Stuka Stunt Control Line Forum
Archive, 2000–2021 · recovered from the Internet Archive
Forums › Stuka Stunt Main Forum

tip weight question

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 20 of 20 known posts recovered

Patternflyer70 · Oct 03, 2006 04:18 PM

#0 source
What is the average weight used on the tip of a stunt plane. I've got 1 oz on the tip of my Vector, but I am not sure if it may be too much. When balancing the plane without the lines hooked up it falls to the outside wing pretty quickly.
Thanks

Jim Pollock · Oct 03, 2006 04:24 PM

#1 source
LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-06 AT 04:26 PM (CST)
 
Well,

Best way to tell I know of is to do some hard ouside square loops. If the outboard wing pops up while doing it from the up leg to level, then you probably have too much tip weight. Back off on the weight until it doesn't pop the outboard tip upward on a hard outside corner. Use the outside corner because it's easier to seen the outboard wing come up than it is to see it go down on an inside loop.


Jim Pollock

Patternflyer70 · Oct 03, 2006 04:40 PM

#2 source
I need a little clarification. Should I be looking for the wing to pop when I am going from level to the negative push, or on the downline when pushing to level.

Bob Reeves · Oct 03, 2006 06:11 PM

#4 source
I discovered the best way to see "hinging" is from level flight, pull a tight inside corner, climb vertical to about 45 then do a tight outside corner. If it shows you the top of the outboard wing on the outside corner you probably have too much tip weight... The odds are it is also dropping the outboard on the inside but like already said the outside is easier to see.

kvarley · Oct 03, 2006 04:42 PM

#3 source
Many factors determine how much tip weight is required .One of the most important things is how much wing differential you have . If you use equal span wings then much more tip weight is required. On my Oriental plus with equal wings I ended up with about 2 ounces , More typically with about 3/4 inch differential you end up with about 3/4 ounce for a 650 square inch ship . The only way to get it right is to keep flying it and watch carefully for hinging ,which is a sign of too much tip weight.Keith Varley

Patternflyer70 · Oct 03, 2006 06:52 PM

#5 source
Thanks for the tips guys. What will happen if there is not enough weight on the tip? I'm sure if it is severely under weight it will crash, but how will I know if it is slighly under weight?

Brett Buck · Oct 03, 2006 07:31 PM

#6 source
>Thanks for the tips guys. What will happen if there is not
>enough weight on the tip? I'm sure if it is severely under
>weight it will crash, but how will I know if it is slighly
>under weight?

It will have less line tension, and will slightly roll in at you on corners. What you want is to have as much as necessary to make the airplane stay level in maneuvers. But, the best strategy for adjusting the tipweight for those without a lot of experience is to keep adding it 1/8-1/4oz at a time until something obviously bad happens (like, it obviously rolls away from you), then remove the last piece you put in. This gives you the maximum amount possible for however you are flying, and thus gives you the most robust line tension.

As you get more experience, the "obviously bad" point becomes more and more refined, and you will probably end up with less tip weight as the need for excess line tension fades, and the need to do clean and hard corners increases.

Brett

Patternflyer70 · Oct 03, 2006 07:54 PM

#7 source
If there is not enough tip weight, can it make the lines loosen on the 45 and overhead flying? I know lead out position can affect that as well, but am curious about the tip weight also.

ty marcucci · Oct 03, 2006 08:31 PM

#8 source
OH yes. It is called "free flight". I once forgot to put in any tip weight and had a very funny flight in the over heads. Now I put in 3/4 oz when I build the plane and go from there.

Brett Buck · Oct 03, 2006 10:45 PM

#10 source
>If there is not enough tip weight, can it make the lines
>loosen on the 45 and overhead flying? I know lead out
>position can affect that as well, but am curious about the
>tip weight also.

Absolutely,

Brett

Mike S · Oct 03, 2006 10:41 PM

#9 source
Another way to do it (this should be under the "dumb things" thread) is to neglect to tighten the screw holding the cover on the weight box and watch your tip weight go sailing into space during flight, leaving your Cardinal with no tip weight. This is a really good illustration of the importance of proper (or any) tip weight. Better if done on a really windy day like I did.

Mike S

Cowboystunt1 · Oct 04, 2006 10:36 AM

#11 source
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 10:41 AM (CST)
 
Just for what it's worth!!!

Since no one else mentioned it...sometimes it's difficult to separate the effect of too much tip weight from flap differential effect.
By that I mean the difference in effectiveness of one flap over the other.

A lot of typical stunt designs have longer inboard wings and longer inboard flaps. This sometimes creates a situation where the inboard wing lifts more on inside and outside maneuvers causing the outboard wing to appear to drop. This can be visibly evidenced by the preponderence of added "tabs" on the outboard flaps of many (even some top flyers) airplanes.

I mention this because sometimes no amount of weight removal will "fix" the problem that seems to be too much tip weight.

At some point lack of line tension can become a problem and still have the attendant wing drop on hard maneuvers.

Of course this problem is usually accompanied by an adverse yaw effect also but that may be more difficult to detect.

Sealing hinge lines can sometimes improve this situation but often it means resorting to a flap tab.

I just mention this so those less experienced at trimming than the experts here, can be aware of the possibility while chasing the tip weight problem.

Edited to correct a "mis" statement.

Randy C

Bob Reeves · Oct 04, 2006 03:10 PM

#12 source
Good point..

I would say the best one could do if learning how to trim is take an ARF Cardinal, put an LA or ST 46 on the nose, bench trim it as best you can using one of the many articles written on the subject and go to town playing with control response, tip weight, flap warp, lead-out position etc.

If something makes it fly quirky move it back if it makes it fly better see how far you can go before it screws something up. Add two ounces of tip weight, bet you can see it hinge

If you screw up so what it's an ARF....

Igor Burger · Oct 04, 2006 03:23 PM

#13 source
>>>sometimes it's difficult to separate the effect of too much tip weight from flap differential effect<<<

I would say it is mistake even think that it is anything similar. Flaps tab has another function and if there is what to replace its function then it is rudder, not tip weight.

Tip weight is static load of outer wingm while tab makes differences in load between soft and heavy loads on wing in maneuvers.

Patternflyer70 · Oct 04, 2006 03:33 PM

#14 source
The plane does have equal length wings. I was flying it with 1 oz. of tip weight. I added another 1/2 oz. I will see what happens.

Cowboystunt1 · Oct 04, 2006 05:56 PM

#15 source
Igor,
I'm afraid I really don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that flap differential won't cause a similar appearance to too much tip weight. If you are I strongly disagree. You can prove it to yourself by adding a tab to the inboard flap and flying an otherwise trimmed stunter. I have.

I'm not trying to say that dynamically the effect is the same, certainly it is not. But to the neophyte learning to trim a stunt ship it might be difficult to discern whether wing drop (outboard) or wing (rise) inboard is caused by one or the other.

I fail to see how an application of rudder would do anything except exercerbate an out of trim flap differential. The differential primarily affects roll and the rudder primarily affects yaw. Yes I know there is some coupling but not in the primary mode.

Could you please explain further what you mean. Or maybe I've just learned nothing in 50 years of trimming stunt ships (could be).

Randy C

Igor Burger · Oct 05, 2006 06:56 AM

#16 source
>>>Are you saying that flap differential won't cause a similar appearance to too much tip weight.<<<

No. I say that flaps differential and tip weight are two distict trimming tools trimming another things.

Tip weight is for sidewise ballancing wing. That is clear.

The tab also does that, but its effect depends on flap deflection. You can see that even large tab has only minor effect in level flight. But the tab is very effective if maneuvers when the flap is defected. It is because the tab extends area of wing only little bit, but the same tab extends deflected flap much more (because of flap to wing chord ratio). So tab is primary used to make proper ballance in case that tip weight is proper for expample in level but too much in maneuver or vice versa.

Simply if plane is well ballanced in level flight and round figures but rolls out in hard corners, then it needs larger tab.

And - the same thing can be solved by rudder (to some extend) ... so that is why I mentioned rudder, but it is coupled with yaw. So if that rudder is not able to solve the problem, or if the yaw is out of usefull range, it needs tab, and that allows to trim yaw and asymetric roll separately.

Cowboystunt1 · Oct 05, 2006 10:08 AM

#18 source
Igor,
Well, basically I agree with what you've said and I don't think my earlier post said to trim a "too much tip weight situation", with a flap tab, only that the visual effect of too much tip weight and flap differential can seem similar and as you've stated need to be delt with separately.
I don't think we have any argument.

Randy C

ama21835 · Oct 05, 2006 09:14 AM

#17 source
>What is the average weight used on the tip of a stunt plane.
>I've got 1 oz on the tip of my Vector,

Average means nothing !!

And neither does 1 ounce !!

The tip weight required is enough to balance one specific airplane, including the leadouts and leadout guide, which are significant variables.

My method:
Lift the model by the prop shaft and rudder and see which way it tips. If it tips just barely outboard, you are safe to fly. If it tips inward, you will eat the plane if you don't add more weight.

If you wanna be really scientific, tape 1/2 ounce to the inboard tip and add outboard weight until it just balances. You will then have 1/2 ounce of TRUE tip weight.

Patternflyer70 · Oct 05, 2006 07:43 PM

#19 source
I flew the plane tonight with 1.5 oz of tip weight. I couldn't seem to get it to hinge. It was pretty windy though, I'm gonna try it on a calm day before I make any more changes.