Stuka colour schemes ?

Hi all

Starting on my RSM Stuka kit soon, part of winter projects,
looking for colour schemes, markings, dont like swastikas
Don Stills original had a second version in white with
USA insignia?
Any suggestions please?
or where to see some please?

Didn't Don Still take one to the World Champs with Dutch (occupied) insignia?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-06 AT 10:16 AM (CST)
 
As luck would have it, just yesterday I bought 151 old Aermodeller mags at a swap.

I am staring at a Jan 61 Aeromodeller (a UK publication) as I type this, and on the cover, there is a nice color photo of Don Still holding his Stuka at the World Championships.

It is basically a light blue and white paint job. The LE is white, with a blue border. After that, a medium blue is sprayed on, followed by a solid light blue. Same for the stab/el. Take a look at the "Update Message" rectangle below...it looks just like that, as far as the darker sprayed blue fades into the solid light blue. Even the blue border is right! The rudder is white, with a fat red stripe surrounded by two dark blue stripes. A US flag is just above, near the rudder tip.The fuselage is light blue, like the wing. The number "6" is on the fuse sides, surrounded by thin blue stripes. Vincent, I don't see any Dutch insignia on this version.

You are right; it has USA on the wing, and red stripes with a blue border. Spinner is red, by the way. It is plastic. TF prop.

I would post the pic right here, but I don't know how to do that. However, private email me your email address, and I will try to send it to you.

Inside, there is a short article, and plans. Don came in 2nd in the 1960 Worlds, and had the best single flight. The article has facts that I didn't know. For example, he used his old black Stuka, not the one I just described. He said the black one was "loose as a goose". The blue one had a new cowl and rudder. At 30 oz and 464 squares, it came in at under 10 oz/ft2. It is claimed that the design went back to 1950! Also, the writer said that Don's bottoms were really low, pulling out with "...wheels on the ground, keeping them there". Fox 25 of course, as Constant Readers of the SSW Forum already will know.

I have the Ambroid kit version, if you will excuse a personal reference here. Mine has a Fox 29. I didn't have the original canopy, so I used a jet Sig one, and put the greenhouse separator on with 1/16" black tape. Some of the later Stukas actually had a combo of a rather streamlined canopy, with with many, many window panes. I went with dark green, and a yellow nose.

The internet is a wonderful thing...

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-06 AT 10:52 AM (CST)
 
You are correct in your reluctance to display the swastika on your model. In the eyes of certain victims, you could be taken for a neo-National Socialist.

Documents in my small collection include the "Stuka" markings for Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Spain, and the RAF. I can't put my hand it at the moment, but I've seen Finland and IRAQ, too.

Coincidently, the movie model of The Hindenberg, at the Disney-MGM park has the "crooked cross" sanitized. Better safe than sorry.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-06 AT 11:26 AM (CST)
 
The Finns used the Swastika, of course, but with a different association, of course, as compared to the Nazis. Currell

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-06 AT 01:13 PM (CST)
 
>The Finns used the Swastika, of course, but with a different
>association, of course, as compared to the Nazis. Currell

Progress is our most important problem

Correctomundo, the Finns actually had it first, then by process of elimination, became a mutual enemy of the Soviet Union.

I also hit on pitchers of some Third Reich aircraft with Czech, Croatian, and Isreali marking. Did you notice that the K-Zoo went the Bulgarian route on theirs?

Politics aside, the Luffwafe's fleet makes for some good-flying models.

Here are some alternative schemes for other nations

http://www.mmpbooks.biz/books/8389450178/ju%2087%20web.pdf

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-06 AT 03:35 PM (CST)
 
I'm not claiming which came first. Please read my post carefully...

Actually, Native Americans may have had this design before anyone. Currell

>I'm not claiming which came first. Please read my post
>carefully...
>
>Actually, Native Americans may have had this design before
>anyone. Currell

It's an ancient symbol, found all over the world including China and South America. Hitler picked it as the emblem of his new political party because he had seen it as part of an archway decoration above a door in the church where he had sung in the choir as a boy.

Indian, actually. Not the American sort. The name itself is from the Sanskrit. The Germans actually called it the "Hakenkreuz".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Wonder what people would think if they came across a Red Swastika Society signboard (like I did some years back...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Swastika_Society

There are apparently people (nothing to do with neo-Nazis) who are upset about the proposed European ban.

http://www.reclaimtheswastika.com/

>>The Finns used the Swastika, of course, but with a different
>>association, of course, as compared to the Nazis. Currell
>
>Progress is our most important
>problem
>
>Correctomundo, the Finns actually had it first, then by
>process of elimination, became a mutual enemy of the Soviet
>Union.
>
>I also hit on pitchers of some Third Reich aircraft with
>Czech, Croatian, and Isreali marking. Did you notice that
>the K-Zoo went the Bulgarian route on theirs?
>
>Politics aside, the Luffwafe's fleet makes for some
>good-flying models.

The Latvians used it also, their version being red on a white disk like the Finns.

Paul,

I respect your opinion and feelings, and only wish to offer a thought usually attributed to Santayana: "Those who will not learn history may be doomed to repeat it" or something to that effect. If we choose not to face the realities of history, we can make the same grave errors, again.

I cherish history, and regret that many people fixate on the external details. Sometimes that goes to the degree that mostly basically decent, honest, loyal citizens in a nation's armed forces are condemned with the same hatred or anger as the mad leaders they happened to serve under.

Examples include the Luftwaffe swastika and the Confederate Battle Flag, in our culture. Judging by the too often flaunted news images, in some other cultures, our Stars and Stripes arouses hatreds in activists; should we avoid marking our models of USN, USMC, USAF or earlier USAAC planes with our national markings?

But, for Vincent's personal preference to NOT use the Hakenkreuz, there are plenty of other, mostly more attractive, markings available for the Ju-87 series, as this thread brings forth in great abundance.

...basically decent, honest, loyal citizens in a
>nation's armed forces are condemned with the same hatred or
>anger as the mad leaders they happened to serve under.
>
>Examples include the Luftwaffe swastika and the Confederate
>Battle Flag, in our culture.

I don't consider Confederate generals as "...mad leaders", as you choose to characterise them. And I don't agree with your equating them to Nazis.

>I don't consider Confederate generals as "...mad leaders",
>as you choose to characterise them. And I don't agree with
>your equating them to Nazis.
>

One similarity (probably the only) only point of commonality between the Third Reich and the Confederate States of America: displaying their symbols can get you into some trouble. Right or wrong, trouble is trouble.

In reality, the Red Star, Rising Sun, and Crescent should be on that list, too, if shear body count is any criteria.

>>I don't consider Confederate generals as "...mad leaders",
>>as you choose to characterise them. And I don't agree with
>>your equating them to Nazis.
>>
>
>One similarity (probably the only) only point of
>commonality between the Third Reich and the Confederate
>States of America: displaying their symbols can get you into
>some trouble. Right or wrong, trouble is trouble.
>
>In reality, the Red Star, Rising Sun, and Crescent should be
>on that list, too, if shear body count is any criteria.

I could point sometthing out here, but I'd probably best not.

Currell wrote:

>I don't consider Confederate generals as "...mad leaders",
>as you choose to characterise them. And I don't agree with
>your equating them to Nazis.

What follows is an expansion of my opinions. NOTE: Opinions.

I don't consider the Secessionist *leaders* were "mad" or equate them to the NAZI *leaders*. I didn't say that. The tragic loss of life that resulted from testing the idea of Secession was not the result of madness, but of considered, sane beliefs, on both sides.

What I did, or tried to, say is that there are some who feel hatred and anger against ANYTHING to do with either. Too often, IMHO, they stretch that anger and hatred to include every Johann (or Beauregard, for the extremist haters of everything to do with the CSA) who served what they believed was loyally and patriotically for their 'nations.'

BTW, My wife is a South Carolinian. I grew up in Brooklyn, NY, and had several neighbors who still bore concentration camp tatoos. I have NO sympathy for the psychopathic horrors that *some* para-military elements of Hitler's regime indulged in!

However, the 3rd Reich's main, *traditional* military, air and naval forces were - almost invariably - NOT involved in the atrocities. To equate common service people and their equipment with the most viciously fiendish of their nation's leaders seems a bit much. I trust you don't do that, and I think we'd agree there are some among us who do.

To change history for anyone's personal comfort is, IMHO, risky: it may hide necessary knowledge of the horrors of the past. Without facing those - and studying how they came to happen - we choose to risk what Georges Santayana predicts.

Pretending that the conventional forces did not share that one icon with the "unconventional" monsters is, IMHO, also distorting history. Distorting historic truths can lead to distorted understandings of history.

I understand the lifelong and intense hatred that several of my neighbors felt to anything German - their lives had been too deeply scarred to "get over it." One can't, you know, get over such experiences...

But the cold, dry history shows that Germans fought very well, with excellent and interesting equipment during those years. That the 'interesting' aspect is still among us can be seen by the lasting popularity of models resembling Ju-87s, FW-190s, etc. And, I don't think they are popular *because of* the NAZI state which built them.

For those who cannot bear to see the Hakenkreuz, remember that most Ju-87s used in the European and Balkan areas were camouflaged with much dark, dark green, alone or with a more olive shade. Hide the swastika in the dark,dark green, or don't bother with it - it won't show, anyway. But, please, let's face the idea that it was there?

Don's hobby shop in downtown Beaumont is still going strong. He was closed the day I was down there, but he has photos of some of his Stukas on the walls and as I recall there is one of the black ones hanging in the shop, neat place!

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-06 AT 12:00 PM (CST)
 
Deletion of repeated message.

Don didn't pull out low in the contest. He flew several demo flights where he would pull out low and then touch down within half a lap. He never pulled out with his wheels on the ground - another one of Mr Moultons fantasies. Sorry to drag you all back to the subject.

My opinion, good, interesting paint schemes for Stuka's can be hard to find. For the ones from Germany, you basically what ever scheme you wanted as long as it is the two tone splinter scheme. The Germans frowned on individual markings and the like. Unlike the Allies where you could put just about anything you wanted it seems.

True there were some variations like in North Africa where you got some tan ones. There were a group of three that had sharks mouths on them. Of course the snake plane like I got now.

I have about all the in print books and a few out of print books and I have to admit that I have trouble sometimes coming up with an appealing paint scheme. At least for a stunter.

Good luck. I would be interested to see what you come up with. Let me know what you plan to do.

I am sorry though, I do not have any web sites to go too. You would think that if anyone would, I would.

>My opinion, good, interesting paint schemes for Stuka's can
>be hard to find. For the ones from Germany, you basically
>what ever scheme you wanted as long as it is the two tone
>splinter scheme. The Germans frowned on individual markings
>and the like. Unlike the Allies where you could put just
>about anything you wanted it seems.

Hmm.. Was that the case? Personal markings, perhaps not, but it seems to me that there were innumerable different color schemes for the Bf/Me-109 compared to the two different patterns allowed at any given time for Fighter Command's Hurricanes and Spitfires. It seems like every Jagdgeschwader (or maybe even each Staffel) was allowed its own paint scheme.. Not only that, they're plastered with shields and other heraldry. The only way you could tell two Spitfires apart was the letters on the side.

So, you don't want to put German Markings on a Stuka?

God knows why, but OK, here you go.

Try this:

Stuka JU 87 D captured by RAF 112 Sqn sometime in 1942.

Or use one of the Hungarian or British schemes below.

http://mmpbooks.biz/books/8389450178/ju%2087%20web.pdf

Enjoy,

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-06 AT 10:42 PM (CST)
 

I used the top hungarian scheme once. That was different. Easy markings too. One thing about this one is that it had "fuzzy" edges so I could just freehand the scheme with an airbrush. A lot less masking.

>Hi all
>
>Starting on my RSM Stuka kit soon, part of winter projects,
>looking for colour schemes, markings, dont like swastikas
>Don Stills original had a second version in white with
>USA insignia?
>Any suggestions please?
>or where to see some please?
>
>Vincent

Hello vincent I see Don on a regular basis I you want I can give you his phone number he will not mind I promise he will be please to help you out.

Here is a picture Curell sent me. It is of the cover of the magazine that he just got. This is the first time I have actually seen the red, white, and blue version of Don's plane.

Matt

THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES

I NOW HAVE ENOUGH TO WORK WITH

I CANT FLY WELL ENOUGH FOR A TOP FINISH JOB

I FINISH WELL ENOUGH TO DO JUSTICE TO THE PHOTOS

I HAVE THE MOST FUN FROM THIS SPORT OF OURS

Did anyone here actually see Still fly?

The Jan '61 Aeromodeller article says that after the Worlds in Hungary, Don and Bob Palmer "...put on a fantastic duet of formation flying and in solo performance. Don surprised everyone by pulling out of wingovers with his wheels on the ground, keeping them there for half the circuit and then repeating the performance over and over".

Surely this is exaggeration...

The article also mentions trick LG on the Stuka..."A clever feature of the model is the way in which the spring undercarriage and the balsa legs attached to it are free to pivot inside pattern leather fillets cemented to the fuselage". This enabled, again according to the article, "...Don to put it on the ground and hold it there with the powerful elevator and flap combination, each of which travel through 45 degrees either side of neutral".

Why is everyone so afraid of the swastika?

Yes, I know: some despicable, low-life types have adopted it as one of their symbols today...but this particular fin marking is authentic and representative of an actual period in history. To shun its use for fear of offending anyone is ludicrous!

Reluctance to display the swastika (an ancient symbol still in use by those in India and other cultures) on a "sorta-scale" Stuka or other model aircraft reeks of "political correctness"---an abhorrant practice which, sadly, rules our culture today.

There is a great deal of difference between creating an authentic reproduction of an aircraft and a political philosophy. I personally do not know anyone who subscribes to the political teachings associated with the swastika, yet they--and I--feel robbed of the opportunity to create authentic reproductions of aircraft without being subjected to the wailing and finger-pointing from those with their heads in the sand.

Well? Someone had to say it.

(Okay...bring it on, folks.)

>Why is everyone so afraid of the swastika?
>
>Yes, I know: some despicable, low-life types have adopted it
>as one of their symbols today...but this particular fin
>marking is authentic and representative of an actual period
>in history. To shun its use for fear of offending anyone is
>ludicrous!
>
>Reluctance to display the swastika (an ancient symbol still
>in use by those in India and other cultures) on a
>"sorta-scale" Stuka or other model aircraft reeks of
>"political correctness"---an abhorrant practice which,
>sadly, rules our culture today.
>
>There is a great deal of difference between creating an
>authentic reproduction of an aircraft and a political
>philosophy. I personally do not know anyone who subscribes
>to the political teachings associated with the swastika, yet
>they--and I--feel robbed of the opportunity to create
>authentic reproductions of aircraft without being subjected
>to the wailing and finger-pointing from those with their
>heads in the sand.
>
>Well? Someone had to say it.
>
>(Okay...bring it on, folks.)
>
>Mike Keville
>Tucson

A-M-E-N!!!!
Perfectly said, you rock dude.

Thanks, John. I was kind of hoping someone would agree with that.

MIke,

I fully agree, one cannot change history by being politically correct. However there are enough demagogs that have tried and are still trying.

>...there are enough demagogs that have tried and are still trying.
===================================================================

And they're afraid of WHAT? Does a simple symbol frighten them so much that they want us to pretend it doesn't exist?

Just another absurd "politically correct" move by the lunatic fringe.

>>...there are enough demagogs that have tried and are still trying.
>===================================================================
>
>And they're afraid of WHAT? Does a simple symbol frighten
>them so much that they want us to pretend it doesn't exist?
>
>Just another absurd "politically correct" move by the
>lunatic fringe.
>
>Mike Keville
>Tucson

I'd like to know that myself.
Mike, and for saying that next we are going to be attacked by the Martians, the Klingons and/or the Highway Patrol and heaven only knows what else.
Keep speaking the truth bro...

>Keep speaking the truth bro...
==================================
As much as I appreciate your support, I'd be a little hard-pressed to call my opinions "the truth", for that's all they are: opinions.

...but if recent e-mails are any indication, a lot of people seem to agree with them.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-06 AT 08:08 PM (CST)
 
>>Keep speaking the truth bro...
>==================================
>As much as I appreciate your support, I'd be a little
>hard-pressed to call my opinions "the truth", for that's all
>they are: opinions.
>
>...but if recent e-mails are any indication, a lot of people
>seem to agree with them.
>
>Mike Keville
>Tucson

I wouldn't.
If they can present any valid factual evidence to contradict you- let them do so, I strongly suspect they can't.
A correct opinion is always based upon direct observation and logic.
There was once a famous astronomer who defied the doctrine of the Church and declared that the Earth revolved around the Sun. This made him highly unpopular with the Vatican. Today science declares him correct and the Church wrong- so if you want to follow him, go there, otherwise just be PC.

What I meant was: private e-mails are arriving in great number here, all of which (so far) agree with the fact that displaying the swastika symbol on a model aircraft has absolutely nothing to do with political opinion.

The idea that a small minority of crackpots and rabble-rousers are permitted to ban its use on Precision Aerobatics aircraft is absurd.

Use the Finnish Swastika. It's baby blue...how dangerous could that be? They fought the Soviets, and they got (I think) 15 bf-109's from Nazi Germany. The fuel tanks weren't even full. No, it wouldn't be authentic for a Stuka, because the Finns didn't get any.

The Swastika symbol is said to be at least 10,000 years old. No reason the evil use of it for a mere 20 years should taint it forever. IMO. You might consider a "Reno Racer" paint scheme, tho on that model, it would really suck. It won't fly any better. Steve

Mike,
The trouble with political correctness is that it is fashionable and changes from day to day. I spell that 'hypocracy'.

Hasn't anyone noticed that the Finish swastika is different to the Nasty one?

I'd like to know that myself.
Mike, and for saying that next we are going to be attacked by the Martians, the Klingons and/or the Highway Patrol and heaven only knows what else.
Keep speaking the truth bro...

I would NEVER build a plane with the Highway Patrol logo! Think of the people that would be rightfully offended.

Mike,
Thanks for saying it.
History is history, and while no reasonable person around would adopt the political philosophies of the Nazi Party, it was a very real situation that put the entire world into turmoil.
To ignore the symbol and the history that is attached is, in your words "ludicrous".
Those who are determined to ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Like it or not there were big strides made in aerodynamics and powerplants during this time and many of them under the direction of Germany. To ignore those accomplishments because of the insanity of the political leaders in power is unreasonable when viewed from a historical point of view.

Many of the aircraft developed and used by Germany were at the top of the art and deserve to be modeled in the form in which they were used. Forget the political overtones...they are dead and buried.

Personally I'm "sick to death" of a society that is willing to lie constantly to be "politically correct".

LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-06 AT 11:03 AM (CST)
 
>Like it or not there were big strides made in aerodynamics and powerplants during this time
>and many of them under the direction of Germany.

Yes. Alexander Lippisch, Kurt Tank, The Horten Brothers, Junkers, Heinkel, and many others pushed the understanding of aerodynamics and its technology forward, not only in military applications, but gliding, from which their advantages originated. Never before or since has the quest for aeronautical perfection been so intense and fruitful, although post-war U.S. work ranks high. The extent that any of these knew of the political or humanitarian consequences of their work will probably never be known, but the laws of nature are not political, and their participation was no different than ours for our own country. Many of their creations had great, if also lethal, beauty and effectiveness.

Although known as a fiery intellectual and technological leader, Lippisch, for example, was generous and findly in his dealings with youth and aircraft engineers worldwide. He was a great modeler and believer in model aeronautics. He finished his life in Iowa, after playing a key role in helping NASA and Convair develop his delta wing.

SK

>...reeks of "political correctness"---an abhorrant practice which, sadly, rules our culture today.

Mike, I agree with almost everything you have said here - certainly the main theme. However, I'm not sure that the above is a valid characterization.

There IS too much concern for PC, but the overall problems are greater. My greater concern is that symbols and phrases have been hijacked from the language by certain dominant special interests to corrupt their meaning or remove them from use by those who disagree with them. I will not give examples (there are several high-profile abuses), due to "POLITICAL SENSITIVITY" on this forum and a fast held belief by several of its members, whom I otherwise admire, that their beliefs are so infallible that no sane person could disagree. Well, I disagree with them (no claims to sanity here!), but will not argue politics on a model plane forum. Some "political correctness" is valid and beneficial. Other PC is simply sloganeering, a means of shutting off dialogue, or removing accountability. Some is just a method some folks have of feeling worthwhile; their tactics and results, however, are no worse than those of their "opposition". I could do without either, since to me they are equally menacing. One problem is that certain policies often characterized as being simply "politically correct" are not at all politically or otherwise correct, while some are valid for completely different reasons. It's all too complex for the simplistic "solutions" suggested by many, but that doesn't mean that we should give up on being sensitive to people and the very real dire condition of this planet and its population. We need to seriously examine ISSUES, rather than groups and simple symptoms (I'm sure no one needs reminding of the recent PAMPA war, and its continuance, to see the harm that results). Sloganeering and semantics have taken over instead. It's just easier to manipulate the language.

Yes, I agree that authenticity of symbols painted on planes, like the planes themselves, are and should be a free avenue of expression and preservation of history. We can all be sensitive of folks who have suffered, at the hands of those who commandeered those symbols, but we cannot afford to ignore history either. Finally, on any side of any war, there have been good people. Whether or not to model a plane of any vintage or nationality is in the perview of the modeler. Where I live most of us believe in civil liberties and the freedoms for which so many have sacrificed. The problem is that too many want to throw these away. I wouldn't start here or anywhere, including model aviation!

SK

Well said, Serge.

Hi Mike,
I agree with you that the PC crowd has their heads buried somewhere,
but I don't think it's in the sand.

cheers,
Ken

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

http://www.silk-n-dope.com

LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-06 AT 04:40 AM (CST)
 
I wouldn't mind building one of the Bunting Bros V-1's but the problem I have with it is more personal - as my late parents lived in London during the war and remember being terrified by the bl**dy things!

I was thinking of circumventing this by modifying it to represent the piloted version that was never used in anger:

[photo not recovered: Fi103Rtops.jpg]

http://greyfalcon.us/reichenberg2.bmp

[photo not recovered: reichenberg3.jpg]

Tony

PS Larry Richards who kits this will cut me one but not ship outside of the US due to some bad experiences - any of you kind gentleman willing to let Larry ship it to you and then forward it on to me in the UK?

>I wouldn't mind building one of the Bunting Bros V-1's but
>the problem I have with it is more personal - as my late
>parents lived in London during the war and remember being
>terrified by the bl**dy things!
>
>I was thinking of circumventing this by modifying it to
>represent the piloted version that was never used in anger:
>
>[photo not recovered: Fi103Rtops.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://greyfalcon.us/reichenberg2.bmp
>
>[photo not recovered: reichenberg3.jpg]
>
>
>
>Tony
>
>PS Larry Richards who kits this will cut me one but not ship
>outside of the US due to some bad experiences - any of you
>kind gentleman willing to let Larry ship it to you and then
>forward it on to me in the UK?

Progress is our most important problem

5,000 units were shipped to England in 1944/45, but only half arrived. So if you need one, order two.

But the wolf packs aren't out there anymore!

>But the wolf packs aren't out there anymore!
>
>don Burke
>Menifee, CA

Progress is our most important problem

V-1's were not interdicted by submarines !!!
Anti-aircraft artillery, barrage balloons, Spitfires, and Thunderbolts.

Who would want to model an airplane that averaged one takeoff and zero landings?

Hmmmm....
I think every one of them made a landing.... Just not one qnyone would walk away from.

They did make some piloted versions for testing purposes. I think these were recovered and used several times in testing. Can't remember how they were recovered...maybe belly landing in sand and water.

I used to have a book that had a lot of details on the various types that were built but it went away a long time ago in a move...so did my memory!

Full history is in "Warplanes of the Third Reich" by William Greene.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-26-06 AT 07:27 PM (CST)
 
The piloted version was the Fieseler Fi 103 Re 4 "Reichenberg". There was also a two seat trainer, the Re 3. The idea was to use them as piloted bombs against shipping, the pilot to bail out at the latest possible moment. Survival rate was not expected to be high, and when you consider the smallness of the cockpit and the location of the pulse jet then I would say survival was almost nill (A test pilot actually did bail out of one and survived). Hitler rejected the idea but a fanatical group persisted with the design.

Hanna Reitsch test flew them and reached speeds up to 528 mph in dives. It was also reported to have very good handling characteristics expect for the rudder, which was too sensitive. A total of 175 were built, and as far as I can ascertain none were ever used, both Hitler and Milch rejected the plan as inhumane if you can believe that. Basically it was the German equivalent of the Japanese Ohka, the exception being the pilot was allowed to bail out.

The best reference source to date is V-Missiles of the Third Reich by Holsken, published by Monogram.

This book details the plan to tow V2 missiles in concrete silos (with flooding chambers to make them sit upright) behind U-boats to the coast of America. Major US cities were to be targeted, something I never knew. U-boats type XXI could tow three silos at a time. The whole project was dubbed Operation Life Vest. Only a single towing silo was completed before the end of the war.

>V-1's were not interdicted by submarines !!!
>Anti-aircraft artillery, barrage balloons, Spitfires, and
>Thunderbolts.
>

And Typhoons, Tempests, and Meteors.

>>But the wolf packs aren't out there anymore!
>>
>>don Burke
>>Menifee, CA
>
>Progress is our most important
>problem
>
>V-1's were not interdicted by submarines !!!
>Anti-aircraft artillery, barrage balloons, Spitfires, and
>Thunderbolts.

I think he was referring to the KITS, which got lost getting sent to Britain.

Hmmm.. Didn't realize they made those. Might've worked a little better than the "Ohkra"s...

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-06 AT 07:25 PM (CST)
 
>Hi all
>
>Starting on my RSM Stuka kit soon, part of winter projects,
>looking for colour schemes, markings, dont like swastikas
>Don Stills original had a second version in white with
>USA insignia?
>Any suggestions please?
>or where to see some please?
>
>Vincent

Hello Vincent, I dont mind swastikas but I am greatly repulsed by what they stood for. I do have them on my Ambroid Stuka and nobody has ever expressed any resentment towards it. However, if someone were to be offended by it. I would apologize and explain that its just a toy airplane made to reflect an era in aviation history. And that I do not, in any way, shape or form, subscribe to the nazi way of thinking.

Why no do what the German C/L fliers do: Eliminate the swastika.

>Why no do what the German C/L fliers do: Eliminate the
>swastika.

They HAVE to, it's illegal in Germany to display one in any form.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-06 AT 09:16 PM (CST)
 
>They HAVE to, it's illegal in Germany to display one in any form

Probably will be soon here as well, ditto for the Confederate flag. Possibly already prohibited in some locales or colleges-you know those bastions of free speech.
Kudo's to Mike K. for his thoughts on historical revision/PC denial.
Three thoughts:
1. In WWII we were horribly insensitive to our enemies.
2. We won WWII
3. We ain't won TWAT(the war against terrorism)and need to take the gloves off to do so.
To stay out of the political and keep this post legit, I vote for a winter camo scheme with any national markings. Surely Uncle Joes folks must have captured some Stukas and they did a nasty dirty white, supposedly whitewash applied with a mop. Use a light grey for undersurfaces. The red stars really make it stand out. I did a Lagg in this scheme once and really liked it. Will search for pics.
Jim

No luck-best I could do was 51 bytes and the quality was so bad that it was meaningless.

I just wonder, if the p/c aclu would come after me if I painted the 10 comandments on my Sterling Mustang? Note,"just wondering".

>I just wonder, if the p/c aclu would come after me if I
>painted the 10 comandments on my Sterling Mustang?
>Note,"just wondering".

So as you stand there with control handle in one hand,..large wooden staff in the other hand you could quote from the that little known movie "Moses was my copilot" and say "Let my Mustang GO" in your best Charlten Heston voice of course.

I've had second thoughts. Tho the Finnish (reverse rotation and baby blue) swastika would be my choice. Oh, before I forget it, could somebody post an image of the Latvian swastika? I'm wondering which direction it "rotates". Anyway, I think Vincent should just replace the swastikas on the rudder with nice green shamrocks....4 leaf clovers. Put little arrows around the perimiter, showing the route. It would actually look pretty cool. Might get a giggle from a judge, sometime. Gotta be worth a point or two during the flight! Steve