long gone K&B Sportster line. They were the weak sisters of the RC world when they came out (and were cheap) but their almost 4-stroke like running characteristics made them suitable for stunt. They even liked stunt type fuel. I had to go to 25% castor before the 45 Sportster RC I had wouldn't overheat in the air and die. Regular RC fuel didn't work worth a hoot.---Mark

Anybody know about availability of Humongous plans? kit?

>
>Anybody know about availability of Humongous
>plans? kit?
>
>Kim

http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm

>>Some thing then was wrong with
>>the engine. IT works with
>>the Mac's pipe if you
>>do it the way I
>>tested it. The prop is
>>11.5x4 apc. At least 20%
>>all castor.Sig 10%x25% is what
>>I used. One extra head
>>gasket .005 .280-.292 venturi. 10,300-10,500
>>. This was the only
>>prop that worked.
>>As for keeping thing from you
>>guy's NOPE
>>
>>Scott(good engine)Riese
>>
>>Yes I've tryed the 4-2-4 way
>>and I liked it. However,
>>I like the pipe run.
>>This is the style I
>>fly
>
>
>There is deffinently nothing wrong with
>this motor. It took
>first in the Southwest CL
>champs last year in expert.
> The plane was a
>Buccaneer 740(575 sqin,50oz)
>I flew the plane 60 flights
>in three weeks with many
>configs on the motor.
>I tried macs and some
>of the props you said
>worked best. I tried
>tongues I tried stock and
>the Randy Smith Tube worked
>best. It was 100
>degrees plus all through the
>month of August when I
>was getting ready for that
>contest. The larger the
>prop the better the overhead
>tension. The motor needed
>to breath more to turn
>that large prop. Tube
>muffler was doing that rather
>well but it was still
>very manageable. You are
>getting out around 10,300 and
>I going at about 9,000.
> I also had to
>run 5% nitro due to
>tank size. The 10%
>ran out early. Pipes
>that govern the run do
>not add power they simply
>govern the run. This
>can mean they sometimes steal
>just a little off the
>top and make the power
>more usable throughout the flight.
> You also said that
>the APC 11.5 was the
>only prop that worked.
>It wasnt enough prop in
>my config. It wanted more
>diameter which is good when
>it is really hot(100+)
>The motor I have is
>deffinantly a monster and makes
>me think often of going
>back to small planes and
>running these motors.
>
>On another note my brother tried
>Macs mufflers on his os
>20s on his B-25 and
>found the same thing to
>be true. They worked
>and the run was smooth
>but the power was not
>as good as on a
>stock muffler opened up and
>letting the motor breath.
>He had much more power
>with that setup and the
>Overhead eights were much easier.
>
>
>Scott I am not knocking your
>setup one teeny tiny bit.
>I am simply talking about
>my experiences with it and
>what I have found.
>I know you have it
>working good people talk about
>it alot. I just
>thought the larger the prop
>the better in my situation
>and the Macs was not
>letting it go.
>
>DMoon

Doug, Now that I see that you were working with the extream end of the envlope YES you need more prop. It's funny that when we work on a set up it works in some parts of the country and other it sucks. I think that high air temp hurts most pipe runs, to the point of takeing up quilting.

Scott(no disrespect)riese

PolarFleece works good here, all year 'round! I would be willing to work with a light/quiet Randy or Art muffler if I thought I could actually get one before Christmas. Steve