P-38 warbird

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 10:32 AM (CST)
 
We have moved and the workshop is sort of back in action. A lot of interest has been shown in the subject item. Preliminary doodles indicate that it will be BIG! For two LA 25's it will spec out at:
area 540 sq ", span 66", length 45", 18" between the two booms. It will certainly be stable on the ground! Do I proceed with this big dude or move on to another project? Considering the large size, let me know your interest level.

Don

p.s. My address info has been updated in the PAMPA web site.

Press on with pride!
There are at least two of us here in Tulsa anxiously waiting for this one. It was good to see you at the contest this past weekend.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 11:08 AM (CST)
 
Don,
Sounds like a very interesting project. At 66 in span and only 540 sq in this sounds like a very high aspect ratio wing.
Is this to get the P38 look right?
I assume this is a Stunter and not a "pure scale" subject.
Can't wait to see it. I've always had a weak spot for the P38.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 05:27 PM (CST)
 
Don,
66"? I think I'd cheat the scale outline a bit more, maybe a lot more, and try to stay in the 56"-58" range. 66" sounds to me like a heck of a lot of frontal area, and also just a darn big airplane for two .25's to drag through the air, and then there's transporting the thing. A .25 does just fine on an ARF Flite Streak that weighs practically nothing, but the P-38 will be a whole different animal. Just my two cents. :

A P 38 is the one twin engine CL I would be very interested in building. Please keep us informed with any information you can.

THIS one might even get me building again...

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 01:37 PM (CST)
 
I have two FP-25's just waiting for a big bird. If you kit it, I will buy it. What are the other spec's? (profile vs. full body) How about a ball park price? I know it won't fit in either car but I can get a truck to take it to the field. Larry

I am with the Catster. I for sure am waiting for the plans. Good meeting you in Tulsa last weekend.
Lee TGD

Lee TGD
Broken Arrow, Ok.

I will press on. May be able to shrink the overall size a bit. The problem with the 38 is that it had a small, high aspect ratio wing. As it is I am widening the chord more than I would really like to. The model will be a profile as were the other warbirds. Since weighing the LA 26 I think I can use a bit less airplane. Will post progress reports as it gets closer to final form.

For those that got the P-40 C and Q plan, it would be real easy to add one more variant. Swap the C nose for a radial engine cowl and get a P-36! Sorry I didn't think of this at the time and include it on the plans.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 06:06 PM (CST)
 
Larry- It will be plans only, two or three sheets plus building info. I usually include the 3 view I design from but my P-38 source is copyrighted so I will simply reference the book I am using on this one. Cost will probably be about $18.00 rolled and shipped based on past costs.

Sounds like a prime candidate for a new offering Larry! Actually, ANY of Hutch's designs would be!

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 07:12 PM (CST)
 
Is this the very nice (Classic-legal) Lew McFarland Lightning, originally powered by Veco 19's ?

Andy Lee built a nice P-38 profile powered by two Enya 19s. He brought it to Brodaks a few years ago and flew it. Pretty cool! And painted bright red!

Scott

I'll have to get plans for this'n. Don't shorten the span for me. I might make the wings removeable just outboard of the engine nacelles. Maybe that would be something you could include on the plans? Steve

You're the designer, not me.

But based upon seeing Joe Bellcrank's Twin Flite Streak--a quite large model, I was surprised to see--fly with two 21FPs, two 25LAs sounds like a *lot* of motor.

For John's next TFS he is considering something like McCoy 19s, possibly 15FPs.

Still, you're the designer...

LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 03:05 AM (CST)
 
Yeah there are two p 38 plans out. They dont look like a p 38.
66" is not that big . bring it on. It will fit in the wagon. Really looking fwd to a p 38 worth building.
Count me in Mr Hutchinson.
The #1 ace in the USA flew a p 38. A real fighter with devastating fire power.

>Yeah there are two p 38 plans out. They dont look like a p
>38.
>66" is not that big . bring it on. It will fit in the wagon.
>Really looking fwd to a p 38 worth building.
>Count me in Mr Hutchinson.
>The #1 ace in the USA flew a p 38. A real fighter with
>devastating fire power.

I think I just heard a "Bong"

One never knows do one? Don and I are talking.His Profile Warbirds look great.

www.blueskymodels.net

10-4 ... 'specially that F6F.

Thank you Don. I will take a set when ever you get them ready. Please let me know when and where to send the check. Larry

Don,
Whatever size you think looks right is what I want. I own a van so carrying it will not be a problem!
Chris...

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-06 AT 03:07 AM (CST)
 
Mike I'm like you F6F wow. Don gave me the T-6 couple years ago and have flown the heack out of it. I think a F6F would be the next one.

Don and I will definitely be working together to provide laser ribs for both the F6F and the P38. Any more than the ribs, would depend upon interest. Short kits, or full kits?

Full kits please Tom.
Not everyone is a hardcore, points chasing stunt pilot. A selection of high quality, semi-scale Warbird kits being available would be a HUGELY welcome addition to our hobby/sport in my book. Of course the Brodak kits are out there, but Don's designs have the potential to take it to a whole new level. Maybe we would even see a nice shot in the arm in the profile scale world as a bonus!
Bring 'em on!!!

We are still in the process of organizing a new home but I will be putting pencil to paper soon. Big question. How much fuel does an LA 25 need for a complete pattern? I'm guessing 3 ounces should be enough, can anyone confirm?

I think 3 ounces would be plenty Don, at least for a .25LA-S. The .40LA-S's are only using 3 1/2 to 4 I think.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-06 AT 05:16 PM (CST)
 
How much dose the two 25 fp's weight compair to a couple of fox 35 ?

I think about the same.

>We are still in the process of organizing a new home but I
>will be putting pencil to paper soon. Big question. How much
>fuel does an LA 25 need for a complete pattern? I'm guessing
>3 ounces should be enough, can anyone confirm?
>
>Don

Don,

Three ounces will be plenty. I'm guessing you will be short-tanking to something like 2.5 to 2.75 ounces for contest work.

All the warbirds so far have been built without ply doublers up front, only hard 1/8th balsa. I also mount the tank between the motor mounts so do not recommend Fox 35's as you cannot shim the tank high enough and they vibrate. A smooth running OS 40 or Magnum 36XL works fine in this setup. The P-38 will be drawn for the OS 25 LA.

Thanks Don for all the info. When you're ready please let me know so I can get you the funds and address. Larry

I live out West where "seldom is heard a discouraging word" but I will admit I have not drawn line one so far, BUT, I have finally gotten the control system* figured out and the rest is easy so progress reports will be forthcoming. Intent is to have both the flap and elevator pushrods exit under the wing and both flap and elevator horns on the bottom side. (keep all that ugly stuff hidden)

*Making two bellcranks rotate in opposite directions and track together is not as easy as it seems! Final answer is pretty simple, (compared to some of the goofy schemes I have considered) and will be easy enough to do by a reasonably experienced builder.

>*Making two bellcranks rotate in opposite directions and
>track together is not as easy as it seems! Final answer is
>pretty simple, (compared to some of the goofy schemes I have
>considered) and will be easy enough to do by a reasonably
>experienced builder.

Progress is our most important problem

How about those Russian X-cranks for the F2b planes of the 1960's?

Just a bellcrank with two output arms, one inboard, one outboard, driving both flap & flipper from the bottom.

I am using cruciform bellcranks to keep all the control horns on the bottom of the surfaces. The tricky part is getting two of them to track accuratly. I will have one in each boom to drive the flaps and will run two pushrods back to the elevator on the insides of the booms. This is what makes it tricky, they have to rotate in opposite directions to do this. I do have it figured out and am merrily proceeding with the drawings.

Full kits please Tom.
Not everyone is a hardcore, points chasing stunt pilot. A selection of high quality, semi-scale Warbird kits being available would be a HUGELY welcome addition to our hobby/sport in my book. Of course the Brodak kits are out there, but Don's designs have the potential to take it to a whole

ANY CHANCE OF GETTING HUTCH TOGETHER WITH LARRY RICHARDS ON JUST THIS ONE??? GUARANTEE IT WOULD ACHIEVE LEGEND STATUS!

Don,

The Dauntless and T-6 plans are very nice!

Looking forward to the P-38 but I really wish I had a good set of plans for a Grumman Iron Works Skyrocket or Bristol Beaufighter for two 15s.

Regards,

Don Wilkins

Did you settle on the wingspan then?

No, but it will probably be around 65 inches. First shot at the wing has a very small chord at the tip. I will keep massaging it until I have a reasonable compromise between scale and performance. It is only 5.25 now and that looks real small for a stunt airplane.

Don,

The P-38 sounds great. Please add me to your list of those "ready to buy", and just tell me where and when to send you the $$$.

I like the idea of a good twin profile stunt plane. I have been lost in the forbidden land of R/C for a few decades, but I have finally come to my senses and returned to my roots!

The time in R/C was not a total loss though. I did learn to like our plug in wings on my 35% IMAC planes. Like Steve and others have suggested, I too think plug in outer wings would be a big help to us all.

It is very easy to do, and can be done with no weight gain. If you get a chance, please look at a Horizon models Mini Funtana Electric ARF. These removable, plug in wings are about the same size as your P-38 removable outer panels will be. This would make transporting the plane Sooooooo much easier. And it would also make building a lot easier too. The lead outs could easily be clepped on through a hatch in the center section, or ...?

Thanks for providing us with great new designs, and I look forward to buying your plans, and getting a kit, if one becomes available.

The kit is in our future!

>The time in R/C was not a total loss though. I did learn to
>like our plug in wings on my 35% IMAC planes. Like Steve and
>others have suggested, I too think plug in outer wings would
>be a big help to us all.
>
>It is very easy to do, and can be done with no weight gain.
>If you get a chance, please look at a Horizon models Mini
>Funtana Electric ARF. These removable, plug in wings are
>about the same size as your P-38 removable outer panels will
>be. This would make transporting the plane Sooooooo much
>easier. And it would also make building a lot easier too.
>The lead outs could easily be clepped on through a hatch in
>the center section, or ...?
>###############################################################
Would having only the outer wing panel removable be of enough help? That way you wouldn't need to mess with the controls.

>
>>The time in R/C was not a total loss though. I did learn to
>>like our plug in wings on my 35% IMAC planes. Like Steve and
>>others have suggested, I too think plug in outer wings would
>>be a big help to us all.
>>
>>It is very easy to do, and can be done with no weight gain.
>>If you get a chance, please look at a Horizon models Mini
>>Funtana Electric ARF. These removable, plug in wings are
>>about the same size as your P-38 removable outer panels will
>>be. This would make transporting the plane Sooooooo much
>>easier. And it would also make building a lot easier too.
>>The lead outs could easily be clepped on through a hatch in
>>the center section, or ...?
>>###############################################################
>Would having only the outer wing panel removable be of
>enough help? That way you wouldn't need to mess with the
>controls.

Good idea Phil,

It would help a lot. A 61" wing glued to a long twin fuselage would make a very large and awkward load in any car or van. Anything we can do to help this would be an improvement. Your idea would meet the KIS rule, and help. The 2/3 wing would be the size of a FS at aprox. 42". Still a van full, but better!

It is amazing how easy it is to carry, transport, and store a .40 -.60 size plane when it is in two parts. My guess is that with more "Retreads" returning to CL from R/C we may soon see more 2 (or 3) piece CL planes.

IMHO, I think we in CL can learn from the "take apart" ideas from the R/C world. CF tubing is very strong and light and it makes great wing joiners while serving double duty as the wing spar. ... Time will tell?

Just a note from the twin man. 540sqs. is pretty small for a pair of 25`s. The Flight streak that John Miller flies is 700sqs. and flies with a pair of 20`s....And still flies on one eng. Food for thought.

Your Bud
Gordy

Hi Gordy-

Thanks for the note. I would love to make it bigger but want to keep it to a somewhat manageble size. I first suggested two 15's but popular opinion said two 25's. Actually, span is 65 ins and wing area 563 sq ins now so if the weight is kept down around 50 ounces, I think it will be OK. Can't be much more overpowered than a Nobler with a Super Tigre 46 which we have seen at VSC.

Hi Don,

FWIW, I think two .25s will be perfect. The OS .25s are great little, engines. This size will also allow the use of 3 bladed props and still have pleanty of power. Like the others, I think .15s would be on the edge of underpowered all the time. Thanks again for your excellent designs, and your hard work poviding the rest of us with plans for planes we could never design ourselves!

I promised progress reports so here's the first:

Preliminary drawings on plain white paper completed. Now in process of transferring to final drawings on vellum. Have wing (the biggest task, what with the ribs!) done and profile of fuselage and booms drawn. So far looking good. This will definitely be a builders project, lots of fun but not difficult for the average modeller.

Don and I have been discussing this project. I hope to have laser cut ribs available for the P=38 available soon after the drawings are completed. I will also have Laser ribs available to the F6F ##### Cat soon.

www.blueskymodels.net