Electronic Engineering and Control Line Flying

I have noticed that there are a number of EE types on the forum. I wonder if they fly CL for the same reason as I do?

From my mid 20's until about 5 years ago, electronic design and manufacture was my profession. In the early days of RC I was not interested because on weekends "I never wanted to see another blankety-blank electron!" I've designed some thousands of items ranging through a syntesized VHF TX/RX, a main-line 25kV locomotive drive and a 25,000 amp controlled rectifier. I loved the challenges, but that was WORK.

So fun flying was always, and only Control Line.

When I came to the UK 5 years ago I got a job in Service (linear accelerators) - zero design required. Modern RC doesn't require any electronics knowledge at all - but after all this time it doesn't light my fire. Electronically speaking, compared to a 25kW HF ISB transmitter they are really small beer.

I wonder what the other EE's and hams think? Do you fly CL for the same reason? And of course the FEEL of the plane on the lines!

Feel of the airplane in flight, general craftsmanship and beauty of CL stunters, historic interest from high school days (flying 1/2As with brother and father), and hanging with a quality group of people..

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"When a young man begins to go down hill everything seems to be greased for the occasion." -Josh Billings

I'd agree with Larry 100% as far as CL stunt goes. I must admit, however that I fly CL sport (marginal stunter -- just poke funny-shaped holes in the sky), some FF, and a fair amount of RC.

I just like model airplanes.

Bill Jacklin
(A Ringmaster/Fox .35 kinda' guy)

P.S. And model railroading, too.

I've always found CL guys to be relaxed kind of people.

And as said above, I love building and flying. Do some old-time FF with RC assist too, for nostalgia's sake.

>I'd agree with Larry 100% as far as CL stunt goes. I must
>admit, however that I fly CL sport (marginal stunter -- just
>poke funny-shaped holes in the sky), some FF, and a fair
>amount of RC.
>
>I just like model airplanes.
>
>
>Bill Jacklin
>(A Ringmaster/Fox .35 kinda' guy)
>
>P.S. And model railroading, too.

I am right along with Bill. Even including the railroading (G Scale, primarily...) The R/C I fly is almost all electric. The EE coming out again, I guess since I can't take the air-air missiles or JDAMs home from work and fly them....

>I have noticed that there are a number of EE types on the
>forum. I wonder if they fly CL for the same reason as I do?
>

I like it because there are no electronics, and even better, no freakin' computers.

>>I have noticed that there are a number of EE types on the
>>forum. I wonder if they fly CL for the same reason as I do?
>>
>
> I like it because there are no electronics, and even
>better, no freakin' computers.
>
> Brett

Yet.....

Ummmm.

I tought the timers electrics used were computerized???

>>>I have noticed that there are a number of EE types on the
>>>forum. I wonder if they fly CL for the same reason as I do?
>>>
>>
>> I like it because there are no electronics, and even
>>better, no freakin' computers.
>>
>> Brett
>
>Yet.....

... this is VERY skeptical

right now I have 2 processors (governor + timer)

but I had also this (and next is on way):

> I like it because there are no electronics, and even
>better, no freakin' computers.

If you used a PC, you wouldn't have been so frustrated with them. Macs will do that to you.

Steve

P.S. How long did you think this post was going to go for before some nitwit like me would make a dumb joke like that.

>> I like it because there are no electronics, and even
>>better, no freakin' computers.
>
>If you used a PC, you wouldn't have been so frustrated with
>them. Macs will do that to you.

Heh! My problem is that Windoze ##### is getting shoved down my throat at work, in addition to the world's only unstable version of Unix, AKA Sun Solaris 9. For anything important I am still using a PowerMac 8600/300 w/OS 8.6 - 8+ years and still works FAR better than my HP P4 "workstation" with W2K.

Then I come home to my $900 iBook, and all is right with the world...

Brett,
I agree - I also had the PC forced on me by the business world, but I still have a Mac Centris 650 that runs fine.
I started with Macs in 1982 and by 1988 ran a $15 Mil/year business on 85 Macs networked running Filemaker. We did everything from order entry through production control, billing and accounts payable. All design and manufacturing engineering was also done on Macs.
I have been involved in many Windows based systems since and none of them were as good or as reliable as the Mac system. It is only in the last few years that Windows has come up to what Macs were doing over 10 years ago.

Regards,
Dave Cook

{And here I thought you had to be some sort of bohemian to own a Mac! }

I'm sure Apple has a great product nowadays; unfortunately, I've already "imprinted" elsewhere. And now I'm too old to change.

Once again, I've demonstrated my life's true purpose: to serve as a bad example.

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"He who trims himself to suit everyone will soon whittle himself away." -Raymond Hull

After Flying RC for a number of years it just wasn't fun. I came back to CL because it is fun! I mostly do scale planes, and have lots of electrical systems in my models: Throttles, retracts, flaps, switches that do things like drop bombs, fuel tanks, open and close canopies. The best part of CL is you can see all of this happen at the end of the lines.

I enjoy RC planes and enjoy electronics in CL planes, but it's the close connection and the actual FEEL of the plane out there that I really like.

We can also enjoy our hobby in a smaller field than RC and that helps keep my neighbors happy, too.

Ron King

I enjoy CL because the airplanes are mechanical devices (or should be). I never put anything electrical in a CL airplane beyond a glowplug (and I wouldn't use that if diesels would run better, and didn't stink so much)
Besides, I'm a mechanical engineer not electronic(whatever that is).

CL airplanes are extensions of the physical world not something full of magic smoke trying to escape. Hmmmm.....

Think I better stop!!!

I have no interest in using an electronic device to (directly) affect its control. However, Bill Jacklin, Gary Marchand, others (e.g. Wild Bill) and I have been wanting to instrument the daylights out of a stunter, to obtain data about everything from engine RPM to 3-axis accelerometer (force), air temperature, engine temperature, battery voltage and current (for electrics) and whatever else we could monitor including air pressure at certain points on the wing airfoil.

Just for the sake of knowing, we'd like to have this data. It would be very interesting to compare some quality stunt flights on different ships with such a data acquisition system. And the cool part is that we can now easily implement such an electronic system in only couple or three cubic inches..

{Yes, I know many people would STILL never accept the 17' radius actual size of our "5' radius" square corner.. )

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"The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas." -Linus Pauling

Some of my C/L models do have some high tech electrical systems on board. They have a set of breaker points, triggering a 15 amp audio transister, connected to a 3 volt coil, thru three nicads, to fire an old Champion Spark plug.

I think I may have offered to do some stuff on tuned pipes using electronically generated pulses and electronic measurements using a scope. A knowledge of resonance, transmission lines etc. helps a lot here.

If it happens, it should be interesting.

Randy,
I too am an ME. I like anything with an IC Engine. For you EE's, IC does not mean Integrated Circuit. One of the best things about C/L is the fact that you feel the airplane in your hand and it is a real, tangable entity.
You are right about those electronic devices working on smoke. When you let it out they sure don't work anymore.
Real airplanes have round motors, two wings, and open cockpits. Real race cars have one switch to ground the mag and shut it off.

The day when I have to program an embedded microprocessor to fly control line is the day when I find another hobby.

I want the most hi-tech thing in my plane to be the engine (and only then hi-tech in the sense of precision manufacturing, unless it is a four stroke).

In addition to the mag switch real race cars have in/out boxes and quick change rear diffs, need push trucks to start them, big wing on the back with side fins and run best on dirt ovals in the midwest!

Naw...REAL race cars have 500 cu. in. handmade V-8s developing 7,000 horsepower on 85% nitro, and they accelerate from a standing start to the quarter-mile in 4.45 seconds at 335 mph.

Mike Keville, NHRA member
Tucson
Yield to temptation -- it may not pass your way again.

Hi Guys,
Lord No leave all the EE work at the shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides CL flying is about as fun as it gets!

No semiconductors, EMI/RFI, No wrist straps, No diodes or flip flops, 555e timer circuits, PCB's, cold joints, bad caps, short circuits, gate drivers, GTO's.

Mike Clark

"Chance Favors The More Prepaired Person"

LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-06 AT 03:50 AM (CST)
 
My feelings too, EXACTLY

Also the "feel" that many have mentioned. That is something unique to C/L.

For the ME guys . . . do you have an equivalent of our "magic smoke"?

Whenever I start teaching a course for our engineers or customers, I always begin by emphasising how important it is never ever to let the smoke out! Once it's out, it never works the same again.

>For the ME guys . . . do you have an equivalent of our
>"magic smoke"?
.
>
>Charles
Charles,
For Large IC engines it is oil. When the oil comes out a hole in the bottom or escapes as a big cloud of smoke out one of the the pipes it is all over but the shouting.

When we were building our first Micro processor control hardware we used to "smoke test" our boards. When we turned on the power if the smoke didn't rise it had passed the first test.

Uncle Mikey,
Does 301 Cubic inches naturally aspirated, 10.12 seconds and 149.87 MPH on 50% Nitro in a B/C , in 1963 count?

>Does 301 Cubic inches naturally aspirated, 10.12 seconds and
>149.87 MPH on 50% Nitro in a B/C , in 1963 count?
==============================================================

You BET it does!

gate drivers, GTO's.
>
>Mike Clark

gate drive, GTO's? I know what you do. IGBT's MOV's ESD Failed heat sinks, fires.....

After work, I sometimes will build a power supply or a battery charger but that is the limit of it.

Dave

I am an Electrical Engineer. Not Electronic, I design medium to large power systems. As some of the others have said, being an EE is my profession, U/C is my hobby, I do not like RC for the same reason, I do not want to mess with anything electrical in my hobby more complicated than attaching a battery to my glow plug. I am a FOX 35/ST G21-35 kind of guy. Rings and Sneekers!!!

LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-06 AT 01:43 PM (CST)
 
For the power electronic guys (and straight EE's) - one of the most exciting things is testing railway traction rectifiers.

These are designed to give about 4kA at 3kV steady state . . . and must be able to withstand a dead short on the track right at the rectifier station.

So you set up the whole device for the customer and put a monstrous DC contactor straight across the output. You then retire to a safe distance and press the button. Instantaneous current reaches about 30 to 40kA (depending on your design). There is one huge BANG, a flash of light and bits of molten metal from the contactor fly all over the place. It's nearly as big an adrenalin rush as flying comabt

If the rectifier works afterwards - you've met the spec!

Who says electronics is boring?

I don't see any special connection between Electronic Engineering and C/L stunt flying. Oh, I think P. Walker is an engineer of some kind, and I happen to be one also (BSEE-electronic- 1961)but now retired.

Among stunt flyers, I think you will find a cross section of every kind of profession or skill. All this hobby requires is tons of patience and the ability to laugh at adversity.

Floyd in OR

LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-06 AT 03:37 PM (CST)
 
The only electricical stuff I knows about is IT (information technology). This is not a happy job. I learned about them there C/L model airyplanes from my folks (now both long gone) years ago and they has done infected me with that and I can't get rid of it! Darn!

JAK

PS: I like Macs too!

LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-06 AT 07:23 PM (CST)
 
I think the difference between RC and C/L is like the difference between streetrod and a hot rod.

A streetrod has a 350 Chevy under the hood and detail box in the trunk.

A hot rod has a flathead Ford under the hood and a toolbox in the trunk.

One is for yuppies and the other is for gearheads.

I worked electronics all my life and never had any desire for ham radio, building electronic gadgets, or home building PC's. Just wanted to hobby at something else. I did do RC for awhile.

I would point out though, that as a matter of antiquity, RC does predate C/L.

Phil

Phil Coopy AMA609

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-06 AT 06:40 PM (CST)
 
Heh! I am systematically eliminating (via eBay) anything & everything that reminds me of R/C.

I have no desire whatsoever to repeat that mistake.

Exception: R/C engines which can be used for C/L with the throttle wired open.

I have no desire to mess with electronics, or (in particular) microprocessors as part of my modelling hobby. I get more than enough of that at work, as my entire career revolves around high integrity embedded systems.

Ya' know, "R/C" originally meant: Remote Controlled.

>I am an Electrical Engineer. Not Electronic, I design
>medium to large power systems. As some of the others have
>said, being an EE is my profession, U/C is my hobby, I do
>not like RC for the same reason, I do not want to mess with
>anything electrical in my hobby more complicated than
>attaching a battery to my glow plug. I am a FOX 35/ST
>G21-35 kind of guy. Rings and Sneekers!!!

I am a electric drive control engineer. A pyhisist by training but a firmware engineer in power electronics to eat.

Dave

Just couldn't resist this reply. I grew up in the late 50's, Doo Wop misic. Listning to, WLS out of Chicago at night and building 1/2 A U-control planes. Fast forward 45 years and no more WLS at night but still have an expanded Doo Wop collection that gets played while I still build and fly controline planes. Just like watching The Lone Ranger on Saturday mornings and flying U-control in the afternoon, I never grew up. I still "like Ike".

Me too, along with JFK.