BAck from Wichita

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-02 AT 09:40 AM (CDT)

Just got back in from Wichita. Had a great time playing combat and Big Goodyear racing although I didn't place in either. Actually I was doing pretty good in combat considering I was just a target tug. Jeff Johnson drug his streamer off on me in the 3rd heat on purpose knocking my points up. No matter, the next guy, Sisos? took my streamer in 2 cuts and just HAD to have the knot too. Took my plane out. There were 5 or 6 heats per round for Four rounds, and just some TREMONDOUS flying from some youths, about 4 of them that just showed no fear and had the reflexes to do it.

Big Goodyear I would have placed if there hadn't been 3 other guys ahead of me with faster planes! HA!

Well, had signed up of Intermediate and PT40 stunt tomorrow, but my wife had a wee fender bender up home and was feeling kinda punk without a car and such nasty feelings, if you've been hit before, you know the feeling. So I came home, not to score Brownee points, but to keep from losing any more of them.

Thanks Marvin and the rest of the Wichihawks, I had a great time and will hopefully get to spend a little more time there next year. Maybe I can trade some of this weekend for the Tulsa event?

Forgot to mention that Catdaddy was one of the guys who took my streamer from me. Met his wife and child and talked for a while, they got a picture or two of the combat goings on. I believe he's using a Ukey for Stunt today.

Bill

There are some of us--and I plead guilty here--who think it more important to score maximum appearance points in the folk dance of life than even flying control line.

To quote a semi-literate Australian Rugby League coach, '...played hard, done good.'

Keep smiling, Geoff

Sunday was BEAUTEEEEEFUL. Started out with very light breeze 2-5 mph, cool and warmed up to upper 80s to low 90s. winds finally got up to where I could do a fair pattern. Grand kids took a second in Jr beginner stunt and the older one took FIRST in Sr-Op beginner. They nor I broke any thing. There were a couple of crashes in stunt but I don't know in what event. Combat on Saturday ran off nicely with few collisions and only one cutaway. The one cutaway occurred in a midair that surgically removed the belcrank from the plane and cut the engine lanyard. The cripled plane's engine kept running , but the plane , without an inboard wing sliced downward slightly outside the 76 foot outer circle and hit at the end of the pit area. No one was hit and no other damage to any surrounding equipment. I was one of the closer ones to the path of the plane and there was only one other person closer. Not even a good scare.( thank goodness)
In stunt on Sunday The usual winners cropped up--- Jim Lee, Mike Pratt, Jim Kraft, the usual bunch. All in all It was a great contest. The Sat evening picnic put on by the Wichihawks and ESPECIALLY their wives for the out of town guests was a COMPLETE success.
Bigiron13

Hey Marvin, let me know where you put in an order for weather like you had on Saturday. I was expecting to get roasted but it was more like the park was air-conditioned. I had a great time and really enjoyed watching the combat matches. Some of those young pups flew very aggressively.

Thats one thing I noticed Saturday. AFter living in Wichita for a year and a half, and visiting a dozen or more time since, Saturday was only the 4th day I've been there that the wind didn't blow.

I had a great time in Wichita! The people there are just great! While BigIron made it clear he did not volunteer to run the combat event he did a first rate job. The only problem was guys waiting to fill their bladder tanks after they went to the circle when they could have done that in the pits and saved a bunch of time.

Sunday I had nothing but engine troubles! I did two engine changes and I hate to say it, but they were all three Fox 35's.
Third engine I took to the practice circle and did the full pattern, landed, refuled, and waited for my 3rd and final attempt. Engine cranked right up, did a fair takeoff and 6 laps, raised my hand to start and got to the entry point of the wing over and the engine died!!! Very frustrating!

Guess I used up all my luck Sat. in Slow Combat. Which is the most exhilarting thing I've ever done with a model plane. I finished 2nd against some pretty good fliers. I never had to face the aggressive youths that were there and that helped. The key to this event, as Jim P said, is surviability.

I had a great time in the circle with Mr. Clean. He truly loves this sport and his attitude in the Slow Combat circle is definetly what this event is all about...FUN. Thanks Mr. Clean you are first rate. I truely hope you get to come to Tulsa and show us how to bust balloons

I'd also like to thank all the people involved with running the Wichita Contest. This was my second time there and I will always return to this event. It's just too much fun and the feast on Sat. night is GREAT. Thanks to the Ladies who made it possible!

See you next year BigIron and Silver Foxx!!!

I'll be posting photos of this event on www.tulsaCL.com very soon.

regards
catdaddy

The Wichita contest was outstanding as usual with a perfect stunt day, overcast, winds at 5 or so on Saturday(Saturday was combat day) and a perfect combat day on Sunday(stunt day)bright sun, warm but not hot, SE winds at 10 going to pretty breezy in the afternoon say 20 or so. 75 mph combat was extremely well run with Marvin and his crew doing an outstanding job. 11 entrys as I recall and very competitive. Carnage was somewhat higher than expected in a no kill event. Several collisions were the result of going for the knot.

The "modified Topeka rules" worked fairly well but could maybe stand some tweaking IMHO. This whole event is on a learing curve I think and ultimately rules will evolve regionally. My only objection to the accumulated point type rules is that you are not actually flying against your opponent in the final analysis but the round robin format is well received. I guess I am curious as to what rules are used in Houston. Perhaps Kiwi will weigh in and provide some insight.

Best solution, again in my opinion, would be round robin format, with the winner advancing through a bracket to the ultimate final two.

In responce to Jim P's comment as to finalists advancing to a "finals", That was the intent at the start of the event, with the final four or six going to a final two or three round flyoff. Unfortunately, delays caused mostly by contestants (some, not all) not being prepared when called into the circle. This was aggrivated also by myself in that I wanted to give EVERY opportunity to the contestants to have a good shot at getting a fair chance to get a good flight. I could have simply started the matches on a "three minute to start" when called into the circle. I chose not to do that and so with the combination of delay causing factors, we ran out of time in the day. Perhaps next year, the combat people who got this event added to this years contest will be available to run it and will do a better job. I GREATLY appreciated the sportsmanship and comradrie exhibited by ALL the contestants. Hope to see you all next year (from the sidelines).
Marvin Denny aka Bigiron13

PS My gratitude goes also to James Seaton, Dee Hill, and my son David for their assistance in judging and scoring. Also to my grand daughter, Sarah, for posting the scores and notifing the contestants of their flying order.

B

>Several collisions were the result of going for the knot.
>
>... My only objection to the accumulated point type rules
>is that you are not actually flying against your opponent
>in the final

>I guess I am curious as to what rules are used in Houston.
>Perhaps Kiwi will weigh in and provide some insight.
>
So far, basically the same scoring as in AMA Slow, with an added chance (or two, depending) not to be eliminated - triple elim on a couple of the contests, but only double when rainy weather (a Houston "gotcha" on contest days) cuts the available time down. And "any plane, any engine, any fuel system, just no faster than 6.8 for two laps." Those rules, however, do nothing to relieve the occasional midair involvements caused by "chasing knots".

>Best solution, again in my opinion, would be round robin
>format, with the winner advancing through a bracket to the
>ultimate final two.

Look, everyone, let's NOT push on standardizing! Let each area have its own rules about everything but the "any plane, any engine" type thing (although I wonder if we should think about putting a dollar amount cap on engine cost?) Jim, you and your bunch in OKC just pick the scoring system you want and go with it. When the old Slow Combat was full of assorted regional rules, it was still fun. Right at the beginning, it was still OK as an AMA event.

Eventually, though, it was a disaster! So let's not let that be the eventual end to SL!

The K.

I saw AMA slow combat die but it wasn't because of rule standardization. What is wrong with being able to go anyplace in the country with the same equiepment and fly under the same rules and scoring. Works for Stunt.. What don't I understand?

LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-02 AT 07:18 PM (CDT)

There seems to be a psychological impetus to those among us who are greatly motivated by the idea of "winning" when an event like Slow Combat is made an official event. The same sort of thing is much less common with regionally varying events, the way Slow Combat had started out.

The AMA rules kept getting pushed and shoved, and the enforcement of various aspects kept being overlooked until we had two events of almost the same expense (Nelson 36's), and with knot-chasing, it was very costly in planes. I can go only on what I saw when AMA Slow began faltering, and it was the massive wreckage that annoyed folks. Slow was truly already dead in Texas quite a long while before there was any shutoff requirement.

I can't say that I understand either the results, or the reasoning being followed that leads those folks down that path. I do know that making something "official" can be its death knell! It's my fervent hope that we can keep SL on the sidelines for a great many years, and as I suggested, maybe even with a $ cap on engine cost.

My son reported from Riverside that there were some $150 DS 40's being used. If something that expensive (comparatively, anyway) became a popular route to SL, the event wouldn't be suitable as an entry level come-on to new modellers!

Kiwi

Understand what you are saying.. I think the 75 MPH speed limit will prevent what happened to slow. If a $40.00 Mecoa 28 will haul your plane around at 75 why in the world would you want to run a $150.00 Double Star. You take the advantage away and the incentive goes away.

It would be neat if the competitor in us didn't constantly seek ways to take advantage of and maybe stretch the rules. AMA slow would still be around and it all would be much more fun

My own opinion as to what killed slow was the fuel shut-off.
I do not think that requirement was well thought through. That and the requirement to purchase a Nelson to compete.

Yup, fuel shutoff killed slow combat, it wasn't the 100-120 mph speeds!

For an intro schmuck like me, when the plane gets close to 75mph, that's almost faster than I've ever gone. Watching some of the folks, and especially those youngsters going at it with their slowed down slow planes, man, no way I can keep up with those speeds, especially to start. I don't think I'm a hack pilot, I can fly a decent pattern, and I've played with racing planes and carrier before, but to jump into something as active on the handle as a Slow Plane at all out speeds, eeash!

What killed or keeps newbies like myself from playing either AMA slow or Fast combat is that to us, the only difference is the name. Neither is and intro event which 75 mph combat is supposed to be.

Having the elimination like we did in Wichita this weekend has the advantage like Catdaddy and my St Joe connection Tom Franklin said was great. The thought that we would travel to a contest and get to FLY more than one round. It gives us a chance to learn something. Ok, my plane was junky enough that all I learned how to do was to haul streamer for other folks. But I also beat some folks into the air thanks to the reliablity of my setup. I'll get something more manueverable soon as I can.

Standardization of events, probably wouldn't hurt, but as soon as you get everyone on the same schedual, those folks that just HAVE to get take the knot too will be ramming folks out of the air again.

Who was it that was suggesting that we all fly Shoestrings? Idea being there that nobody would want to ruin their Shoestring, but I know sooner or later Somebody would say, 'It's just a Shoestring' and blow someone elses pride and joy out of the air.

Fly more, have FUN for a change, and lets just remember to giggle a little bit.

Oh, and stay away from them kids, they're viscious!

I am thinking about a hybred rules package for the next OKC event which will likely be next spring and for a cash pot again.

Use the Wichita rules, which had some things I liked like the first in air bonus and not in air at end of match penalty, keep the rest of the point structure, etc. fly three round robin rounds to determine the top 4. Eveybody gets three flights, Rematch for streamer fouls, etc.

The top four point guys are bracketed and fly for first through 4th, 1 second airtime per point, 100 points per cut, kill and you are dead. DQ for streamer fouls, other no no's etc.

This will take 6 to 8 hours to run with 12 entrys and will likely be the only event except possibly balloon bust due to lack of stunt judges, manpower, and decent stunt facility. Certainly combat and stunt cannot be run in a one day meet.

Comments?

LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-02 AT 07:29 PM (CDT)

Incidentally, Bill Hess' sons, John and Chris, are planning a two- day combat fun fly over labor day (what the heck, if Dallas won't schedule combat any more, then as far as Texas' combat folks are concerned, that's an "open date") weekend, in Kingsbury. That's close to Seguin, site of the 1981 Nats. Dallas used to hold a rather seriously large contest every Labor day, called the Southwesterns. That contest is a mere shadow of itself now.

I haven't seen the site in Kingsbury that the Hesses have used, and now plan to hold their event at. They sorta sprung it on us suddenly. Right now, the guys have told Jeff they think it will be Half-A and SL events on Saturday, plus a "Texas 15" event on Sunday. If John has an eMail address these days, Jeff didn't tell me what it is, so I'll have to find out if there's gonna _BE_ an EMail contaact address for direct info.

The Kiwi

I had a great time meeting all the fellas from the midwest, south and central US. Coming from the Northwest and flying stunt in Toto land was a good experience. I must say the local flyers could have been more helpful about the field turbulance there. I found out the hard way that there is a built in microburst on one circle. My twister slapped into the ground upside down on the third outside loop and made a white streak about 6 feet long on the circle. Oh well, there is always next year and besides this privides another excuse to fly my Lancair 360 to the meet. The total round trip travel time from Bremerton, WA to Witchita and back was 15.1 hours which included strong headwinds to the west and circumnavigating the big storm cells in Kansas on Friday.

For those of you interested in models I will attach a foto of the real thing when I find out how to do it. I need help on this. If that is possible here. This model, Lancair 360 took 6000 hourse to build weighs 1210 lbs, gross is 1850, cruises at 210-230 mph at altitude and climbs off the runway in Bremerton at about 2000 fpm. A real dream to fly and a great experience.

So if you guys are interested in the real thing; it is a great experience and you will be assured of learning many new ideas in building.

I would like to thank all those people who assisted me in flight preparation. Much was learned about profiles. Out here profiles are uncommon. Also the picnic was fantastic. I have seldom seen such a spread on the table. Great food and good company. Thanks for all.

Bob Smiley
a Lancair 360 pilot trying to be a modeler.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-02 AT 04:19 AM (CDT)

Bob,

Sure enjoyed meeting you and your little mishap was a sad event for all of us. Your take apart Twister is really Hi Zoot. If you can email me a JPG of the Lancair I will upload it to one of my web sites and post the URL so everyone can see it.

Would be Great if you could find time to get to the Tulsa contest the end of September. We have a small airport (RL Jones) 5 miles from our flying field.

Bob, sorry about not warning of "clear air turbulance" When we fly in it almost every time that we go out, we get so accustomed to it that we forget that others may not be familiar with the phenominum. We just sorts "accept" it. Sorry we failed to warn you. One of our guys calls it "holes in the air"
Bigiron