Brodak 40

thought there was a thread on this, but can't seem to find it. John brought the first 10 engines they assembled to the Hermitage Pa. CL Fun Fly( Phil Spillman's club)on August 10 and sold all of them. The production motors weigh 195 gr. with muffler bolts. The muffler weighs 49 grams. bolt spacing is FP-LA 40.

Gil Reedy and Phil Spillman immediately put theirs into planes(drops into an FP40 space), a Sig Twister and the prototype Brodak ME 109. The motor is slightly shorter, so you may need a washer under the prop. Both these planes flew OK, but were overweight and marginal up high on the orignal engines(K&B 40, FP40). After a break in tank and 2-3 flights they both were flying very well. A 10/6 seemed a very good match to the B40. By the 5th flight Gil had his 4 stroking very nicely. it would pull strongly, esp. up high. With the OS the plane has always been marginal up high. With the B40 he was able to go to longer lines(64 ft) slow it down to 5.5 laps(about 50 mph) and it still flew better than it ever did on the OS. Just a nice steady run, leaning out(but not speeding up much) in the maneuvers and pulling the plane nicely. The new combo is about 4 ounces lighter(3 engine/muffler, 1 oz. tail weight) and that probably explains a good deal.

If you are looking for a light 40 for a midsize plane this will be hard to beat. I'm sure they will have some teething problems and some individual motors my need some more tuning, but the B40 seems to be right on target for sport and stunt.

Thanks for the update. I talked to Brodaks today and John is in the process of assembling engines to fill orders. I ought to get the ones I ordered next week. We can fill you in more then. And, if anyone else gets running experience, fill us in.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-02 AT 08:31 PM (CDT)

>Thought there was a thread on this, but can't seem to
>find it.

There are less than two months worth of messages that haven't been moved into th archives, and the newest thread at SSW about the new 40 is just over 8 weeks old now. There were other, incidental mentions, and these two with the engine in the subject line:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/1232.html

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/1887.html

.. and something interesting I learned a few minutes ago, about another light weight bushing shaft engine. Jeff is back from Riverside (didn't win or place) and told me that a couple of the California combat folks have started using Double Star engines for SL. I haven't rechecked the import prices for those lately, but I would've thought them slightly expensive for what we hope to think of as an entry level event.

(Later - via the Edit function: I checked the DS 40 prices at Dixon's, and $150 is too much. Way too much!)

Riverside's Fast Combat results:

Richard Stubblefield ("Stubby") - First

2nd - Graves (I didn't get a first name)

3rd - Hill (Steve, I think)

4th - Willcox (Michael)

Kiwi

Look under the Skylarks fun fly thread for the early ideas & photos on the Brodak .40 engines.

That's a fairly light motor. What's he doing, shipping them without pistons?

I had been running a K&B .40 with dikes ring in my Brodak FW190. It performed adequately but not outstandingly. I bought B40 #4 and mounted on the Fw. In so doing I was able to remove 3.43 excess weight viz., the muffler,engine weight, and 1.37oz of tail ballast! There now is a crisp corner in the bird and a remarkable improvement in fuel economy. I had a 4.75 oz tank to acomodate the K&B. after 9 patterns with a full tank I flew for over 12 min.! This engine is a little gem! I am confident that in a few more flying sessions it will be performing as well or better than anything in my stable. John is an easy person to work with. Several years ago I had trouble with one of the early abc K&B.40's. John made good on K&B's warranty and then they refused to make good for him! He paid to have the engine fixed by K&B and it turned out to be a fine engine for JOhn...since it had been used he couldn't sell it for new and so he kept it! This kind of intergity is indeed rare in the business world today. If you need a good stunt .40 you won't go wrong with the Brodak engine, John will see to that! Phil Spillman

Curious. Is this an ABC or ABN or cast iron on cast iron engine? Baffle piston or Schnurle? The 10x6 prop sounds like a Baffle piston preference. Also the 4-2-4. If that was engineered into a schnerle, well then, this is truely the moden era.

Sounds like a great engine and reasonably priced for this market. When's the $125 60 due out? (Just kidding.) We all owe a debt to Carmichaels. (Man that debt keeps growing.)

Dennis - As I recall, it's AAC - that explains the light weight.
Bob

From what John has told me, it is made like the Double Starr 40 (light case) but with the mount and muffler dimensions of an FP, and the timing of his previous K&B 40 (which was heavy). Should be an interesting combination.

Anyone know if there is a separate aluminium liner or is the chrome directly applied to the cylinder/engine case (is that even possible on model engines, I believe Moto Guzzi motorcycles do this, the chrome directly attached to the aluminium cylinder walls). Any other model engines use AAC? Curious.

Sounds as though the Bro40 could be an innovative item in our old time hobby.

I still don't have my shipment of engines, but AAC technology is quite common these days on some of the better engines. Aluminum is considerably lighter than brass and surprisingly (??) aluminum expands at the same rate as aluminum (a little Yogi Berra-ism here) which is what brass does. So, instead of ABC (Aluminum piston, Brass liner, chromed) we have AAC (Aluminum piston, aluminum liner, chromed).

The "hickup" has always been in chroming the aluminum liner and getting it to stick (which is particularly nice on our engines). Since this engine appears to be essentially a redone Double Starr with more power and mount to fit the FP, I am assuming it to have a separate liner.

Separate liner, no key.

Well here it is the end of Thursday and I went out to the field again in preparation for the meet in Detroit this Saturday and Sunday. I just had to fly my FW 190 with the Brodak .40 again! This time I added a Tower .40 head gasket and installed muffler pressure nipple on the manifold. These two changes resulted in a giant leap forward in stunt performance! I was very happy with the results. I flew the bird another 5 patterns and it is just getting better and better as we go. Today I installed another Top Flite 10 X 6 wide blade (old style) prop. It worked quite well. Fuel was 7%nitro, 20% Castor, and 5% synthetic oil. Still getting great fuel economy and power up top in the overhead 8 and the hour glass. Phil Spillman

So I mailed off my order for a Brodak 40 today. Windy says "you'll love it." We shall see.

We did more running on Tom Hampshire's Brodak .40 yesterday. It seems to get smoother every flight. It is one of the most consistent running .40's I've heard. It's fuel efficient and extremely smooth. One thing is evident, though: a good long run-in is a must. We flew it for around 6 flights in a row with minimal time on the ground and the hot starting improved with each flight.
Bob

Yess... I think it's going to be a great straight out of the box stunt engine at a great price. Tom seems to feel the muffler outlet is too small and saw great improvement with a larger hole. I liked the overall performance in Tom's testbed and the break was pleasing and consistent. A far cry from the K&B .40 of several years ago... this is a real stunt motor.

Bob- BTW - Tom's twin boomie thing turns bigger on the oudsides, didja notice?

Al "Is that a grass stain on the glowplug" K