AMA dues

Just a question or two, why should a non-profit organization have a bank account with $10 million dollars in it? Why should the controll line people be paying for RC accidents? As soon as PAMPA starts selling insurance, I am so there.

Like any insurance scheme, the idea is to have a lot of people pay in a small amount of money in exchange for the "insurance" that if something happens that costs a lot of money(which they don't have) they will be covered. In our case the risk is having an accident and getting sued for hundred's of thousands of dollars. I can't afford it and neither can you. Is your house, car, and retirement fund worth $50 a year to protect?

If PAMPA tried to offer insurance it would probably start at $1000.00 a year, and go up every year. With only 1500 members, each would have to pay about $1500 just to cover one large claim.

I'll take AMA.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-02 AT 01:11 PM (CDT)

ferocious, I believe you are blurring the facts. I think you are confusing the bank money with the insurance. Besides, these insurance things are hardly so direct as you are claiming. Insurance is about odds, not about direct paying in and paying out. This is especially true with something like ours (as compared to wasteful full-coverage medical insurance) that might or might not have a large claim in any given year. The company knows this and spreads the risk around its various lines of insurance while basing the rates paid upon what it knows about the risk during the policy period. The way you put insurance makes it sound more like the socialistic spread-the-burden scheme some people seem to think it is supposed to be. The speculation regarding PAMPA is not correct. That is just not how insurance works. This man's guess is that they could come up with insurance at a reasonable price but probably not competitive with AMA which has such a large number of members. PAMPA already shows the signs of keeping secrets so I am not sure how it would go anyway. Remember that we are members of AMA, not donors or just purchasers of a product. We should have a right to information regarding where the money goes. But, the fellow who asked this question is apparently not allowed to ask such a question since the AMA can do no wrong! So I guess it does not matter.

I believe that they are keeping the information on the insurance claims secret for many reasons but mainly because they know that if it came out, some groups would be obviously more dangerous than others and there would be a fight! I don't want to pay to insure giant scale RC planes. I don't know if the numbers are bad or not but the risk of a terrible one-time event is sure great. Use your imaginiation. Imagine the issues that a man could dredge up if he had the numbers. Might not be too good for us either, who knows?

I cant imagine that AMA acts as thier own underwriter. That would insane as one multi-million dollar settlement would wipe out the organization. AMA must collect dues and purchases insurance through an underwriter. The get a good rate since they have a large membership for coverage, i.e. cheaper when you buy in bulk!
Brian

Some of my information is a couple / three years old, but from listening (after, once or twice, asking) I understand that our AMA co-insures quite a bit, and that this significantly reduces the outlay to underwriters.

This means that when uninsured "Joe Bellcrank" has to get 100 stitches to reattach his finger because "only sissies" use starters, our AMA assesses the claim and, to a large extent, determines what percent of it to pay and what to forward to the carrier (s). This is both logical and economical as almost any claims drive the cost of insurance up...

Take a look around and xoom into the real world. Hospital costs have risen, according to CNN within the last week, at about 20 TIMES the inflation rate! Health care plans for a family of four run in excess of $2K per month!

Our AMA does a terrific job of controling costs.... speak to a VP or other member of the EC at a show or other modeling event. Most of the statements that are made about the organization are either dead wrong or sour grapes using half truths.

See Ya

Don't know if that is correct or not. But in the terms of Fred Gwynn, that was a thoughtful, lucid reply. The numbers, if broken down by category, probably change greatly each year. One death case, in any model category, will skew insurance experience modifiers, generally affecting rates for three years.

>I believe that they are keeping the information on the
>insurance claims secret for many reasons...

They are doing it because of lawyers.

Dave Brown said as much recently in an MA editorial,
the lawyers usually insist the details of settlements
be kept confidential.

You may recall that I carelessly stuck my left hand into a spinning APC 9 x 5 which called for a trip to the emergency room and 11 stitches. So far I have seen over $3000 in charges for really a pretty minor accident.

When I was a small child, there was an article in LOOK magazine about the 12 richest men in America. Eight of them were in the insurance business. Interesting!

The AMA is for all of model aviation, and I like the idea that I can shift from one part of the hobby to another without having to change the character of my membership.

>PAMPA already shows the signs
>of keeping secrets ....

Floyd C.

Up to now it has been easy to ignore most of your statements. But this is one that I find difficult to let pass. With all of your wisdom and insight, you state that "PAMPA already shows signs of keeping secrets...". I am sure that the PAMPA officers would like to know what these secrets are or whatever these "signs" are. As a PAMPA member for some time, I would like to know what these secrets are.

Also, unless you have recently joined PAMPA or you are using a different name for posting in these forums, I cannot find any Floyd C. from Pennsylvania in the PAMPA membership list. If you are not a member of PAMPA, I would find it extremely interesting what you base your statement on. I would also be interested in why you made such a statement if you indeed have no facts to back it up whether you are a member of PAMPA or not. Contrary to what some people may want to believe, there are no smoke filled rooms where some secret PAMPA cabal is conjuring up some scheme that would somehow benefit some select group of control line aerobatics enthusiasts.

You brought up the subject of "PAMPA keeping secrets". Now it would be appropriate for you to explain that statement. If there are facts to back your statement up, then the problem should be corrected. If you do not have facts to back the statement you made, then you are maliciously casting aspersions on the PAMPA leadership for no reason, causing doubt among those who are not familiar with how PAMPA is run or what is the purpose of PAMPA. And if you are not a member of PAMPA, why would you even bother to make such a statement?

Keith, it's called Trolling. He shows up, makes a derogatory statement then sits back and enjoys himself as everyone else goes nuts.

Ignore him and with any luck, he'll go someplace else and start waisting thier bandwidth.

Thanks, Keith for your comments. I have warned Floyd C before, and let that comment go. Maybe I shouldn't have since it was aimed at the organization.

I do not want to edit this board as I feel we all ought to be able to make our comments and air our opinions, but I do not want these opinions to be directed at individuals or their work.

This board is intended to be a positive place to ask and answer questions and to share ideas with one another. But I am getting a little low on tolerance with certain comments and may begin to exercise my editorial red pen.

And, yes, I can and will lock out any individual who refuses to abide by the rules. And you do not need to be registered (as Floyd C is not) in order to be locked out. I can do it through your ISP address.

Thant's my job anyway!

See Ya

>Keith, it's called Trolling. He shows up, makes a derogatory
>statement then sits back and enjoys himself as everyone else
>goes nuts.

Note to Floyd - if you are going to troll, at least
try to make your trolls creative and humorous. I have seen
some very creative trolls on usenet.

For example start a thread like "What engine & prop do I
use to get 2.5 sec. lap times with an 80 oz. Twister
on 70 ft. lines?"

Maybe I shouldn't
>have since it was aimed
>at the organization.

>

> But I am getting
>a little low on tolerance
>with certain comments and may
>begin to exercise my editorial
>red pen.
>I can do
>it through your ISP address.
>
>
>Leonard Neumann

The thing with Pampa was discussed on another board just recently. I think you are being a little sensitive if you are going to delete a man's comments just because they are aimed at an organization. Sounds pretty commie to me. Of course, it really is just because you don't like what somebody has to say. Not everything is positive. We are living in that kind of a world. All these organizations act like we are supposed to pay them money then we don't get to know a lot of what is going on. It is not like we are members at all. Please note that I have numerous internet providers between me and virgil. We aren't going away anytime soon. Basically what you are saying leonard is you don't like what a man has to say so you are gong to delete it. In case you didn't notice, I am not a "troll" - in fact I am here everyday providing my comments which some don't like so now let's delete them. By the way, I am registered too. I just can't remember the password. Have a nice day. Floyd

Keith,

Either Floyd lost his evidence, or as is most probably the case, didn't have any to begin with. Maybe he's making a veiled reference to the annual PAMPA executive counsel meetings held at the Nats?

I see these kind of comments regularly on the Linux boards I frequent. Some Microsoft advocate (disguised, of course) will come on and start making inflamatory statements about Linux just to get the locals fired up. Generally, it's best to just ignore them. Eventually, they lose interest and blow away.

Don't know why Floyd C want's to stir things up, but it is probably just because he can.

Randy (there IS one in every crowd)

>Just a question or two, why
>should a non-profit organization have
>a bank account with $10
>million dollars in it?
>Why should the controll line
>people be paying for RC
>accidents? As soon as
>PAMPA starts selling insurance, I
>am so there.

When the far left and tree huggers start coming after your noisy, unenvironmentally friendly hobby that takes up valuable land or the righty condo builders and developers decide "Not in my backyard" you had better hope an organization with a bankroll is ready to fight the good fight for you.

Since buying insurance for our company is one of my jobs, and since renewal just occurred, I will throw my information in here. Casualy/Liability rates (which would be the category under discussion here) have exploded this year. One obvious reason is 9/11 - the buildings alone were reported to be $80+ billon loss, not counting life insurance for nearly 3000 souls, some of whom were well insured; business loss insurance for firms located in the towers and adjacent buildings, that generated big bucks; and various liability and negligence claims that accompany such events.

However, for about 10 years the casualty/liability market has been "soft", a term used by underwriters to indicate the premiums charged have not been commensurate with the assessed risk. The competition for premium dollars was just so fierce that it led to a "buyers market." One way they were covering this was through investments in the upwardly mobile stock market. Well, we know where those investments are now, and combined with the huge loss of 9/11, not to mention a record fire year out west (and losses for that are on-going), the market has suddenly shifted to a "sellers market."

The insurance industry is a "spread the risk" system that seeks to secure premiums from a population that is exposed to some common risk factor with the belief that there will be sufficient resources to pay any claims and have a profit left over. The guys (probably computers now) that figure the "odds" are actuaries. Of course, there is a chance they will over-estimate the events and the investors will make a lot of money; or under-estimate the events and the investors will break-even or lose money. Who are the investors? They run the range from the policy holders (mutual companies) to stockholders (corporations) to wealthy individuals (re-insurance groups like Lloyds of London). And the insurance companies themselves will spread the risks by going to re-insurers to purchase part of the coverage on large risks.

One other observation - the amount of the premium is inversely proportional to the size of the population that shares the common risk. I don't think control line flyers could get independently rated with a population of 2,000 and if they could, I doubt the premium would be very attractive. AMA groups all modelers together, and even though the risks are not exactly homogenous, we probably get a better deal on the premium that we could with a smaller group sharing "only control line airplane" risk.

The other variable in negotiating insurance is deductible, or "how much will you reduce my premium if I pay for the first <blank> $$ of any claim?" I trust our AMA leadership has this part of the negotiation down to an art.

Dear Floyd,

I am going to quote myself, "You have accused many of the model sport flyers of this forum of "playing with toys" and feeling less for it and some sense of guilt of not being truly an adult. I wonder why you must insult those who only disagree with your opinions instead of trying to argue cogently for your position? Personal attacks will not win you any converts or friends. It will only get you the grief you have already experienced. I suggest you start over and give all of us the benefit of your knowledge, experience and wisdom sans the ad hominem slurs and attacks on anyone's intelligence or allegedly questionable parentage. If you are courteous and professional in your missives, I guarantee you will be a lot happier with the discussion as well as the rest who participate in this enjoyable and valuable forum of exchange.

I have a question for you though. If you truly believe that model aviation consists of toys and immature adults, why do you participate and care what the rest of us think or do? If that is what you truly think, I suggest you find a forum that satisfies your interests and avoid offending those that you do not agree with. I wish you well and hope you do not come to ill when you cancel your AMA insurance and go solo. Remember, even if you are not a member of AMA, you still represent model aviation as a whole if you participate in it. Especially if you cause harm."

So, Floyd, tell us who you really are, why we should listen to anything you say, or should we just ignore you and enjoy the meaningful remarks of those who can partake in a rigourous and spirited discourse without the rancor that you seem to desire? By the way, have you resigned from AMA yet? And if you have, how much has your insurance cost you to protect you and Virgil when you wish to fly your "toys"?

>The thing with Pampa was discussed
>on another board just recently.

I don't know what the "thing" is, so cannot comment on this. But just because anything was discussed anywhere on the internet does not mean it is correct information. And if it has been discussed, maybe we don't have to rehash it here.

> I think you are being a little sensitive if
>you are going to delete a man's comments
>just because they are aimed at an organization.

Well, I didn't, so I guess it doesn't matter.

>Sounds pretty commie to me.

Or maybe like setting rules. I have posted the rules before. I reserve the right to delete without notice any posting that is offensive to me or to another. Wild remarks and accusations about an organization that I belong to and whole heartedly approve of fits that category.

>Of course, it really is just because
>you don't like what somebody has to
>say.

It is not what you have to say, but the way you say it. If you defame an individual or use profanity, that is automatic grounds for deletion.

>Not everything is positive. We are
>living in that kind of a world. All
>these organizations act like we are
>supposed to pay them money then we
>don't get to know a lot of what is
>going on. It is not like we are members
>at all.

That is an all-inclusive, uncorroborated statement. Go to the annual PAMPA meeting and ask questions if you don't know what is going on. Or ask your representative. Of course, you don't have to be a member if you don't like the origanization. I am not going to be a member of the party that I don't agree with.

>Please note that I have numerous
>internet providers between me and
>virgil. We aren't going away anytime soon.

Funny, but I don't recall hearing anything from Virgil. If you go away, it will be by your choice (either you decide on your own to do so, or you don't abide by the rules and I will force it upon you.)

>Basically what you are saying
>leonard is you don't like what
>a man has to say so you are gong
>to delete it.

If he says it in the wrong way, Yup! But it is funny, this board has over 25,000 postings on it now, and I can only recall deleting 5 posts other than those that the original poster asked me to delete. And two of them most recently were yours. I try very hard to keep this board going so that I don't have to delete anything. Everyone else seems to be willing to abide by the rules. You are the only one so far who seems to want to challenge me. Of course, you seem to want to challenge everyone.

>In case you didn't notice, I
>am not a "troll" -

Nope, I didn't notice.

>in fact I am here everyday providing
>my comments which some don't like so
>now let's delete them.

We all welcome diverse ideas that are contributed for the well being of all. But when you maliciously put down other people or their ideas or creations, that's when the edit button will be used.

>By the way, I am registered too.
>I just can't remember the password.
>Have a nice day. Floyd
>

I will, Floyd. And, by the way, I have reset your password and e-mailed it to you so that you can change it to whatever you can remember and post as a registered user.

Just be nice and we will welcome your comments. Or...

Obviously, you know very little about litigation. Like it or not, it's the world we live in (and you too, by the way, like it or not). Ya wanna increase your legal exposure during litigation, try making public comments about the case that can be used against you. THEN try to by insurance!!!

LAST EDITED ON Aug-01-02 AT 09:01 PM (CDT)

attaching a tiny elextric motor to his bass boat and dropping a line in the water, Floyd C wrote:

> The
>speculation regarding PAMPA is not
>correct. That is just
>not how insurance works.
>This man's guess is that
>they could come up with
>insurance at a reasonable price
>but probably not competitive with
>AMA which has such a
>large number of members.

I'm not exactly sure what this refers to, but I'm sure "Antnee Meatballs" comment about PAMPA providing insurance were not serious.

For the record, PAMPA has never to my knowledge ever considered and I cannot conceive that we would ever try to supply insurance separate from the AMA. It's beyond my wildest imagination that this would ever happen, nor can I see any way we could get a better deal than the AMA.

>PAMPA already shows the signs
>of keeping secrets so I
>am not sure how it
>would go anyway.

For those not picking through every post in every single forum (i.e. anyone with actual real-world activities), this is an indirect reference to Phil Brown's comment that he was not allowed to attend the PAMPA EC meeting in 1997. This is not the membership meeting, but the private meeting of EC only before hand. My reply to Phil still applies (crossposted from Flitelines, another excellent forum with less hard-core competition fliers, but many interested and interesting parties):

Every item discussed as the EC meeting is recorded, related to the membership meeting attendees, and published in SN.
I would also point out that I was not an EC member, then, but I was completely OK with the procedure.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, that relates to the official conduct of PAMPA - fees, SN topics/content/size, rules, anything - is kept as a secret. I can assure you that all the official topics discussed in the EC meetings I have attended are duly and accurately recorded.
The only reason they are private is to make the open dialog workable, and to speak candidly and frankly with each other without having 100 differing opinions. With 12 people you can have a decent round-table discussion without bogging down in points of order, no way with 100.

If anyone has a problem with the way PAMPA operates, I suggest that you take the matter up with your district representative. It's their job. To my understanding, Floyd C is not a PAMPA members (at any rate, no one with his apparent name), so this is not applicable.

okay, you have me there, i am not currently a pampa member. on another note, I just wanted to repeat what I saw on a sign at the church today "and the Lord said "he who angers you, controls you."" have a nice day!

Hey Floyd, are really Danny Dirt just funnin wit us???

>Hey Floyd, are really Danny Dirt
>just funnin wit us???

Not a chance. The use of the word "wit" doesn't seem to apply here.

>okay, you have me there, i
>am not currently a pampa
>member. on another note,
>I just wanted to repeat
>what I saw on a
>sign at the church today
>"and the Lord said "he
>who angers you, controls you.""
> have a nice day!
>

Dear Floyd,
I am going to quote myself again, "You have accused many of the model sport flyers of this forum of "playing with toys" and feeling less for it and some sense of guilt of not being truly an adult. I wonder why you must insult those who only disagree with your opinions instead of trying to argue cogently for your position? Personal attacks will not win you any converts or friends. It will only get you the grief you have already experienced. I suggest you start over and give all of us the benefit of your knowledge, experience and wisdom sans the ad hominem slurs and attacks on anyone's intelligence or allegedly questionable parentage. If you are courteous and professional in your missives, I guarantee you will be a lot happier with the discussion as well as the rest who participate in this enjoyable and valuable forum of exchange.

I have a question for you though. If you truly believe that model aviation consists of toys and immature adults, why do you participate and care what the rest of us think or do? If that is what you truly think, I suggest you find a forum that satisfies your interests and avoid offending those that you do not agree with. I wish you well and hope you do not come to ill when you cancel your AMA insurance and go solo. Remember, even if you are not a member of AMA, you still represent model aviation as a whole if you participate in it. Especially if you cause harm."

So, Floyd, tell us who you really are, why we should listen to anything you say, or should we just ignore you and enjoy the meaningful remarks of those who can partake in a rigourous and spirited discourse without the rancor that you seem to desire? By the way, have you resigned from AMA yet? And if you have, how much has your insurance cost you to protect you and Virgil when you wish to fly your "toys"?

Yes, you're right. Sorry Dan.

I make it a point to ALWAYS VOTE AGAINST ALL TAX INCREASES AND DUES HIKES! After all, someone has to keep the big boys and deep pocket people honest!....T.Durrill

>I make it a point to
>ALWAYS VOTE AGAINST ALL TAX
>INCREASES AND DUES HIKES!
>After all, someone has to
>keep the big boys and
>deep pocket people honest!....T.Durrill

Not to get into an argument with you, but do you vote against any salary raises offered you as well? Sometimes if we expect more, we also have to give more.

Did I miss the part where it was going to be put for a vote?

See Ya

Good observations and very correct from my viewpoint. For the last few years, many insurers have been going by the standard of of losing 110 percent of premiums on payouts, knowing they will make the difference, plus (often state governed) profit up with investment income. I've been an attorney for insurance companies for the past 7 years, and still am. Even MY car insurance and homeowners jumped 60 percent in the past 4 months. Some, because of 9/11. Most, however, are due to the "aggressive" investment the insurance companies pursued to increase their value/income. Fine, but who really thinks, looking at the p/e ratios and companie's balance sheets that the Dow is worth 10,000 plus. It was a dream world for day traders just waiting to fall. Now, we will all pay for it. Not much you can do. $58 is cheap for what we get.

>I believe that they are keeping
>the information on the insurance
>claims secret for many reasons
>but mainly because they know
>that if it came out,
>some groups would be obviously
>more dangerous than others and
>there would be a fight!
> I don't want to
>pay to insure giant scale
>RC planes. I don't
>know if the numbers are
>bad or not but the
>risk of a terrible one-time
>event is sure great.
>Use your imaginiation. Imagine
>the issues that a man
>could dredge up if he
>had the numbers. Might
>not be too good for
>us either, who knows?

Don't wish too hard - you might not like the results. The one category that has resulted in a 1 million dollar claim in recent years is Control Line. CL is already seen as a fairly "dangerous" part of the sport for a couple reasons:

1) The power line problem.
2) The flying of models in close proximity to the public.

Note that SFA, while it was in operation, did not cover CL flying, because CL flying was "too dangerous".

In our defence, we should note that one million dollar claim does not significant statistics make. In fact, it would be hard to apply statistics to major 3rd party claims in model aviation, because they don't happen very often (thank God!). Most claims are medical - usually self-inflicted (prop bites, which can be serious), or involve models hitting property (usually cars).

Be thankful that the AMA exists, and that CL fliers have a disproportionately large amount of clout within it. Many of the upper echelon leaders, including Dave Brown, were once heavily into CL, even if they're not active CL fliers. Be thankful that certain RC sport flier activists aren't in control of everything. To them, competition is a tiny sideline, CL doesn't exist, and Model Aviation should be all-RC.

>I cant imagine that AMA acts
>as thier own underwriter. That
>would insane as one multi-million
>dollar settlement would wipe out
>the organization. AMA must collect
>dues and purchases insurance through
>an underwriter. The get a
>good rate since they have
>a large membership for coverage,
>i.e. cheaper when you buy
>in bulk!
>Brian

As anyone who has been following the issue in Model Aviation over the years knows, AMA is partially self-insured. They, in essence, have a policy with an insurance company that pays if claims go over a certain amount. In other words, that policy has a large "deductible". AMA has a certain amount put aside every year in the budget, which takes care of a large number of small claims (mostly under the medical coverage - things like prop cuts). Larger claims, which hopefully won't happen, are covered by AMA assets (the land in Muncie, cash in the bank, etc.), and really large claims are handled by the insurance company so AMA doesn't go bankrupt unless the claims in a year are really HUGE.

Why does AMA do things like this? As you would very well know if you had to buy health insurance recently, a policy with a large deductible is a LOT cheaper than one without a deductible. It turns out to be a lot cheaper for AMA to partially self-insure rather than to just buy a policy that covers all claims. In the meantime, the insurance pool that AMA maintains can be used for all sorts of things. Having the flying site in Muncie, for one. Investments to bring in money that would otherwise have to come from dues, for another.

As Dave Brown says, after 9-11, the cost of insurance skyrocketed. So the amount AMA has to pay for the "just in case" policy has gone up. Thus, it makes even more sense for AMA to self-insure.

Leonard,

No offense taken, but you should know that I am retired and on a fixed income! I don't have to decline any salary raises offered to me because THERE AREN'T ANY. People in my position often take a dim view of tax and fee increases, especially with all the corruption we find at every hand. I intend to vote against all such increases in the future in order to form the base of resistance which others may follow.....T.Durrill

Tom,

I know you are into C/L stunt models. You should build a Sassy Saucer (Fox .29 power recommended on the plans). At that point, you will realize that these things have some reality after all!...TD

>Tom,
>
> I
>know you are into C/L
>stunt models. You should
>build a Sassy Saucer (Fox
>.29 power recommended on the
>plans). At that point,
>you will realize that these
>things have some reality after
>all!...TD

And your point is?

And my point is: As an Air Force pilot, you have to know more than you are admitting to or you need to find out about all the very credible reports made by citizens from all walks of life, including county sheriffs, highway patrolmen, local police and commercial and military pilots like yourself. Actually, it would be much more enlightening to you than building a Sassy Saucer (although I have enjoyed the two that I have built). For instance, check this out:

http://detnews.com/history/ufo/ufo.htm

And my point is: As an Air Force pilot, you have to know more than you are admitting to or you need to find out about all the very credible reports made by citizens from all walks of life, including county sheriffs, highway patrolmen, local police and commercial and military pilots like yourself. Actually, it would be much more enlightening to you than building a Sassy Saucer (although I have enjoyed the two that I have built). For instance, check this out:

http://detnews.com/history/ufo/ufo.htm

It seems real strange to me that, in a day and age when everybody and their brother has some type of cam-corder that the number of UFO sightings and pictures has dropped noticably?

See Ya

Al Knight has a theremin... listen to that for a whole and you'll be seeing little green men for sure!

Peabody

All those "credible" people are just that, people. We see what we want to see. Let's face it, any group of intelligent beings from some far, far distant galaxy, with the where with all to zoom over to this far corner of the Milky Way, surely would not stop at this primitve planet and do the things people say that they do. I belive we are a zoo and they just come to watch the hairless monkeys. Think about it. The ability to "fly" across the galaxy and not get ancient in the process, that kind of technology is beyond science fiction. Ergo, they don't exist, except in our twisted imaginations. Let's stick with Star Trek and Star Wars for our entertainment and leave the pilots alone.
As to cops, I have two cousins who were cops. Credible my foot.!!!!!!!

Question, are you on Social Security?

If the answer is yes, you had better send in your letter of non-acceptance for next year's increase in Social Security. Each year the give a small raise, which I'm certain you've declined in the past.

\/ Al's theremin and little green men...

LAST EDITED ON Sep-01-02 AT 06:20 AM (CDT)

>And my point is: As
>an Air Force pilot, you
>have to know more than
>you are admitting to or
>you need to find out
>about all the very credible
>reports made by citizens from
>all walks of life, including
>county sheriffs, highway patrolmen, local
>police and commercial and military
>pilots like yourself. Actually,
>it would be much more
>enlightening to you than building
>a Sassy Saucer (although I
>have enjoyed the two that
>I have built). For instance,
>check this out:
>
>
>
> http://detnews.com/history/ufo/ufo.htm
>
>
> No offense intended, hopefully, none
>taken....TD

I do not know what it is you are attempting here with this Mr. Durrill, but if I remember the original question, it had to do about the AMA, insurance and dues. So, I will make a pact with you, I will stick to the question at hand and you will post your item of interest on the "Trashcan" Forum of RCWatch where it belongs.
Tom McClain

Man, and I thought I was a weird old guy who could turn anything into a fight! Where did this even come from? I will not comment on it. I don't comment on items like this or on things like the political situation as discussed in the "Remember Sept. 11" thread. You never know what's coming, and when it does, you might not want your comments on it archived for all time where somebody can get to them and put your name on a list. Basically I will say I think much of what has been said ont his new topic is small minded wishful thinking on both sides. FLOYD

Gentlemen. I have to jump in here. I am Floyd Carter, aka: "Dr Spark" in CA. "Floyd C." is someone else.

Just in case there might be some confusion among my friends.

Floyd Carter
Los Altos, CA

Tom,
This is too serious an issue to trash. I must decline to participate in the proposed pact......TD

Floyd,
It appears to me you don't have all the facts either. Better get educated up on the subject (reality of the UFO phenomena). The site below will give you something to start with:

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/gulfc.htm

Peabody,

You are dead wrong on this account. You had better start looking into the subject. I think you will be surprised at what is going on in this field. Here is a site that can help you:

http://ufocasebook.com/

TY M.
This is the old argument "it can't be so it isn't." You are baseing your assumptions on our present understanding of science and physics. Do you think George Washington would understand your computer or your TV set if you could show it to him? If you showed these things to the Puritans (1630 Salem, Mass), they would have had you strung up as a witch. A well known scientist said "advanced science is indistinguishable from magic." Could Christopher Columbus have predicted the space shuttle or the 747 passenger plane. SO, how can you, standing on the bank of scientific backwardness as these people did then, dismiss UFO's with a haughty "it can't be (according to my understanding), so it isn't? Rather arrogant, don't you think?......end of sermon.......TD

>Floyd,
>
> It appears to
>me you don't have all
>the facts either. Better
>get educated up on the
>subject (reality of the UFO
>phenomena). The site below
>will give you something to
>start with:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/gulfc.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>TD
Dear Leonard,

Please lock this one down. It has gone off topic and has been hijacked by some who refuse to adhere to common courtesy.

Thanks for the forum.