Unusual CL Racer

This is a very unusual Control Line plane posted on eBay. Maybe somebody knows the builder or the model of plane. Maybe someone will post the picture here, I don't know how.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-GAS-BALSA-WOOD-MODEL-AIRPLANE_W0QQitemZ200032873135QQihZ010QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200032873135

Looks like a Berkeley Key Det Racer to me.

Bill Morell
Ontario, California

HI Bill. Wasn't the Key Det a smaller model with an 18 inch wing span?? Or are my eyes just dark brown??? LOL

Well dang, should have left off the "Det".

Bill Morell
Ontario, California

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-06 AT 02:42 AM (CST)
 
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"I REALLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THESE I JUST CAME INTO A BUNCH OF THEM I KNOW THE WHEELS SAY VECO. AND THE WIRES ON THE WINGS IF YOU PULL ONE THE BACK WINGS COME UP PULL THE OTHER WIRE AND THE WINGS GO DOWN. VERY CLEAN FOR ITS AGE VERY STURDY DOES HAVE A LITTLE CRACKING ON ONE WING LOOK AT PICTURES BUT VERY STURDY STILL YET. THE SIZE FROME ONE WING END TO THE OTHER IS ABOUT 29 1/2 INCHES. FROM FRONT TO BACK IS ABOUT 22 INCHES"

Regards

Mike

I came into some old planes from various sources in much the same condition over the years. My favorite is the old Walt Musciano Staggerwing Beech. (32" wingspan) Plane is white, looks like Aerogloss, and the trim lines down the fuse are right on the parting line, (black & gold, 1/16" each) making the parting line next to invisible. Windows are cracked and smoky, but dried-up paint is the worst thing. I thought workmanship was shoddy at first, but close examination showed paint to be the culprit.
Restoration of one of these is nearly as time-consuming as building a clone! Worth every minute, though. The plane was a gift.

The first time I ever saw someone stunt who knew what they were doing and my first sighting of a Fox .35 was watching a BEAUTIFUL scale Beech staggerwing in action.

After reading this thread, I'll bet that the kit was a Scientific.

I'm starting to appreciate Muciano models more and more.

I have that kit. It is pretty neat, though the stab is real low on the fuse so that the top can be removed to monkey with all of the ignition stuff. Neat kit.
Chris...

That is a model of Ben Howards "Pete". I think it may have been an early Sterling kit when they did only scale models ie, the SE5A, Nieuport 28, etc.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-06 AT 08:17 PM (CST)
 
I would say that is a Berkley "Key" teamracer, I built one around
1954, with a Mac .29RR, still have the engine. The Sterling "Pete" kit
has a builtup wing, not a solid one.

Walter is correct on this. I recently aquired a Berkley Key and this looks like my kit. The Sterling Pete as stated had a built up wing. The photo shows a flat solid wing. To my amazment my kit even had the Key decal.
Cheers,Dan

It's a "Key". The Key-det was the little 1/2A job.

Ya got me, but it's WAY cool!

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Looks like your basic "B" Team Racer to me, and not too well executed at that, note the flat wing and external controls. The Berkley "Key", if I remember my long departed one, had an inverted engine and a formed sheet metal cowl.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-06 AT 10:04 PM (CST)
 
>The Berkley "Key", if I remember my long departed one, had
>an inverted engine and a formed sheet metal cowl.
============================================================

The inverted engine, metal cowl kit was Berkeley's "Quest", a Keith Storey design, as was the "Key"....which is the design shown on the eBay photo.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Mikey,

My bad, you're right, of course!

Is this a fiberglass over foam fuselage?

No, the fuselage is carved & hollowed balsa (which was a real challenge with Berkeley's version of balsa).

Yah think! I wore out a bunch of the #20 blades, till my Grandfather showed me how to really sharpen a pocket knife, and what coarse sandpaper was for.

>Is this a fiberglass over foam fuselage?

I agree that it sure looks like foam in the photos with the cowling off?

Dennis Pedersen <><

Too cool. One of our club members gave me one of those and it's hanging in my model barn.
Have we definitively come up with an answer as to what it is?
:") Lou

>Have we definitively come up with an answer as to what it
>is?
>:") Lou
============================================================
Have you read all the above posts? It's a "Key"...designed by Keith Storey and once kitted by Berkeley.

It's also a very sub-par job of building and finishing.

>It's also a very sub-par job of building and finishing.
>
>Mike Keville
>Tucson, AZ, USA

Be gentle, Mike. How many 50-year-old models have you seen (other than Barbara Eden <Grin>) that looked better? And that Key has been around the circle a few times; notice the crash repairs on the outboard side of the fuselage.

Ralph,
Sorry, Barbara is about 75!
Chris...

>This is a very unusual Control Line plane posted on eBay.
>Maybe somebody knows the builder or the model of plane.
>Maybe someone will post the picture here, I don't know how.

It sure looks like the Berkeley "Key" to me, but man, the poor thing has certainly been abused !!! This is from the October, 1949 issue of Flying Models:

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The construction of the model is a real puzzle....the ad says "Precision carve fuselage", but the photo obviously shows a great deal of Styrofoam through out the fuselage. My best guess is that the builder caved up a Styrofoam blank for the fuselage, covered it with several layers of fiberglass, and then left most of the Styrofoam in place. Even the engine bearers appear to have been in place , and the Styrofoam "cast" around them. Very "in-terr-rest-ing!"

Cheers,

Warren Wagner

p.s. Ron Burns....is your memory getting like the rest of ours? <g>

>Warren Wagner
>
>p.s. Ron Burns....is your memory getting like the rest of
>ours?

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Warren,

What were we talking about?

Ron B.

Mike: Let's be a little easy on the original builder. This Key is the equivalent of a Barn Find, and probably has been sitting around for a half century. We also cannot estimate how much wear and tear it received when it (hopefully) was campaigned, way back then.

Team Race was a great AMA event.

Warren,

I don't see indications of foam use. Sure, repair in front of the "cockpit" shows crack lines, mismatched paint edges, etc., ...

BTW, I believe the major change made by the builder, or rebuilder, of this Berkeley KEY is the upper fuselage. In the striped box, the upper was one piece factory 'carved', and meant to be removed in one piece from engine cowl to and including the fin/rudder. (Top and bottom fuse were a sort of large version of the Enterprise or Scientific 'log' fuselage thing.)

I think the parting line is just barely visible in the ad picture. I have a set of plans for the KEY around here somewhere, and may be able to confirm/refute this. The way this model is done is bound to be stronger than the original layout. I recall being not very impressed with the structural sturdiness of engine and wing mount, landing gear mount, attachment of the one piece upper fuse...

Also, I believe the landing gear didn't have the axle wire added to the dural legs. Another sensible change...

Warren,
Where are you getting this foam stuff? The thing is a Berekeley kit, it is made of blasa wood!
This pre-dates Varieze's by some 25 years.
Chris...

I contacted the seller. He will be putting the others on Ebay shortly. He says that this one is the best.

Lordy, I may have to get plans for this beauty.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-06 AT 09:35 PM (CST)
 
John,

RE: Plans for the Berkeley KEY, if no one else comes up with them over the next week, I'll see if I can locate the set I have for you.

I'll be away this coming week, however.

(edit - spelling)

This looks like a Key but it looks like it had a bigger motor in it than a .29 that they were designed for.

Some people would fly these in speed events.

Regards,
Dave Cook

That plane looks like it has plenty of potential! Buy it, clean it up and repaint it, buy an engine from Crash2Much and we'll see you at the Virgil Wilbur contest later this month!

The photo below shows a vintage B-TR that was refurbished by Dave Dawson of the Valley Circle Burners. It looked worse than the eBay special before he got his hands on it. This plane is now owned by SCAR club member and racing event director Darrell Albert.

Dave Hull
LA_Flyer

Strange landing gear. Hang on or drop off?

As I mentioned I have a decent kit of this. I am working on a Firecracker B-Team Racer. Have parts for a second one also. If any interest for the Berkley Key make an offer. Kit is complete and the log is very good. Kit box is good/ plans/ even has the decal.
Cheers,Dan

That's the way it was done way back when. A lot of the races were held over grass, thus needing a lot more forward and robust setup. I think that if flown today it would be a handful to land on asphalt unless done verrrry carefully and slowly.

Anyhow, that particular airplane is too pretty to race now that Dave Dawson has performed his magic on it.

One interesting fact from the Team Race days...a number of builders opted to build their cowl completely around the motor, with no cut lines. There was no way to get to it unless you performed Xacto surgery.

About 10 years ago, I restored a Veco Redskin Team Racer for a guy in the neighborhood. I wanted to remove the Twin Stack OS 29, but couldn't.

Didn't matter, though. The, which hadn't been run in decades, started on the second try and first try on the only two runs I attempted. The owner had squirted oil in the motor every six months, and turned it over a few times.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-06 AT 07:25 AM (CST)
 
>Warren,
>Where are you getting this foam stuff? The thing is a
>Berekeley kit, it is made of blasa wood!
>This pre-dates Varieze's by some 25 years.
>Chris...

Cris,

Did you see all of the photos from the ebay listing? Those areas that look like "little tiny white bee-bees, all packed in together" sure do look like Styrofoam to me.

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And Berkeley didn't produce carved balsa fuselages that were 1/32" thick. I stand by my original thought....looks like a custom made fuselage of Styrofoam and fiberglass....perhaps several years ahead of its' time.

Here's a second photo:

[photo not recovered: 45279b85234be07f.jpg]

Generally when there is a factory job of carving a bulk piece like a fuselage, the resulting side-wall thickness of balsa will be like 1/4" or so. I see no evidence of a original balsa wall in either the top or bottom half of the fuselage.

Doesn't anyone else see this as Stryofoam?

Cheers.

I suspect it's just dirty white paint, and the "fiberglass" is dirt. Intriguing, though.

hi,i will agree with warren.years ago when i was young we used to fly in contest,which included,b-speed,proto speed, "rat raceing,etc.looking at the pictures it sure looks like styrofoam,obviously cutting down on the weight factor.we were always looking for ways to make the planes lighter.brings back good memories george eckhardt

I wrote to the seller re foam filler. His response:

Item: VINTAGE GAS BALSA WOOD MODEL AIRPLANE (200032873135)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
troytrading1 is the seller.

hi I think there all balsa , but i am not sure, I feel real stupid but I just dont know nothing about these planes that why I try to take as many picture I can. really sorry I am not much help.

If I remember right, back when B Team Race was still a national event, styrofoam and fiber glas were still an industrial product. In those days you learned to carve and sand. Now the surface may be lots of dope over silk to get durability and finish. If anybody does come up with a set of workable plans I am interested. ---DOC Holliday

It sold for $71.01 somebody wanted it awfully bad

Bigiron

There'll be 11 more on the block shortly ... so he says.

> It sold for $71.01 somebody wanted it awfully bad
=======================================================

Someone could probably get that original Berkeley kit from "Dankar" for less than that...or could definitely get a set of plans for MUCH less.

Of course he'd then have to actually build it---an effort that seems to be falling out of favor these days.

Mike: No. I sold one about a year ago on ebay for something north of $100.

Yeah, that's the 'Bay, alright. I was talking about modeler-to-modeler.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-06 AT 11:04 PM (CST)
 
I gots to agree, I had a pristine Quest kit, and was offered an almost ung#*LY amount of $$$, so of course I sold it.

>. . . I had a pristine Quest kit . .
=======================================

Walter: Wish I'd known that!

Sorry about that, we needs to talk more often.