C/L Safety - A discussion

As many of you may or may not know, swivels are forbidden in any part of the (C/L) control system per the AMA Competition Regulations, Control Line, General, paragraph 5. And, paragraph 4 requires a safety thong. OK, here’s my question. The regulations govern COMPETITION in the United States. So, what happens on the local field? As AMA members, we are covered should there be a mishap leading to injury or property damage. Lets say that someone is flying with swivels and there is a mishap. Or, for that matter, flying without a safety thong. Get my drift? What, if any, influence do the (competition) regulations have over casual/sport flying? A pull test is required to compete. If, in non-contest flying, plane that was not pull tested gets loose, would insurance cover a claim? How about a fly-away where the pilot never got into the circle? Yes, it happens! A few years back, a fellow did not set up a stooge properly and the plane went bye-bye. He never saw it again. Had it done some damage and were it traced back to him, could the insurance carrier mitigate the claim, stating negligence?
I’m starting this thread because I have been around people who do not use safety thongs. I also know of modelers who swear by line swivels and have never had a failure.
If I missed some information relating competition and sport flying, let me know. OK?
Let’s start a discussion and PLEASE, be nice!
Bob

>As many of you may or
>may not know, swivels are
>forbidden in any part of
>the (C/L) control system per
>the AMA Competition Regulations, Control
>Line, General, paragraph 5. And,
>paragraph 4 requires a safety
>thong. OK, here’s my question.
>The regulations govern COMPETITION in
>the United States. So, what
>happens on the local field?
>As AMA members, we are
>covered should there be a
>mishap leading to injury or
>property damage. Lets say that
>someone is flying with swivels
>and there is a mishap.
>Or, for that matter, flying
>without a safety thong. Get
>my drift? What, if any,
>influence do the (competition) regulations
>have over casual/sport flying? A
>pull test is required to
>compete. If, in non-contest flying,
>plane that was not pull
>tested gets loose, would insurance
>cover a claim? How about
>a fly-away where the pilot
>never got into the circle?
>Yes, it happens! A few
>years back, a fellow did
>not set up a stooge
>properly and the plane went
>bye-bye. He never saw it
>again. Had it done some
>damage and were it traced
>back to him, could the
>insurance carrier mitigate the claim,
>stating negligence?
>I’m starting this thread because I
>have been around people who
>do not use safety thongs.
>I also know of modelers
>who swear by line swivels
>and have never had a
>failure.
>If I missed some information relating
>competition and sport flying, let
>me know. OK?
>Let’s start a discussion and PLEASE,
>be nice!

We had this discussion before, and safety code .NE. competition regulations. In fact, the safety code is all that's required. It was also changed (no doubt as a result of the previous discussion) to specify a pull test. Stunt pull test is the default, if you can't figure out what else to do.

As far as I can see, the safety thong is not required for sport flying. It doesn't say anything about swivels, so swivels are allowed, too, as long as they pass the pull test. At least that's my interpretation.

Competition regulations only enter in when trying to figure out what the pull test should be, but apparently in no other way.

I think I would have a hard time thinking up a good reason to not use a thong on every flight. And I would also have a hard time thinking up a reason to use a swivel. But I don't think you can make a safety code/insurance argument against it for sport flying.

Good points, Brett. As a matter of habit/course, we require thongs at our field. The owner (Pa Department of Parks) suggested using every possible safety precaution so we are complying. Nobody has ever shown up with swivels but I remembrer when I was flying in Buffalo, NY in the fifties they were quite common. As I recall, Perfect sold them - bulky brass swivels in little hang packs for 25 cents.
Bob

>Good points, Brett. As a matter
>of habit/course, we require thongs
>at our field. The owner
>(Pa Department of Parks) suggested
>using every possible safety precaution
>so we are complying.

Yeah, most places have something like local rules, and that seem pretty innocuous, if it makes someone feel better, why not.

?Nobody
>has ever shown up with
>swivels but I remembrer when
>I was flying in Buffalo,
>NY in the fifties they
>were quite common. As I
>recall, Perfect sold them -
>bulky brass swivels in little
>hang packs for 25 cents.
>

Claus Maikis showed up with swivels at the 2001 NAT's, I think. Dave Cook gave him some regular connectors.

A modeler showed up here a few years back with swivels in combat. He was unaware of the restriction. He said that he had used those in competition many times and nobody complained. He changed lines for our contest, and said that he would not use them in the future.
Many times people either do not read the "General" section, or misunderstand it.
Bigiron

> A modeler showed up here
>a few years back with
>swivels in combat. He
>was unaware of the restriction.
> He said that he
>had used those in competition
>many times and nobody complained.
> He changed lines for
>our contest, and said that
>he would not use them
>in the future.
> Many times people either
>do not read the "General"
>section, or misunderstand it.

Apparently, it's OK in Germany, too. It wasn't a big deal, just replaced it an went on with business.

Last week at Wichita I was glad I had my thong on, THE SAFETY THONG!!! Really, some of you guys.

Anyways, during combat, after a midair, I had my handle ripped from my hand for maybe the 3rd time in my life. But there was the model at the end of my safety thong doing a nice outside loop. I reached out almost immeadiatly and put it back in my hand and continued to try and correct the situation. Unfortunatly that's when the tail end of the aircraft decided to fall apart and I stuck it in the ground. But it was only 60 feet away from me and not cruising for a bruisin in the pit area.

Now I was not the only person at the contest to use his safety thong either, I saw at least one other person use his, so I'm glad we had it.

As far as using it during a racing event, they told me that the reason that they didn't require them during racing is because it represents a hazard as some of those passes during rat racing have handles and lines scraping over the other guys. A loop dangling over another guys hand at 120 mph in an event that isn't supposed to be full contact oriented, like combat, represents more of a safety hazard than a benefit. Ok, that's what they told me. Anyways, they bring airplanes back more often than the combat people do. I've seen the same airplanes at some contests for a decade.

Swivels? I have a couple packets of them at least that I bought with a box of other stuff, but I gotta wonder, WHY? Why would you need a swivel on your lines? The only time I've kinked my lines is when I've stepped on them or wrapped them around another fliers stuff. Is there some reason I don't see here? Not being accusational, just wanna know. Like someone who's never checked the oil in his car before when he says, "Dipstick?"!

I am not totally certain on this but you can verify with AMA. I believe that if you have an accident where the insurance may be required, that if the pilot was not observing safety regulations, the insurance claim may be rejected.

In any case I agree with my predecessors in this link: Why not do everything you can to keep the sport of model aviation safe? Why give anyone a reason to close up a flying site?

Swivels pull out (I have lost many fish because of them), safety thongs have prevented more damage than they have created, and pull tests are something that we should NEVER be afraid of.

I would encourage everyone to read the rules on safety and adhere to them even if you are sport flying. For those that are not AMA members I would encourage those of us that are to inform them of the safer way to fly.

Have fun and be safe (the two are not mutually exclusive) - Ed