Elevator angle for best "stuntability"

I'm returning to the C/L circle since from what I have seen the R/C types are TOTALLY FULL of themselves...I'm totally tired of that. (I'm still doing R/C, but C/L is looking better EVERY day)

My plans are to build some planes to have a little fun with, but not get real serious. Slated are a Magician 15 with a McCoy .19 RH LB up front spinning an APC 8x6, a Flite Streak with a McCoy .35 RH up front spinning an APC 10x6 and an up-sized Magician (sized up to a ~60" wingspan) with a TT PRO .46 up front spinning an APC 12.25x3.75. All of these models will be built from scratch, per original plans, and all will be built without flaps.

The big question is...about how much throw should I have on the elevator to get optimal results out of each plane? Any other construction ideas/opinions for these three planes would be further appreciated.

Please...don't go "rocket-scientist" on me...keep it simple.

Thanks!

>I'm returning to the C/L circle
>since from what I have
>seen the R/C types are
>TOTALLY FULL of themselves...I'm totally
>tired of that. (I'm still
>doing R/C, but C/L is
>looking better EVERY day)
>
>My plans are to build some
>planes to have a little
>fun with, but not get
>real serious. Slated are
>a Magician 15 with a
>McCoy .19 RH LB up
>front spinning an APC 8x6,
>a Flite Streak with a
>McCoy .35 RH up front
>spinning an APC 10x6 and
>an up-sized Magician (sized up
>to a ~60" wingspan) with
>a TT PRO .46 up
>front spinning an APC 12.25x3.75.
> All of these models
>will be built from scratch,
>per original plans, and all
>will be built without flaps.
>
>
>The big question is...about how much
>throw should I have on
>the elevator to get optimal
>results out of each plane?
> Any other construction ideas/opinions
>for these three planes would
>be further appreciated.
>
>Please...don't go "rocket-scientist" on me...keep it
>simple.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Gene

Unfortunately, it varies from plane to plane, even between examples of the same design, depending where the CG is, etc., and on individual preference. It can be just a few degrees up and down on a Fast Combat plane. Or it might be a good 45 degrees up and down on some profiles.

Gene, try about 25 degrees, not over 30 to start. Then adjust to suit your preferences. Be sure that the motion is eaul up and down. You can also adjust the sensitivity by changing the spacing of the lines at the handle, wider=more sensitive, narrower=less sensitive. Too much throw just stalls the surface.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-02 AT 00:33 AM (CDT)

Wow, Isky posts again! Good to see he's alive and well.

A couple of thoughts on Gene's post. The Mac .19 is pretty big and heavy for a Magician 15. Consider scaling it up to about 350 square inches. The TT .46 version should be around 650 sq. inches and the 60" span sounds too big. Build the controls slow for stunting use. The angle of elevator movement doesn't matter as long as there is enough as you won't use all or most of it anyway, 30 deg would be ok. Use 4" bellcranks (Brodak's is nice and affordable) for slower controls and better control in low tension situations, especially for small models. Provide for elevator horns at least an inch long. Finally, the pre-determined prop selection is a BIG mistake. Experiment! A 9-4 will probably work better on the .19, and a 10-5 on the .35. The 12.25 x 3.75 should be a good match to the TT .46, but still test other props. APC's are excellent, but still try other brands and sizes. It REALLY makes a lot of difference on line tension. Set the speed of the model with the pitch, and rpm with blade area/diameter/number of blades. What about fuel (oil?) and fuel tanks, Gene? Steve

Well Gene, I'm doing the same thing...going back to CL. Not because they're full of themselves, most of the RC guys in my club are nice guys, but because I truly don't get any enjoyment flying RC. And when was the last time you saw an RC guy smiling as he flew?? I haven't been able to fly CL for about 18 months because I've only got a 2 seater sports car and there's no way my stunter can fit in it. But my son has (had) a trailer....

I have a couple of partially built Magician 15's a friend gave me. I've been thinking about finishing them for say an Enya 09. They are, I think, small for a good-flying 09 airplane. For the McCoy 19 I would recommend a Mackey Profile from Flying Models. Can supply plans if you give me an address. I flew one a bunch and really liked it. Used a 9 x 5 APC, Sig Champion 10% nitro fuel.

Thanks for the input guys...it is giving me some food for thought. Keep in mind I'm not flying ANY contests, just wanting to have some fun. I don't care for any of the rocket scientist stuff / spliting hairs, etc., I'm an easy going "just want to have some fun" kinda guy.

Your replies are VERY appreciated!

You sound like my kind of guy. I have found the RC bunch to be about the biggest bunch of goobers around. There's a bunch of RC here who fly right next to an airport and are constantly complaining about the real planes coming into their model field "airspace!" I'm all for a guy to do what he wants with a hobby but this can get out of hand. On the planes, I would not use the APC props. Especially if hand propping which most CL guys seem to do. They are just unpleasant. I know some have said good things about them and no doubt they do pull well but I'd recommend wood props on a CL plane and try many types. Often there is one particular prop that is the sweet prop for a plane, and no other prop will make it fly so well. Do not be afraid to put in lots of control travel. I have often had planes with 40 or 50 degrees. That would tend to be a bit much but properly set up with a handle, you won't use it anyway. Until the day you need to save it. I would start with 30 degrees and make sure the CG is right on. Floyd

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-02 AT 10:08 PM (CDT)

As Floyd said, try different props, as the prop makes a good bit of difference in how the airplane flys.

There is a discussion of elevator angles in the Frank Zaic 1951-52 Model Aeronautic Year Book. Zaic admits he knows nothing about CL, but does some theoretical calculations which suggest that the stab/elevator can stall at relatively small angles of elevator deflection. He thinks this is not a good thing.

I have an All American Jr. Stunt Trainer which originally had about 45 degrees of up. It has a big elevator and I could see the deflection pretty well. With Zaic in mind, I paid attention. With a little control, it would do nice inside loops. A little more and a tighter loop. A little more and the loop gets bigger, a little more and it gets even bigger. Considering that up elevator gives downward lift to rotate the nose up, what I think happens is that with too much deflection, the tail stalls and the downforce drops off, thus giving a larger loop.

After I flew the airplane into the ground a couple of times with full control, I put a stop on the pushrod to limit up to about 20 degrees. It flys much better now. Try 45 degrees deflection and see if you see the same thing I think I did.

Jim Thomerson

Hey, maybe the Bi-Slob guys will comment.

My preference for CL sport flying props are nylon ones, such as the Tornado white props (which, unfortunately, are getting hard to find). Other alternatives would be the Kavan Softprops (Hobby Lobby has these) or the new white Taipans.