Some thoughts on advancing from "Beginner" to "Intermediate"

...some thoughts on advancing from beginner skill class: This has probably all been throughly thrashed before but it seems to me, as a beginner to PA that cannot yet complete the entire pattern, that there is too large a skill step between beginner and intermediate skill levels. We have defined four levels of skill and it seems to me that a smoother progression would encourage more beginners to participate and stay with the sport and move up. I can complete four lump loops and three lump loops etc. but for me hour glasses and four leaf clovers are "airplane killers". I suspect I'm pretty average in this respect. I note that the FAI ranks the difficulty of the four leaf clover as no more difficult than a reverse wing over (k=8)! Do you think more beginners would stay involved and move into the intemediate skill group if a couple of the most difficult maneuvers were omitted? I'd leave the hour glass, the four leaf clover, and perhaps the square eights for the advanced and expert skill classes. I would leave the BOM rule and appearance points in the intermediate skill class to encourage building and finishing your own models. I don't think I need to win in the beginner skill class before moving up to intermediate but the ability to fly all the prescribed maneuvers for that class is important.

You raise some interesting points. Beginners used to fly the full pattern. I placed second in Beginner at my first stunt contest in 1978, flying the comlete pattern. I never flew anything but the complete pattern as a beginner. Back when men were men...YadaYadaYada. OK, so much for that!

I'm reluctant to tamper with the present formula, which seems to work pretty well. A friend who flys Beginner can fly all the pattern maneuvers, but he has never won a Beginner event. Either his equipment fails him, or else he does not fly the Beginner maneuvers that well. In other words, it is quite possible to learn to fly all the full pattern maneuvers while still in the process of learning to fly the Beginner pattern well.

One thing that I have noticed in judging Intermediate: intermediate flyers usually fly their square 8's better than their horizontal 8's, so I'm not sure your analyis of relative difficulty of flying various maneuvers well is correct. Flying and surviving is perhaps another matter.

Thanks for bringing this up. It needs to be rethought periodically.

The Beginner pattern seems to leave out only three maneuvers that you might add in your ideal? (inverted, outside squares and the triangle). You admit that you can do "three lump loops". I'll bet that you're capable of inverted laps, too. The outside square is hard, probably harder for a beginner than square or vertical eights?

My feeling is that the break between Beginner and Intermediate is just about right.... Take a good look at a well filled Intermediate class... you will see "three and four lump loops" as well as hourglasses that appear as another vertical maneuver.

Have fun.

Great subject.. Wished I had some wisdom to add but never flew beginner.. Jumped right in to Intermediate at my first contest. Come to think of it.. was there even a beginners class in 74 ?

I agree with what had already been said, once inverted flight has been accomplished if you put your mind to it the outside square, hourglass and clover can be done in one weekend. (maybe 2 if you don't have a coach) I am not saying they will be good but good enough for a start in Intermediate.

At this level anyone that can fly the full pattern can be your coach..

My thought was that a soon as one can fly all the stunts, they should move up to Intermediate. There is a great sense of accomplishment in doing so.

>My thought was that a soon
>as one can fly all
>the stunts, they should move
>up to Intermediate. There
>is a great sense of
>accomplishment in doing so.
>
>Crist Rigotti
>"A driver trying to be a
>pilot"

I am rather in agreement with this, too. I think there is a great reluctance on the part of some to leave beginner until they have won and won big. But some of the maneuvers are not the same, and this, too, in my opinion, can hold people back.

I would like to see the beginner pattern parallell as much as possible the full pattern with the exception of the vertical and overhead maneuvers (no vertical eight, hourglass, overhead eight or clover). If all the other maneuvers were the same, it would make it much easier to add the last maneuvers to the pattern and move up.

And once you have learned them, yes, move on up to Intermediate and go for it.

There is also Old Time Stunt, which is more than beginner and much less daunting than the full pattern. Once you master a triangle and the outside squares, all the other manuevers are just variations on the three basic shapes. (I made that sound so easy, how come I can't fly it =-( ?

Cause yer a gurl! Boy, now I'm in trouble!

Actually, the stunt pattern is no more than upright and inverted flight and inside and outside loops. Squares and triangles are just really bad round loops, aren't they? It seems to me that if a beginning stunt flyer thinks of it this way, the pattern is much less intimidating to learn to fly (although still extremely challenging to learn to fly well.)

As someone else put it, you need to seperate the risk of crashing from the ability to do the manuever. IMHO there are no manuevers that are so radical that it risks the airplane. With this caveat. The plane must be properly trimmed, well powered and strong on the lines. If these items are present and weather is not a factor. There is no reason to fear crashing as long as you are comfortable flying inverted as upright. As I posted in another thread you also have to have the self control not to push a bad situation and know when to abort a manuever attempt.

The hourglass is not that tough to complete. But to complete well. If you can do a vertical 8 the you just start adding corners to it, adjust the entry and you have a rudimentary hourglass. Outside squares are just plain scary, that is all. If you give your self enough altitude and the plane is capable it is not hard at all. Actually it is one of the easiest manuevers to get the bottoms on consistantly. (As you are turning downward and you have to pull out, else eat the ground.

I think it should stay as is, considering that a UKEY can complete the entire pattern, calling certain manuevers plane killers is more of a metal obstacle than a physical one.

On the other hand because of the mental aspect, it would be less intimidating if the verticals and the cloverleaf were left for later.

I agree with you, I'm three years removed from beginner class, and I use to feel the same. I thought of the idea of a new class, 'Novice' for those who were not really beginners but not competitive intermediate flyers. This would 'water' down the four classes, leave Beginner class for beginners, make the classes more competitive and possibly reduce the ranks of advanced flyers, as it is right now that seems to be were the bulk of PAMPA flyers end up. Right now I'm into my second year of Intermediate and plane to move to Advance in the next upcoming contest, but I guess I don't relish the idea of flying against guys that should, but won't move up into Expert, as this is the last chance for gold for these guys.
Look at a typical golf tourny. theres a doz. of different flights. I think a typical contest could support 5 classes.

Mark Boesen

Having a good coach is one of the most important aspects of the pattern learning process. I've been flying for the last 2 years and have just recently got the pattern. The first step was to get a good engine run with a good airframe. Find an advanced or expert flyer to help. Have fun. (Most important) Plan your flights ahead of time and do it. Have fun. I never really flew the beginner pattern in competition. Flew basic flight to get my feet wet and to get used to everyone watching and judging. Have fun. The last year has been one of remarkable achievements as the pattern came along easy with the right coaching. You would not believe how much you can learn from sitting in the center of the circle when a skilled pilot flys the pattern and goes through the pattern with you.Have fun. Then have that skilled pilot sit in the center of the circle when you fly to coach you. It was so much more relaxing for me to have the assurance of that person out there with me. In competition, I entered intermediate and flew the pattern and left out the square 8, the vertical 8,the hourglass and the clover the first time. Instead of flying the maneuvers I made an attempt by just flying an inside loop in place of the left out maneuvers. It also helps to call out the maneuvers to yourself as you fly.Have fun. You won't get the 25 pattern points but you will get the 10 point mininums for the attempts. As you progress, just add the maneuvers you need to get the full pattern.Have fun. For me the most enjoyable part of flying is to participate and enjoy the company of the other flyers and have fun watching and learning about one of the greatest hobbies there is. A big thanks to Bruce Perry for helping and coaching along the way....Rob, Oh Yeah, Did I mention have fun....

In our area, many times it's one or two entering Beg. and same in Intermediate, so they are frequently combined. The flier is asked before flying what maneuvers he/she wants to leave out, and they get the pattern points if the remaining tricks are done per the book. It's not a bad way to do it. I have not noticed folks staying in a class very long, which makes room for newbies in the lower classes and gives them challenges AND removes pressure as they do not expect to win for awhile. I'm rather surprised by how many fly Expert by choice. I have a couple of theories, but would rather not say. Steve

Oh yeah did I mention that one day I too will figure out the cloverleaf. Everytime I try it I completely blow the sequence of the loops. I really think it is revenge. Like GMA sat down and pondered. What can I come up with at the very end of the pattern to completely blow the pilots mind.

That manuever is so completly screwey I can't even visualize the thing. 10 minutes after studying it on papar the sqeuence vaporizes im my mind.

inside.... Outside.... Outside.... Inside.. Wingover..

Easy...

Thanks all, for the encouragement! Good comments and I think y'all are right: don't mess with something that is working. I have a question about OTS. I have a Brodak "Smoothie" that was built completely per the instructions but in order to repair some minor wing tip damage I "clipped" the wing tips back to the first rib and recovered the wing. I thought that this "mod" would disqualify it from OTS. True? It also has the Brodak adjustable leadouts which I doubt were in the original design. Are these OTS "legal"?

Clipping the wing tips does disqualify it for Old Time Stunt, but it would still be legal for Classic with a loss of some fidelity points.

Adjustable leadouts are legal in Old Time Stunt, as are adjustable weight boxes and even removable landing gear (or wings if you wish). The key is to retain the outside shape. Construction methods may be changed.

Yes, but Ty you don't realize the catch 22 factor flying against me or any other girl. If you win- you beat a girl, if you lose- you got beat by a girl....

>Yes, but Ty you don't realize
>the catch 22 factor flying
>against me or any other
>girl. If you win- you
>beat a girl, if you
>lose- you got beat by
>a girl....
>
>
>Mary

I went golfing once with three other members of our church. I cam in third in that foursome.

I did beat the score of one other player that day.

It was a girl.

It was her first day out.